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PostPosted: Sat 19 Sep , 2009 6:48 am 
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sauronsfinger wrote:
The KOS article you embrace indicates that libertarians do not take certain whacko right wing positions on several issues. I provided you with links to libertarian forums which demonstrate that the article is wrong and that libertarians do indeed take radical right wing positions on these same issues. the evidence was provided for all to see, self induced willful blindess to the contrary.


The KOS article differentiates libertarians from Republicans who have grown so embarassed over their own party they are using a name that does not describe them for themselves.

Obviously you missed the very first sentence in the article. Or forgot it quickly since it disagrees with your core premise - everyone who disagrees with you is identical.

It's hilarious that you think KOS is a libertarian site though.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Sat 19 Sep , 2009 12:28 pm 
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from CG

Quote:
The KOS article differentiates libertarians from Republicans who have grown so embarassed over their own party they are using a name that does not describe them for themselves.


What does that mean? People who proudly call themselves libertarians are not real libertarians? Is that what you are struggling to say in plain words? So it is the almighty Cenedril Gildinaur who is the final and ultimate Word on just who gets to rightfully call themself a libertarian and who is not entitled to the prestigious label? You are going to determine that for them because you possess some qualifications, some knowledge, some credentials, some experience that those faux libertarians do not possess?

Quote:
Obviously you missed the very first sentence in the article. Or forgot it quickly since it disagrees with your core premise - everyone who disagrees with you is identical.


Not at all. The opinion piece is simply that. And I gave you plenty of concrete real world examples taken directly from a serious hardcore libertarian site - The Ron Paul Forums - Liberty Tree - where libertarians themselves voiced opinions that were contrary to the Daily kos opinion piece. In short, the kos piece simply does not stand up to the actual facts. But you prefer to ignore that.

Here is the premise as laid out at the start of the oped piece

Quote:
But what about the everyday gun toting townhall screamers and taxcutters and deficit hawks we see on cable news: are they really libertarian as so many claim, or just conservatives in glibertarian clothes?


So this author is the expert on who or who is not a true real genuine authentic honest-to-God libertarian? Or is that you CG? The fact is a simple one and I provided tons of evidence for you taken right from the Ron Paul Forum site for libertarians. Libertarians are among the most enthusiastic gun toters. Libertarians are among the townhall screamers. Libertarians are among the taxcutters. Libertarians are among the deficit hawks. That is no secret or mystery, no puzzle or enigma. In fact CG, several of those descriptive phrases fit you to a tee according to the massive volume of stuff you have written over the years.

Quote:
It's hilarious that you think KOS is a libertarian site though.


Please quote where I said anything so absurd or ridiculous. I know damn well what Kos is and libertarianism is nothing close to it. When you say things like this, you only succeed in making yourself looks stupid and petty. Anyone can see that the author of the opinion piece is simply incorrect about his statements as evidenced by the words written by libertarians themselves. Libertarians do indeed hold many of the wacko beliefs that the author of the Kos piece said they do not hold. He was wrong. If fact, you need only to examine your own views and you will see that you yourself contradict the Kos piece in your own beliefs and statements. The one about bringing guns to presidential events stands out for you as a sore thumb.

The author of the piece is somebody called Darksyde who says this about himself

Quote:
I'm a former moderate conservative who is fed up with Bush and Company.


This is who you are defending? A former "moderate conservative" who has now turned against his former idols? It is obvious that Mr. or Mrs. or Ms. Darksyde has precious little knowledge of libertarianism, progressivism or anything else. The bittersweet irony is that this Darksyde character berates and makes fun of recent libertarian converts when he/she admits that they indeed are one themselves. Go back and read his list and then go back and look at the numerous links I gave you to the Ron Paul forums where libertarians support the exact things that Darksyde claims that libertarians do not support. Yes, I know CG, its those old facts and evidence getting in the way of beliefs and philosophy again. They have a way of doing that.

I find it telling that you have set up yourself as some sort of Gatekeeper of the Flame of Libertarianism passing down judgement upon those who have met your strict criteria and are deemed worthy to be blessed with the oils of anointment in the Libertarian Rituals. It is extremely telling as to how you view yourself and how you view the rest of the world. You yourself CG did not even see fit to vote for the official Libertarian Party candidate for President last year and instead wrote in the name of your favorite Republican. But now you set yourself up in judgement over who is truly deserving and who is not deserving to be called a libertarian. Fascinating.

In the new TIME magazine article on the new libertarian poster boy - Glenn Beck - they mention his love of libertarianism. Now I suppose you are going to correct both Beck himself and TIME by denying him the right to claim libertarian beliefs?

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PostPosted: Wed 23 Sep , 2009 10:28 pm 
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sauronsfinger wrote:
from CG

Quote:
The KOS article differentiates libertarians from Republicans who have grown so embarassed over their own party they are using a name that does not describe them for themselves.


What does that mean? People who proudly call themselves libertarians are not real libertarians?


Wow, you almost can read. SOME people who call themselves libertarian aren't. Try adding that one capitalized word and you will actually be right.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Wed 23 Sep , 2009 11:27 pm 
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So YOU are the great and powerful all knowing judge who gets to decide who deserves to be annointed in the holy oils of libertariansim.

Just one question CG - who died and gave you that power?

Maybe its YOU who is not worthy of the label? After all, you voted for a Republican in the last election for President of the USA.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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PostPosted: Wed 23 Sep , 2009 11:29 pm 
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I suppose, if we go by your standards, everyone is a libertarian then since it describes people who hold any old belief. Welcome to the club you rascally libertarian.

The definition of "libertarian" is well known to everyone who has ever studied politics, which explains why you don't know it, and by that definition it is easy to determine who holds those beliefs and who doesn't.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Wed 23 Sep , 2009 11:33 pm 
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Not at all - only those who YOU - the great and powerful Wizard of Libertarianism - can dare to say who is worth enough to advance to be anointed with the sacred oils of Libertarianism. You have made that very clear.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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PostPosted: Wed 23 Sep , 2009 11:35 pm 
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If you can quote where I wrote that, please go ahead.

The rest of us, those who bother to understand the subject, will rely on what the word means in order to make that determination.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Wed 23 Sep , 2009 11:42 pm 
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Quote where you wrote what? I have not attempted to quote you in my last posts. However, it is obvious that when you make such statements as

SOME people who call themselves libertarian aren't.

it is more than obvious that you are sitting in judgement on who is and who is not a true, real, actual, True Believer, dyed-in-the-wool, libertarian.

You passed judgement CG - not me.

You said it in black and white. SOME people who call themselves libertarian aren't. . And who is making that call. The great and powerful Wizard of Libertarianism- our own Cenedril Gildinaur.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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PostPosted: Wed 23 Sep , 2009 11:45 pm 
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Quote where I claimed to be the only one who can determine who is a libertarian and who isn't.

You can find that quote, right?

Oh, and quote were I claimed the right to determine who gets" annointed with the sacred oils of Libertarianism". Exact quote, please.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep , 2009 12:05 am 
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You are the only here doing it CG. You are the judge and jury on this forum as to who can and cannot be worth of the sacred oils of libertarianism. This is the forum we are talking about. You - Cenedril Gildinaur - took it upon your self to make the following statement

Quote:
SOME people who call themselves libertarian aren't.


That quote is from you oh Laudable Leader of Libertarianism. Should we be honored to have you in our midst?

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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PostPosted: Sat 26 Sep , 2009 6:24 pm 
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Ah, this is so much fun. It's been a long time since this quick brown fox jumped over that lazy old dog. Oops, I forgot, since I disagree with Obama I can't be brown since those who disagrees with him are angry white guys who don't like that there is a different color in the Oval Office, thus sayeth sauronsfinger.

Yes, I wrote "some people who call themselves libertarian aren't". And it's the truth. How do I know? Because I read these things called "books" and in these books are "words", and these "words" have "definitions." It's amazing, lots and lots of words have definitions. Words we haven't even heard of yet already exist and have definitions. And those definitions tell you what a word means.

For instance "Christian" has a definition. It's pretty broad since it includes both Catholics and Baptists, but there is a definition. And while I'm not a Christian I think I have a good enough of a grasp of the definition. So if I met someone who prayed to Shiva, believed in Ganesh, says that Jesus never existed, but calls himself a Christian, I'd have a good enough grasp of the definition of "Christian" to say he's as crazy as a sauronsfinger.

And he'd want to know who made the the final arbiter of who is and who is not a Christian, and accuse me of being the one to annoing people with the sacred oil of Christianity. He'd call me the great and power wizard of Christianity. He'd call me the judge and jury of the forum of who is and is not a Christian. He'd call me the Laudable Leader of Christianity.

And this hypothetical person would be just as full of it as you are right now. Because even the word "libertarian" has this thing called a "definition."

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Sat 26 Sep , 2009 8:03 pm 
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CG - silly boy. We are not disputing the idea of who is a CHRISTIAN.

We are discussing YOU as the judge and jury and final authority on this board as who gets to be annointed with the sacred oils of LIBERTARIANISM.

Quote:
Because even the word "libertarian" has this thing called a "definition."


Really now? Perhaps you should prove it with an objective source other than yourself or your fellow travelers.

Are you going to present this wonderful objective definition from a recognized authority on political idealogies to us all and then present evidence why the people who you claim are not libertarians despite they themselves claiming to be libertarians are then not really libertarians? That is something that I would be interested in reading.

Nearly every single definition I have seen defining American libertarianism is so broad that it can cover a very wide amount of ground. Almost every authoritative source also concedes that there is a wide spectrum of thought across the libertarian ideology so that it becomes difficult to nail down just who is and who is not a libertarian when that claim is made by someone. But since you want to set yourself up on this site as the Final Authority and Grand Poobah of is and who is not a true, real, genuine, actual, real life libertarian CG, please go for it. This should be fun.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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