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Tax & Spending Vampire States

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Tax & Spending Vampire States
Posted: Mon 23 Mar , 2009 7:55 pm
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There has been a loud and constant criticism coming from Republican Senators mostly representing various states in the American South and West. The target of their carping is too much federal spending under the new Obama administration. I wonder how many people know the reality of taxes and spending in the USA? I wonder how many people know which states are little better than vampires sucking the wealth from other states while the federal government honors them with the largesse of spending programs that they could never hope to pay for?

Here is proof

http://www.taxfoundation.org/press/show/22659.html" target="_blank" target="_blank

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solicitr
Post subject: Re: Tax & Spending Vampire States
Posted: Mon 23 Mar , 2009 8:00 pm
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Aha! Since I'm back, you now dredge up the same invalid claims you tried (and lost with) months ago on halloffire.

Good luck.

FAIL!

Michigan has made itself a hellhole. Don't try to blame anyone else for it.

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Tax & Spending Vampire States
Posted: Mon 23 Mar , 2009 8:04 pm
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Facts are facts. Its there for all to see. Some states pay more than they get back. Some states get back more than they pay.

Is it just a weird coincidence that the states with the most Republican politicians opening up their mouths to criticize the President for spending seem to be from these states? I wonder why that is?

Solicitr - back on Hall of Fire you refused to even discuss the facts of this issue instead opting to rant and rave about other things. Playing ostrich or trying to doge the issue or change the subject does not constitute carrying the day.

But you are here, we are here, and the subject is here. If these numbers are in error, feel free to correct them.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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solicitr
Post subject: Re: Tax & Spending Vampire States
Posted: Mon 23 Mar , 2009 8:11 pm
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No, I crushed it. You just can't recognize abject defeat. Because it's such a lame, lame excuse to blame the failure of states with anti-business policies on smarter states which are as a result richer. Typical- just like claiming the poor are poor due to 'exploitation.'

Do your own arithmetic, SF- take that differential on a per-capita basis, and compare it to the income differential.

Pretty pathetic, no?


However, I would be happy to join you in a petition where the Feds redistribute no money whatsoever. You with me? ;)

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Tax & Spending Vampire States
Posted: Mon 23 Mar , 2009 8:24 pm
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Does your chest ever get sore from you thumping it so often?

I love the people on the net who have to brag so loudly "I beat you".... "I won" ... "I crushed you" ....

You have posted here twice on this subject and have not yet talked directly about the subject once. You make claims but supply no figures. You did the same thing on HofFire. Lots of trying to change the subject and avoid the subject and talk about anything but the subject.

So why is it that the states with President Obama's loudest critics in the Republican Party also seem to be the vampire states which benefit the most from federal spending while not paying in nearly the same amount?

I wonder if this is just a recent happening or has it been going on for many years now?

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Tax & Spending Vampire States
Posted: Mon 23 Mar , 2009 8:27 pm
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Quote:
WASHINGTON, D.C., October 9, 2007-Some states feast at the expense of others, according to the Tax Foundation's latest annual analysis of federal taxing and spending patterns.

Using newly released Fiscal Year 2005 spending data from the Census Bureau's annual Consolidated Federal Funds Report, the Tax Foundation compared the federal tax burden in each state with the amount of federal spending in each state. The result is a ranking of which states got the best deal in 2005 from Uncle Sam's tax and spending policies.

"All taxpayers know that the federal government uses tax and spending policy to redistribute income from citizens with high incomes to those who make little," said study author Curtis Dubay, a Tax Foundation economist. "Citizens are less aware of geographically based income redistribution."

Dubay continued, "High-income states cannot hope to receive back from the federal government more than they send in federal taxes because of the progressive nature of the federal income tax. Since the tax structure is unlikely to change, and federal spending is largely on auto-pilot, donor states are almost certain to keep sending more to Washington than they get in return."

Some states' high ratios have a clear spending-related cause. The large number of retirees collecting Social Security in Florida increases the flow of federal funds. An even bigger difference is created by the disproportionately large federal grants funneled to Alaska and the District of Columbia. Virginia and Maryland benefit greatly from their proximity to the capital in salaried federal employment. Alaska, Hawaii and New Mexico also receive disproportionately large sums in this category.

During fiscal 2005, taxpayers in New Mexico benefited the most from the give-and-take with Uncle Sam, receiving $2.03 in federal outlays for every $1.00 the state's taxpayers sent to Washington. This first-place finish is nothing new in New Mexico which has perched atop this list for many years. Other big winners in 2005 were Mississippi ($2.02), Alaska ($1.84), Louisiana ($1.78), and West Virginia ($1.76).

2005's biggest loser was New Jersey, which received 61 cents in outlays per tax dollar. Other low ranking states included Nevada (65 cents), Connecticut (69 cents), New Hampshire (71 cents), and Minnesota (72 cents).

FY 2005 RANKINGS

State
Outlay to Tax Ratio
Ranking

New Mexico
$2.03
1

Mississippi
$2.02
2

Alaska
$1.84
3

Louisiana
$1.78
4

West Virginia
$1.76
5

North Dakota
$1.68
6

Alabama
$1.66
7

South Dakota
$1.53
8

Kentucky
$1.51
9

Virginia
$1.51
10

Montana
$1.47
11

Hawaii
$1.44
12

Maine
$1.41
13

Arkansas
$1.41
14

Oklahoma
$1.36
15

South Carolina
$1.35
16

Missouri
$1.32
17

Maryland
$1.30
18

Tennessee
$1.27
19

Idaho
$1.21
20

Arizona
$1.19
21

Kansas
$1.12
22

Wyoming
$1.11
23

Iowa
$1.10
24

Nebraska
$1.10
25

Vermont
$1.08
26

North Carolina
$1.08
27

Pennsylvania
$1.07
28

Utah
$1.07
29

Indiana
$1.05
30

Ohio
$1.05
31

Georgia
$1.01
32

Rhode Island
$1.00
33

Florida
$0.97
34

Texas
$0.94
35

Oregon
$0.93
36

Michigan
$0.92
37

Washington
$0.88
38

Wisconsin
$0.86
39

Massachusetts
$0.82
40

Colorado
$0.81
41

New York
$0.79
42

California
$0.78
43

Delaware
$0.77
44

Illinois
$0.75
45

Minnesota
$0.72
46

New Hampshire
$0.71
47

Connecticut
$0.69
48

Nevada
$0.65
49

New Jersey
$0.61
50

District of Columbia
$5.55



These numbers will be detailed to a greater extent in the forthcoming Tax Foundation Special Report, "Federal Tax Burdens and Expenditures by State: Which States Gain Most from Federal Fiscal Operations?"

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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Eruname
Post subject: Re: Tax & Spending Vampire States
Posted: Mon 23 Mar , 2009 8:56 pm
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solicitr wrote:
Aha! Since I'm back,
You're back? You joined this board back in the summer of 2008 and didn't post once until the end of February this year. You've not ever been here and I'd wager the only reason you've brought your bile here is because you've been banned from posting in the Lasto forum at HoF again. The type of posting you do that gets you banned at HoF won't be welcome here either.

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Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: Tax & Spending Vampire States
Posted: Mon 23 Mar , 2009 9:06 pm
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It's good to have the nations nuclear labs. yes yes. :devil:








pay no attention to the little green men...they're aliens...yes


aliens that's it.

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laureanna
Post subject: Re: Tax & Spending Vampire States
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 4:09 am
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So... back to the actual subject of the thread :roll:

It's fairly clear that the tax side of the equation comes from the income, sales, and sin taxes each individual or corporation pays. But what does the spend side consist of? Military weapons contracts? Favorable business tax shelters? Farm supports? University grants? Highway construction funds?

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Riverthalos
Post subject: Re: Tax & Spending Vampire States
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 4:27 am
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Ara-anna wrote:
It's good to have the nations nuclear labs.
and not much else...

**ducks

**runs

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solicitr
Post subject: Re: Tax & Spending Vampire States
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 2:49 pm
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Michigan actually pays less per capita in Federal tax than Virginia. As to the spending? 58% of Federal spending in Virginia goes to the salaries and offices of Washington bureaucrats on our side of the Potomac. Subtract that out, and US spending here amounts to $5300 per capita- less than Michigan's $6000. And yet our p/c income is nearly $3000 higher, and our unemployment is *half* Michigan's.

The real winners in the Federal wealth-redistribution sweepstakes, the 'vampire states' as your AFL-CIO newsletter calls them, are the poorest states like Alabama and Mississippi. Well, duh! They get proportionately larger welfare payments. Conversely, our steeply progressive tax code, which I though liberals liked, guarantees that states with more rich people will pay more taxes per capita.


It actually appears we have a meeting of the minds, SF- if abolish welfare, fire 2/3 of Federal employees, and enact a flat tax, then all your spending inequities will disappear. I could sign on to that. :halo:

In reality, of course, the problem is pegged on the very same site you link to- Michigan is driving employers out of the state with its Single Business Tax and closed union shops. And Big Labor is desperately trying to point the finger at anyone, anything, other than itself to account for the job destruction unions have caused in the states they rule. Sorry, sf: it's not our fault Michigan has the highest unemployment in the nation after similarly union-dominated Rhode Island

Last edited by solicitr on Tue 24 Mar , 2009 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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solicitr
Post subject: Re: Tax & Spending Vampire States
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 2:52 pm
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Quote:
I'd wager the only reason you've brought your bile here
Because, of course, your posts are 100% bile-free and never stoop to personal insults....
:pray:
Quote:
The type of posting you do that gets you banned at HoF won't be welcome here either.
You mean, left-wing mods?

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The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money.
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tinwe
Post subject: Re: Tax & Spending Vampire States
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 3:16 pm
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solicitr wrote:
Because, of course, your posts are 100% bile-free and never stoop to personal insults....
Says the man whose very avatar and signature text are intended to do nothing but insult.

Please leave this place. I can’t understand why you ever wanted to come here in the first place. You certainly have no friends here, and I can’t believe that anyone actually wants you here.

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solicitr
Post subject: Re: Tax & Spending Vampire States
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 3:22 pm
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Quote:
Please leave this place. I can’t understand why you ever wanted to come here in the first place. You certainly have no friends here, and I can’t believe that anyone actually wants you here.
What is this, junior high school?

You're 'insulted' because I don't like the current occupant of the Oval Office? 'Insulted' because Dr von Hayek correctly pointed out the socialist roots of fascism? You can't stand the presence of contrary opinions? If you want a place where everyone is drinking the same Kool-aid, I suggest you go over to Daily Kos.

"Nobody likes you." Sheesh. How old are you?

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Pippin4242
Post subject: Re: Tax & Spending Vampire States
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 3:35 pm
Hasta la victoria, siempre
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Tinwë, while I can see why you're irritated, I'd request that you try to refrain from personal insults. That goes for everybody in this forum; as I've mentioned in private already to one or two of you, it's far better to attack the argument that annoys you than the poster. :)

[/modhat]

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Alatar
Post subject: Re: Tax & Spending Vampire States
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 3:42 pm
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Or we could ban all the arseholes!

Please note that I have not called anyone an arsehole, nor have I implied that any particular posters are arseholes, but if said hypothetical arseholes were banned, we might have a pleasant place to post!

Incidentally, if you feel I'm targeting you by mentioning hypthetical arseholeness, you might be right. Hypothetically.

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Tax & Spending Vampire States
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 3:59 pm
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from Solicitr
Quote:
It actually appears we have a meeting of the minds, SF- if abolish welfare, fire 2/3 of Federal employees, and enact a flat tax, then all your spending inequities will disappear. I could sign on to that
For some reason I was waiting for all your statistics on how the ones I provided were wrong. But that has failed to materialize. You give us one allegation (without factual substantiation by the way) that the state of Virginia pays a higher per capita tax than does Michigan.

So what?

That was never the point and what you are attempting to do is confuse the situation. The point was a simple one and one for some reason you seem very resistant to:

Some states get a whole lot back from the federal government for every dollar they pay in while other states get back very little.

You mention Virginia and Michigan. So lets look at those two since you brought them up. Michigan gets back 92 cents for every single one dollar it sends to Washington in taxes. They get back less than they pay in. Virginia gets back $1.51 for every single one dollar they pay in/ They get back significantly more than they pay in.

Now where do you think Michigans money is going since they do not get it all back and where are we getting that extra money to pay the state of Virginia?

Somebody is donating and somebody is getting those donations.

This is not a matter of per capita anything. That is an entirely different discussion and if you want to further it please start your own thread on that topic.

I notice you blame lots of this on welfare. That seems to be your whipping boy of convenience. Do you think any of this has anything to do with US military spending - one of your favorite recepients of choice for government largesse?

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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solicitr
Post subject: Re: Tax & Spending Vampire States
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 4:01 pm
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SF, please read my post.

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Tax & Spending Vampire States
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 4:02 pm
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that was done before I posted a response.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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Pippin4242
Post subject: Re: Tax & Spending Vampire States
Posted: Tue 24 Mar , 2009 4:08 pm
Hasta la victoria, siempre
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solicitr, your condescending tone amounts to insult, more or less. Please, I urge you, moderate your choice of words in the future, before I have to.

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