board77

The Last Homely Site on the Web

President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...

Post Reply   Page 2 of 2  [ 33 posts ]
Jump to page « 1 2
Author Message
vison
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 4:52 pm
Best friends forever
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 6546
Joined: Fri 04 Feb , 2005 4:49 am
 
Saudi Arabia is untouchable - the oil business is far more important than those hijackers. You don't need to be a conspiracy theorist to figure out why a Bush would not ever come down hard on a Saudi.

On the day after 9/11, the only planes flying from the US were those carrying members of the bin Laden family away. Now, it's fair enough to say they would have been in danger just for being bin Ladens. But who took that much care to protect other innocent Muslims from the danger they were in because of a family member? Guantanamo Bay was where they went.

Mr. Obama is not beyond criticism, as is obvious from this thread. But I can't quite see any reason to be hard on the man for trying to protect America in his way, since Mr. Bush's way was such a dismal failure.

_________________

Living on Earth is expensive,
but it does include a free trip
around the sun every year.


Top
Profile Quote
ToshoftheWuffingas
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 5:15 pm
Filthy darwinian hobbit
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 6921
Joined: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 12:52 pm
Location: Silly Suffolk
 
I don't think the broadcast was aimed at El Qaida. Their minds are made up. It was aimed at firstly the people of the Muslim world. Bush made a lot of errors talking about crusades and other things that looked as if the US was taking on a religious, Christian attack on Islam. One of the ways our UK terrorists were energised to do their bombings was the belief inculcated into them that the West was conducting a war on Islam. Anything which undermines that belief is worth doing.
The other is that there is a strong ferment of ideas within the Islamic world at the moment. Fundamentalism is not the only intellectual idea. I was listening to a Tariq Ramadan on the radio a few days back for instance. I believe he may live in France but I didn't research him. He comes from a liberal tradition which believes the fundamentalist route is mistaken. More precisely he criticises interest group politics: the idea of supporting 'your team'. He suggests Muslims should protest conditions as members of a wider community rather than as Muslims, finding common ground with Jews and Christians. In the West Muslims should examine what it means to be within a wider community. He is but one example of those discussions going on. Obama's broadcast is but one tactic to reach out and strengthen that discourse between Islam and the West and also the crucial debate within Islam itself.

One other thing. The question is whether this is too early. I don't want to comment on timing it with addresses to the American public but making this approach as soon as possible means there is no compulsion of events to compromise it. Imagine how much more difficult it would be to get a positive result from the Middle East if he had to give the address to them after having to authorise some military action. Then it would be looked on as either hypocricy or an attempt to ingratiate himself.

_________________

[ img ]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos

Norwich Beer Festival 2009


Top
Profile Quote
Feredir
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 5:40 pm
 
 
Rebecca wrote:
Feredir wrote:
"quacking in their boots"
Freudian slip? ;) :D

:hug:

Man that was a good one.......


Top
Quote
ToshoftheWuffingas
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 5:43 pm
Filthy darwinian hobbit
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 6921
Joined: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 12:52 pm
Location: Silly Suffolk
 
:D :toast:

_________________

[ img ]
[url=http://www.flickr.com/photos

Norwich Beer Festival 2009


Top
Profile Quote
Wilma
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 5:54 pm
Takoyaki is love
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 2994
Joined: Tue 22 Feb , 2005 12:55 pm
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
 
Yes Vison, I know it's about the oil relationship, but that is sad as it looks as if the Bush admin (as well as other administrations possibly) were willing to sacrifice the safety of American citizens for secure oil, and that is pretty sad. Not to mention supporting a government which seems pretty clear the Saudi people do not want. That seems pretty enemy-esque to me.

If Obama can deal with the Saudi's that would seriously impress me (and no I do not think he can do wrong, I don't think The US should pull out of Iraq unless there is adequate nation building. Obama just been office for a week and hasn't been enough time to screw up yet. I was even relatively nice to Bush b4 Sept 11)

Last edited by Wilma on Thu 29 Jan , 2009 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

_________________

Itoshiki Sensei from Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei. Avatar by: sparklessence

"There is no such thing as coincidence in this world, only hitsuzen." - Yuko Ichihara and Kimihiro Watanuki - xxxHolic

"I'm modest, I'll keep my knickers on and die!" - My sister Grace commenting on Bear Gryllis on an episode of Oprah :rofl:

[ img ]


Top
Profile Quote
Feredir
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 5:54 pm
 
 
I will do my best to answer everything brought up to me. If I miss anything please feel free to bring it to my attention.

When should he have made the interview? Sometime after he had spoken to the US citizens. As an "outsider" (I say this as a conservative who does not agree with most of Pres. Obama's ideas), I felt slighted.

Wilma, I don't think we are on different ends of the spectrum. I personally refuse to use the word "hate." It is such a strong word and brings pain when I hear it. As I pointed out earlier there are people who hate simply because their parents raised them to hate, I've seen it first hand.

As far as the Saudi's are concerned, they have oil. Oil=power throughout the world. Regardless if your last name is Bush or not, oil is power. All of this started long before Pres. Bush was elected and culpability lies with several of the previous presidents, regardless of political affiliation.

River, why do they kill their foot soldiers? Because it shows control and power over those who might resist doing what they want. Mind control is a very powerful thing.


freddy


Top
Quote
Riverthalos
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 6:04 pm
bioalchemist
Offline
 
Posts: 5205
Joined: Wed 16 Mar , 2005 2:10 am
Location: at a safe distance
 
They kill their foot soldiers because they convince them to become suicide bombers. When death appears to offer more than anything you'll get out of life, that says something about your living situation. That extremist groups continue to find men (and, on rare occasions, women) willing to blow themselves up on a hope of going to heaven that even some Muslim scholars call false says something as well.

_________________

"He attacks. And here I can kill him. But I don't. That's the answer to world peace, people."
-Stickles Shihan


Top
Profile Quote
Feredir
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 6:09 pm
 
 
Riverthalos wrote:
They kill their foot soldiers because they convince them to become suicide bombers. When death appears to offer more than anything you'll get out of life, that says something about your living situation. That extremist groups continue to find men (and, on rare occasions, women) willing to blow themselves up on a hope of going to heaven that even some Muslim scholars call false says something as well.

Yup, brainwashing.


Top
Quote
Feredir
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 6:13 pm
 
 
vison wrote:
Mr. Obama is not beyond criticism, as is obvious from this thread. But I can't quite see any reason to be hard on the man for trying to protect America in his way, since Mr. Bush's way was such a dismal failure.
Hard on him? Please, if Pres. Bush wiped his nose wrong people attacked him with both barrels and then reloaded. I am not trying to be hard on him but pointing out what I think was wrong.

As far as Saudi Arabia, I think there is quite a bit of information sharing going on that is keeping the US and other countires safe. I think it is like a drug dealer who gets less of a sentence when he rats out his supplier.

freddy


Top
Quote
ellienor
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Thu 29 Jan , 2009 6:50 pm
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 328
Joined: Mon 13 Dec , 2004 9:07 pm
 
There was a lot, a ton, a huge amount of support for Bush for quite a long time. So to simply cast Bush as picked-upon by the liberal media is not correct, IMHO. He got where he got in public standing in spite of having huge support after 9/11 and even public support in favor of invading Iraq.


Top
Profile Quote
vison
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Fri 30 Jan , 2009 1:22 am
Best friends forever
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 6546
Joined: Fri 04 Feb , 2005 4:49 am
 
ellienor wrote:
There was a lot, a ton, a huge amount of support for Bush for quite a long time. So to simply cast Bush as picked-upon by the liberal media is not correct, IMHO. He got where he got in public standing in spite of having huge support after 9/11 and even public support in favor of invading Iraq.
Exactly.

_________________

Living on Earth is expensive,
but it does include a free trip
around the sun every year.


Top
Profile Quote
Feredir
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Fri 30 Jan , 2009 2:26 am
 
 
I never said anything about the media picking on him, although that was true in the later years also.


freddy


Top
Quote
jewelsong
Post subject: Re: President Obama speaks to the Muslim nations first...
Posted: Fri 30 Jan , 2009 6:25 am
Just keep singin'!
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 1729
Joined: Sun 20 Feb , 2005 9:26 pm
Location: UK
 
Feredir wrote:
. As an "outsider" (I say this as a conservative who does not agree with most of Pres. Obama's ideas), I felt slighted.
You'll get over it... ;)
Quote:
As I pointed out earlier there are people who hate simply because their parents raised them to hate, I've seen it first hand.
I think this is one of the reasons Obama's speech was so important. In order to break away from what you were taught by your parents - in order to question something you have held to be true for years, you need a reason to start questioning. If you've been taught for your whole life that Americans are evil, horrible, Islam-haters and then suddenly, there's the new President talking to YOU - saying, "Look, we're not your enemy, I have Muslims in my family" and so on...well, it might start you questioning if what you had been taught is true.

It is very difficult to decide to change something you've always assumed was correct. There needs to be a catalyst for that change.
Quote:
As far as the Saudi's are concerned, they have oil. Oil=power throughout the world.
This is why I think the sooner we develop an alternative fuel source, the better. And we won't develop one - or at least one that is financially viable before we have to. Necessity is the mother of invention. Make no mistake, an alternative source can be found. We just need to have the motivation to do it.

Once that happens, I think the situation in the mid-east will change dramatically.


Top
Profile Quote
Display: Sort by: Direction:
Post Reply   Page 2 of 2  [ 33 posts ]
Return to “The Symposium” | Jump to page « 1 2
Jump to: