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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 1:25 pm 
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The radical right wing fringe groups have always had an eerie fascination with the idea of secession going back to their glory days of the Confederacy and the Civil War. Now the Governor of Texas, Rick Perry looks to be flirting with the idea to gain some political brownie points with the extreme wing of the Republican Party in his state.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 48IO2.html" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

The wiseguy part of me says 'let em go and good riddance' but then the rational part takes over and the folly of such an idea is seen clearly.

This pro secession Texas video uses a quote from Republican congressman Ron Paul

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg9aM6rVcNM" target="_blank

and even more promoting anarchy as part of secession
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGjP2Gk1 ... re=related

I wonder if we will see more of this type of thing over the next four years as the Right becomes more angry, more disaffected and more alienated from the mainstream in this country?

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


Last edited by sauronsfinger on Thu 16 Apr , 2009 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 1:28 pm 
sauronsfinger wrote:
I wonder if we will see more of this type of thing over the next four years as the Right becomes more angry, more disaffected and more alienated from the mainstream in this country?


What happened to how Pres. Obama will unifiy this country? Not looking for a fight but your comment is in direct opposite of what what said when Pres. Obama was elected.

freddy


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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 1:52 pm 
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Freddy ... you cannot force people to unify with you. You can try for such effort but cannot force it. And thuthfully, there are major differences between the parties and I think that is part and parcel of our system. I certainly do not want a nation of lockstep zombies. I respect those differences and the right of people to act upon them within the law and within our system.

But secession?

There is a video from Florida yesterday in which a man spoke at one of the Tea Bag protests. He thanked President Obama for lowering taxes on the vast majority of American and the crowd booed him. He mentioned the huge increase in debt under the eight years of George Bush and the crowd booed him. This was in a crowd who - supposedly - was there to fight taxes and debt!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkOwsIII ... r_embedded" target="_blank

You cannot unite those who do not want to be united no matter what good intentions you may have.

here is a website for Texas secession

http://www.texassecede.com/" target="_blank" target="_blank

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 2:24 pm 
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I say let Texas succeed.

Then the Dallas Crybabies can be written out of the NFL.


Plus we could then invade them and take their oil. You know Halliburton would be on our side if we made them a sweet deal.





I'd just like to say on the record...I'm a Yankee.

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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 5:12 pm 
I have no interest in the secession stuff, working to change things, yes. A good first step is the TEA PARTIES in which people were voicing their complaints against BOTH parties and the ways of spending tax dollars like they were going out of style, is a great first step. It has been a long time coming and needed to be done long ago.


freddy


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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 5:20 pm 
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Quote:
Of the roughly $11 trillion in federal debt accumulated to date, more than 90 percent can be attributed to the tenure of three presidents: Ronald Reagan, who used to complain constantly about runaway spending; George Herbert Walker Bush, reputed to be one of those old-fashioned green-eyeshade Republicans; and his spendthrift son George "Dubya" Bush, whose trillion-dollar war and irresponsible tax cuts accounted for nearly half the entire burden. Only Bill Clinton temporarily reversed the trend with surpluses and started to pay down the debt (by raising rates on the wealthiest taxpayers).


From http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/20 ... /deficits/" target="_blank

This is just so :bang: for me. Where was all this outrage over the "generational theft" before? Why didn't Republicans care until suddenly, just now? I think of it as generational theft that we spent trillions in Iraq and on the military. This does not benefit us.

Obama's trying to address a crisis in the economy. We are poised at the brink of a Depression and if Obama pulls a Hoover (cutting spending) it just provides an additive effect to the recession. Boom, depression. Further, Obama's spending in my opinion is in the nature of building up the infrastructure. Clean renewable energy. Health care increasing mobility of workers. (I have a friend who wants to start her own consulting business but because her son has a rare condition that may lead to a liver transplant, she's uninsurable on the private individual market and therefore remains a company gal).


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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 5:23 pm 
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Or perhaps voting in the next election in 2 years.
or running viable canidates that don't strickly pander to the religious far right.
or actually sticking to real fiscal conservative issues instead of gay marriage issues
or actually vetting your Vice Presidential canidate
or actually doing a bit of actual research into it all instead of saying a person who has been in charge for less than 100 days is all at fault i.e. the two wars actually cost real dollars. Or that the reason banks and mortgages are tanking the economy is becuase of the last two Presidents deregulation i.e. Clinton - Freddy/Fanny Bush-Banking deregulation.
Or that all of this did not just start the moment Obama took office.
Or realizing that Rush doesn't actualy represent anything other than his own bloated intrests, neither does Rupert Murdock.

If the right doesn't like it, well maybe next time they will take the time to actually look at the canidates they are running and pick better canidates, ones who can appeal to the moderate middle ground that actually makes the decisions. Or they can continue to try to ram religion down the throats of the rest of us and loose. Because if there is anything that will cause a bigger problem than taxes is forcing people to submit to a religious belief that are not their own.

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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 6:12 pm 
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Let them go. If they think they can handle things on their own let them try it out. If they fail it is on their own heads, and if they succeed after they seceed, well ...

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Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 6:32 pm 
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I can't believe the Texas governor actually said that. Really, it's pretty shocking, especially considering how scarring the Civil War was. The Federal Government is not about to let states start to secede. Signing the Constitution did not come with an opt-out provision. :suspicious:


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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 6:36 pm 
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You are correct Ellienor. This issue was solved a very long time ago. Texas has no right or power to secede from the Union.

Texas v. White (74 U.S. 700). Chief Justice Chase, writing
for the court in its 1869 decision, said:

Quote:
"The Constitution, in all its provisions, looks to an indestructible
Union, composed of indestructible States. ... Considered, therefore, as
transactions under the Constitution, the Ordinance of Secession, adopted
by the convention and ratified by a majority of the citizens of Texas, and
all the Acts of her Legislature intended to give effect to that ordinance,
were absolutely null. They were utterly without operation in law. ... Our
conclusion, therefore, is, that Texas continued to be a State, and a State
of the Union, notwithstanding the transactions to which we have referred."

The entire decision is available on the Web at
http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/cases/historic.htm" target="_blank" target="_blank

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 7:08 pm 
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Cenedril_Gildinaur wrote:
Let them go. If they think they can handle things on their own let them try it out. If they fail it is on their own heads, and if they succeed after they seceed, well ...


yeah yeah I know. That's what I get for using word with automatic spell check crap. ;)

I don't think they would succeed after they secede. Plus I wouldn't have to hear about the Dallas Crybabies anymore, because I think they actually have to be part of the Nation to part of the National Football League.

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Last edited by Ara-anna on Thu 16 Apr , 2009 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 7:26 pm 
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Well at least we would not have to worry about that pesky Mexican - USA border anymore.... at least where it is at any rate. :P

And of course there is the tremendous impact it would have upon the Electoral College .... take away the automatic Republican Party votes for Texas and you tip the scales greatly in favor the the Democrats for a long time to come.... :cool:

as for Ara-anna and the NFL - maybe the Canadian league would let the Texas teams join up and they could rename it the World Football League. They could call their championship came the World Serious. :oops:

And if Texas seceded as they did the first time would that cause a rush to return to slavery as well? No wonder Terrell Owens went North. :devil:

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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PostPosted: Thu 16 Apr , 2009 10:44 pm 
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We've been dealing with secessionist fervour in Canada for decades. It never comes to anything. At least the people in Quebec had some legitimate complaints, unlike those whiners in Texas. God, what a bunch of wimps and wussies.

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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr , 2009 2:31 pm 
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sauronsfinger wrote:
And if Texas seceded as they did the first time would that cause a rush to return to slavery as well? No wonder Terrell Owens went North. :devil:


I know making fun of Texans is a fun sport for the rest of America but that one went a bit far.

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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr , 2009 2:47 pm 
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Eruname - my apologies if I offended you .... the entire post was made up of four humorous bits and that was just part of the joke..... thus the silly smiley faces at the end of each portion. Every state, including my own of Michigan, has its share of unique individuals that cause it to be joked about. I am sure Texas is no better or no worse than any other.

In defense of the good people of the state of Texas, here is a poll from Rasmussen which indicates that the vast majority of Texans have far more common sense than the few who screamed for secession and independence at the teabagging rallies this past Wednesday.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_ ... pt_to_stay" target="_blank" target="_blank
the important part

Quote:
Friday, April 17, 2009 Email to a FriendAdvertisement
Thirty-one percent (31%) of Texas voters say that their state has the right to secede from the United States and form an independent country.

However, the latest Rasmussen Reports poll in the state finds that if the matter was put to a vote, it wouldn’t even be close. Three-fourths (75%) of Lone Star State voters would opt to remain in the United States. Only 18% would vote to secede, and seven percent (7%) are not sure what they'd choose.


Its pretty obvious that the people of Texas are proud Americans and the vast majority want no part of this silly talk of secession. I wonder if this poll will have any impact on the rhetoric of its Governor?

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr , 2009 3:13 pm 
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I do know you were joking. I apologize for being overly sensitive.

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Abandon this fleeting world
abandon yourself.
Then the moon and flowers
will guide you along the way.

-Ryokan

http://wanderingthroughmiddleearth.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr , 2009 4:06 pm 
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No need to apologize Eruname --- I can use a good slap now and then. ;)

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr , 2009 4:49 pm 
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sauronsfinger wrote:
No need to apologize Eruname --- I can use a good slap now and then. ;)


Okey doke. Here's a pre-emptive slap: :salmon:

That should tune you up for today. :D

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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr , 2009 7:58 pm 
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Its nice to know who you can count on. ;)

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr , 2009 9:49 pm 
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So most of them have too much "common sense" to support secession and the rest would bring back slavery? Which part do you think is the joke?

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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