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President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...

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Feredir
Post subject: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Wed 28 Jan , 2009 2:57 pm
 
 
So what are your thoughts on the fact that Pres. Obama spoke to the Muslim nations before he even addressed "Main Street?"

I found it offensive that he would provide a personal interview to a Muslim TV station before he even addressed our nation at large (the Inauguartion does not count). Also, he said to them "we are not your enemies." This sounds all nice but they are the one's who decide who their enemies are, not us. He should have said that they were not "our" enemies. That being said, some of them are our enemies since they want to destroy us.

freddy


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Crucifer
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Wed 28 Jan , 2009 3:20 pm
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Feredir, I suppose it all depends on whether you believe the threat from without is greater than the threat from within. It is no secret that America has lots of enemies, especially in the Arab/Muslim world, who view the US as decadent. Obama has clearly made it a priority to try and reconcile with anti-US elements outside the US. His job as president of the US is not to address the US, but to manage and defend it. IMHO, choosing to break down barriers instead of making yet another speech to the US, which would surely be a repeat of the many speeches he's made over the past year, was a good idea.

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jewelsong
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Wed 28 Jan , 2009 3:25 pm
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I certainly don't find it "offensive" that he spoke to the Muslim nations. And I don't give a fig if he did it "before he addressed Main Street." This was top priority.

The threat of Muslim extremism is one of the most pressing issues facing us, and indeed, the world. It certainly drove the Bush administration after 9/11. I thought it was a good idea for him to take the bull by the horns, so to speak, and meet this head-on. I don't know that any President has addressed the Muslim world directly before, in this fashion.

I think the wording "we are not your enemies" was fine - it seems like you are kind of splitting hairs with your objection to the phrasing. I have been reading Sam Harris' "The End of Faith." It is a disturbing book for many reasons, but what he has to say about Islam and its history are particularly troubling.

" We are not your enemies" seems highly appropriate to me, especially when you know he was speaking to the Muslim world at large, not just in a political context. Many Muslims in the mid-east are simply brought up to believe, unquestioningly, that the West is a de facto enemy. Hearing it said like that might be a good thing.

I also liked the phrase "We will open our hand if you will unclench your fist." The American people love sound bites and this was a good one, I thought. In other words, yes, we know you need help and we are prepared and willing to give it - but first you must end your threatening postures.

We can't end conflict unless we can communicate...I think this is a step towards that.


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Axordil
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Wed 28 Jan , 2009 3:28 pm
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Giving a TV interview is not an "address." Besides: his first Presidential Address was on the Capitol steps, and it was to Main Street--and the world.

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Di of Long Cleeve
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Wed 28 Jan , 2009 4:19 pm
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I found this incredibly encouraging.

I think it incredibly important to make overtures of friendship to the Muslim world. Many of these people are NOT our enemies. I refuse to categorise all Muslims as extremists who only want the downfall of the West: I think that is flat out wrong and not accurate at all. A perceived war between the West and the Muslim world only encourages extremism. And, I would add, it is perfectly possible to criticize the West without seeing it as the 'great Satan'.

I say this as one who is also sympathetic to Israel.

The crazies are out there and they are not going away. I hate al-Quaeda fundamentalism with all my heart. I detest everything the Taliban stand for: I loathe their ugly, misogynistic, violent religion and the way they cynically use that religion. I do not automatically lump all Muslims in with the Taliban's perversion of Islam. The irony is that the West enabled the Taliban to gain power because we ARMED these guys against the Soviet Union, back in 1979 and 1980. :roll:

Britain has a Muslim minority population of about 1 million. It is not in our interests to behave as if our fellow citizens are aliens within our midst. It is not in our interests to cultivate a culture of paranoia which would make another 7/7 possible (God forbid). And yes, of course I am thankful for the vigilance of our intelligence and security services. (And we don't want another needless tragedy like that of poor Charles Menenzes either. :( )

So, yes, I think making friends within the Muslim world is a very important thing. There are those within the Muslim world who will hear and appreciate what President Obama was saying.

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Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Wed 28 Jan , 2009 4:21 pm
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I agree with both JS and Ax. The only way we in the west are going to ever find peace within the Muslim world is to adress those Muslims (99.9%) who are not radical and not in al Queda. President Obama did take the bull by the horns and is appealing to those 99.9% to work with us. We can no longer act as if we live in a vaccuum here in the US, we have made too many enemies (not just the radical Jihad here) and lost too much respect due to the really bad GWB policies.

If President Obama can gain some of that respect back, make less enemies, and put the US back into a real leadership role instead of the biggest bully on the block, I say good on him. If that requires him to address the Muslim world, first, last or in between, good on him.

But then again Ax is right, he first addressed Main Street, the US and the world already.

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vison
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Wed 28 Jan , 2009 5:24 pm
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Feredir wrote:
So what are your thoughts on the fact that Pres. Obama spoke to the Muslim nations before he even addressed "Main Street?"

I found it offensive that he would provide a personal interview to a Muslim TV station before he even addressed our nation at large (the Inauguartion does not count). Also, he said to them "we are not your enemies." This sounds all nice but they are the one's who decide who their enemies are, not us. He should have said that they were not "our" enemies. That being said, some of them are our enemies since they want to destroy us.

freddy
I can understand your point, Freddy, but I disagree pretty wholeheartedly.

Is the US "the enemy" of Islam, of Muslim people? Is that how you want the USA to be perceived? I think Mr. Obama was saying "don't think we hate you, we aren't your enemy".

We all know that there are people around the world, mostly some kind of extremist Muslims, who are "the enemy" of the USA. Those people see the USA as "the enemy" and Mr. Obama was telling them, "we aren't".

They can think as they like, and no doubt they will, but the words and images of him saying "we are not your enemy" are very powerful. Quite different from Mr. Bush standing up like a gunslinger in a western movie and yapping about an Axis of Evil. Words ARE powerful.

In the end, events will prove what events will prove. Except for some weird notion of toughness, what is harmed by friendly talk?

I think Mr. Obama has talked to the American people nonstop for a year. Maybe he felt like a new audience.

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Feredir
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Wed 28 Jan , 2009 6:13 pm
 
 
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with him addressing the Muslim world and I agree there are some things that need to be built. I just think it was at a point too early and should not have been before letting the US know some og his plans. I do NOT believe that all Muslims hate the US and likely most would like to mend fences. I hate what "extremist" Christians have done as I am sure many Muslims feel about extremists in there religion.

This is how I view the "we are not your enemy" comment. Isn't taking the power away from them in determining who they are against?

Yes, candidate Obama has talked with the American people for a year but President Obama has not. He now holds the power of the highest office in the US, I would like to hear how he plans on handling things before he goes and tells others. I can guarantee that now that he has taken office and is privy to intelligence reports he sees things differently than while he was campaigning.




freddy


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Dave_LF
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Wed 28 Jan , 2009 6:22 pm
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Feredir wrote:
This is how I view the "we are not your enemy" comment. Isn't taking the power away from them in determining who they are against?
Technically, what he probably meant is "you are not our enemy and we need not be yours". I don't think he intended to imply they couldn't decide who their enemies were; he just wasn't speaking that precisely.


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Wilma
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 3:35 am
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I thought it was a brilliant idea to address the Muslim world first. He has Muslim in his family and probably understands much more about the Muslim world then any president before him. Imagine how Muslims feel about this interview. Having good relationship with Muslims is important to the President of United States of America. That is a huge positive statement to the Muslim world. This is good if the US wants the Muslim world to stop hating them. He is making Al-Queda quake in their boots, by appealing to the hearts and minds of Muslims. Keep in mind much of the Muslim world is fascinated by the West. (A Student buddy of mine told how people dress up to go to McDonald's in Dubai, among some of their Western fascination). The more he appeals to Muslim world, the less likely al-Queda can recruit new people. A friend of mine who is "Muslim" and converting to Christianity said that Bush played right into Bin Ladens hands and added fuel to the fire.

Might isn't always right.

About the "we are not your enemy" phrasing. Looking at foreign policy for quite a while from the US toward the Muslim world, well it would appear that the US is the enemy. It had not been very positive to the Muslim world long before Sept. 11th.
I really think it's important that Americans pay attention to foreign policy as it really explains the question of "why do they hate us?" It's not because of "freedom" let me tell you that. Also if people were more aware of America's foreign policy they wouldn't constantly cast themselves as innocents. (Canada has done horrible things too so I am not just being mean to Americans). If a citizen stands by their country, it's real important to know what a citizens country is doing outside it's borders.

*Gets ready to be flamed*

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vison
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 4:44 am
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No flaming from here, Wilma. (Off topic, lovely to see you!!)

We North Americans tend to be pretty insular and ignorant of the rest of the world.

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Lidless
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 6:11 am
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It was a very, very astute move. Do I really have to go into detail?

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Feredir
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 2:39 pm
 
 
Dave_LF wrote:
Technically, what he probably meant is "you are not our enemy and we need not be yours". I don't think he intended to imply they couldn't decide who their enemies were; he just wasn't speaking that precisely.
I understand his intent, but if I was able to take it that way imagine someone who feels that the US is trying to control them. I believe that some of them very easily took it that way.

Wilma wrote:
He is making Al-Queda quake in their boots, by appealing to the hearts and minds of Muslims.
I have heard this assumption from others as well. To say that Al-Qaeda is "quacking in their boots" over this interview is greatly under-estimating them. Let's face it, they hi-jacked planes and killed thousands of people. That is some pretty ingrained hate.

I have dealt with people who hate the police simply because of what they were taught by their parents. (Luckily I have never dealt with one that wanted to kill a cop.) You can see the hate in their eyes and it goes straight to their very souls. Did they want to hurt me simply because of what I do, yup. Did we convince them not to fight, yup. Did they still hate us and want to fight us the next time we dealt with them, yup.

My point is this, one speach is not going to undo what Al-Qaeda has going on.

I still stand by my original statement also, I think it was too early. I don't argue whether or not it should have been done, that's his call as president. I think it was too early.

freddy


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Feredir
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 2:40 pm
 
 
Lidless wrote:
It was a very, very astute move. Do I really have to go into detail?

It's up to you. I think the only one that might disagree with you is, well me. ;) .


freddy


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jewelsong
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 3:22 pm
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Freddy, when do you think he should have done it, then? I mean, how long should he have waited?

Obama took office is a precarious time and most people were looking to him for answers and policy decisions way before he actually took office. The mid-east, in particular was anxious, curious, worried, hopeful (take your choice) about what his presidency would mean for them (depending on what they stood to gain/loose.)

I think he sent a very clear message that THIS was going to be one of the priorities of his administration - to sort things out in the middle east and he was going to start with a message of outreach. And he was going to start immediately.

As far as addressing the American people "first" - well, he has a DAILY YouTube and a weekly radio and video address. I don't think anyone is in the dark about what he is going to do.


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Di of Long Cleeve
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 3:54 pm
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I'll add what I said on TORC ... the appointment of George Mitchell is excellent.

That man has my everlasting gratitude for the diplomatic role he played in the Good Friday agreement of 1998 to ensure peace in Northern Ireland.

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Rebecca
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 4:02 pm
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Feredir wrote:
"quacking in their boots"
Freudian slip? ;) :D

:hug:

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Wilma
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 4:21 pm
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Iam not naive enough to think one interview is going to stop Al-Queda, but it is a big move in the right direction. He has to start somewhere.

Like I said the whole foreign policy issue would add to hate. Hate always has a basis somewhere. Also for the hijackers at least they were from Saudi Arabia and educated to some degree. There had to be some serious convincing to convince educated people to kill themselves and thousands of people. I wouldn't go so far as to say that the hi-jackers killed people just because their parents said hate the US.I do not think hate is that simple. In the hi-jackers case it has a lot to do with Saudi-Arabia and US relations. I guess you and I are at different ends of of the "why hate?" spectrum. :shrug:

But like I said minds can be changed if a person actually demonstrate something different to what they have been taught. Obama's interview is quite a big demonstration.

(I will say I will be happy if he ever gets to the bottom of whatever is going on in Saudi Arabia. I never seen such a major issue so totally swept under the rug, 19 of the 20 hi-jackers were Saudi and the leader of Al-Queda is Saudi, yet Saudi Arabia has nothing to do with terrorism :scratch: Saudi Arabia is supposed to be an ally of the US. Why the heck are their citizens killing Americans? Something is wrong there. Here is hoping the Obama Administration can find out since the Bush Administration certainly did not.)

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LalaithUrwen
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 4:25 pm
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:damnfunny: That's good. :) ETA: That was for the "quacking in their boots" comment.

I guess my thought is that it wasn't wrong for him to address the Muslim nations; it was, in fact, necessary and a good political move that might, hopefully, improve relations between us. I'm glad he did it sooner rather than later, but we'll see if it actually did any good. (Call me cynical, but I doubt it.) It just seems a little out of protocol to do it before he formally addressed the US as its president or gave a formal interview here first.

But whatever. Obama can do no wrong--at the moment anyway. ;)


Lali

Last edited by LalaithUrwen on Thu 29 Jan , 2009 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Riverthalos
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 4:31 pm
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Feredir wrote:
[
I have heard this assumption from others as well. To say that Al-Qaeda is "quacking in their boots" over this interview is greatly under-estimating them. Let's face it, they hi-jacked planes and killed thousands of people. That is some pretty ingrained hate.
Al Qaeda also has an unpleasant habit of killing its foot soldiers. So they need to keep recruitment up.

The hate gets built off of resentments. The governments in that part of the world are shitty even when htey're stable. People are oppressed and unhappy and groups like Al Qaeda channel that unhappiness into terrorism. It's not like here, where the unhappy can just cast a ballot when the next election rolls around. Also, I think there's no small degree of scapegoating going on in the Mideast - Israel and the West are portrayed as the source of all problems. Of course, the entire population in the Mideast isn't going to buy into that. But the subset that does...oh my.

Obama getting interviewed on Al-Arabiya isn't going to erase those resentments or stop the scapegoating. But it's a step in the right direction. If nothing else, it goes towards making us look less deserving of what the terrorists want to do to us.

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