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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr , 2009 9:55 pm 
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from CG
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So most of them have too much "common sense" to support secession and the rest would bring back slavery? Which part do you think is the joke?


Well.... uh... I guess ... um .... normally the joke is the part with the humorous smilie faces after obviously humorous statements ..... such as these :cool: ;) :D :devil:

got it?

This whole secession thing and slavery seems to be a real sensitive point for you CG. Over the years, when its brought up you react rather strongly as if it is a personal attack on you. Why are you so infatuated with secession especially as it happened in 1861 as a defense to keep the practice of slavery?

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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr , 2009 10:05 pm 
bioalchemist
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Y'know, it says something about this country, that a governor can talk of secession but not get nailed up for treason...

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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr , 2009 10:30 pm 
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Riverthalos wrote:
Y'know, it says something about this country, that a governor can talk of secession but not get nailed up for treason...



Rio,

I have been debating this in my head for a bit now. Let's just say I am really having a hard time not having really bad feelings towards Texas at this point. I have to remind myself there are good Texans, and not all of them believe this fluffy bunny foo foo.

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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr , 2009 10:42 pm 
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My feeling is what the governor said was stupid and reckless. I am not inclined to take him seriously. I'm not inclined to take secession talk seriously in general. We fought this one out on battlefields and in courtrooms. The secession side lost. Tough shit for them.

I know CO requires state employees to sign a loyalty oath. Do other states do this? Does Texas? Is the governor of Texas an oathbreaker? :whistle:

ETA: It would be profoundly entertaining if the governor of Texas ever decides to make a presidential run after that little outburst.

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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr , 2009 11:09 pm 
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I get the impression Rick Perry is a bit of a jerk...far too Bushlike as well. More people voted against him than for him in the last election. If it weren't for that stupid Kinky Friedman, the Democrat Chris Bell would have won. I suppose blame could also be laid on Carole Keeton Strayhorn but at least she was a serious candidate.

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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr , 2009 11:23 pm 
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Cenedril_Gildinaur wrote:
So most of them have too much "common sense" to support secession and the rest would bring back slavery? Which part do you think is the joke?


L :cool: i :cool: g :cool: h :cool: t :cool: e :cool: n :cool: u :cool: p :cool: .

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PostPosted: Fri 17 Apr , 2009 11:38 pm 
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sauronsfinger wrote:
CG wrote:
So most of them have too much "common sense" to support secession and the rest would bring back slavery? Which part do you think is the joke?


Well.... uh... I guess ... um .... normally the joke is the part with the humorous smilie faces after obviously humorous statements ..... such as these :cool: ;) :D :devil:

got it?


Ah, I see.

And if I add smilies I can say nasty things about people too?

sauronsfinger wrote:
This whole secession thing and slavery seems to be a real sensitive point for you CG. Over the years, when its brought up you react rather strongly as if it is a personal attack on you. Why are you so infatuated with secession especially as it happened in 1861 as a defense to keep the practice of slavery?


You might also ask why I'm so infatuated with secession as it happened in 1776, because the reasons are the same. Anybody who has studied even the smallest amount of history would understand.

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Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Apr , 2009 12:50 am 
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from CG
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You might also ask why I'm so infatuated with secession as it happened in 1776, because the reasons are the same. Anybody who has studied even the smallest amount of history would understand.


Speaking as someone who actually taught US history for 34 years, and has a degree in the field, if you really truly believe this then sadly you really do not know what you are talking about as you are confusing individual states secession of 1861 with all of the united states declaring our Independence from a foreign power in 1776. Independence in 1776 was a important step to building the United States. Secession in 1861 was an important step towards the attempt to destroying the United States. You are comparing apples to cinderblocks. But I suspect you do actually know the difference between these two very different events but you are attempting to transfer the partriotic glory of American Independence to the treasonous infamy of secession and its defense of slavery.

But that is your right. Enjoy it. :cheers:

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PostPosted: Sat 18 Apr , 2009 11:31 pm 
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sauronsfinger wrote:
from CG
Quote:
You might also ask why I'm so infatuated with secession as it happened in 1776, because the reasons are the same. Anybody who has studied even the smallest amount of history would understand.


Speaking as someone who actually taught US history for 34 years, and has a degree in the field, if you really truly believe this then sadly you really do not know what you are talking about as you are confusing individual states secession of 1861 with all of the united states declaring our Independence from a foreign power in 1776.


I don't dispute that you have a degree in it. I didn't say that someone with a degree in it would understand, but I stand by saying that someone who understands the field would understand it quite clearly. Anyone who actually knows history, with or without a degree, would understand. Andyone who doesn't, with or without a degree, won't.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Apr , 2009 11:51 pm 
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CG - when you write that sort of stuff, do you have a point in mind that you hope to make?

Quite often I read what you write and I say to myself that he really must have had some central point that he wanted to make but just got lost along the way. Then I think of Steve Martin in the excellent film PLANES, TRAINS & AUTOMOBILES in which he explains that very thing to Del Griffith - played by John Candy. Candy's character has a sort of perpetual diaharrea of the mouth and Martin has reached his fill of it.

Quote:
You know everything is not an anecdote. You have to discriminate. You choose things that are funny or mildly amusing or interesting. You're a miracle! Your stories have NONE of that. They're not even amusing ACCIDENTALLY! "Honey, I'd like you to meet Del Griffith, he's got some amusing anecodotes for you. Oh and here's a gun so you can blow your brains out. You'll thank me for it." I could tolerate any insurance seminar. For days I could sit there and listen to them go on and on with a big smile on my face. They'd say, "How can you stand it?" I'd say, "'Cause I've been with Del Griffith. I can take ANYTHING." You know what they'd say? They'd say, "I know what you mean. The shower curtain ring guy. Woah." It's like going on a date with a Chatty Cathy doll. I expect you have a little string on your chest, you know, that I pull out and have to snap back. Except I wouldn't pull it out and snap it back - you would. Agh! Agh! Agh! Agh! And by the way, you know, when you're telling these little stories? Here's a good idea - have a POINT. It makes it SO much more interesting for the listener!


Its the weekend... rent the film ... it is really excellent. And it has a point to it.

And if you pretend to understand any part of American History you must know that the people who declared Independence from Britain were attempting to build a nation while the states that seceded in 1861 were trying to destroy a nation. That is about as opposite as you can get.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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PostPosted: Sun 19 Apr , 2009 12:06 am 
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I knew you wouldn't understand.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Sun 19 Apr , 2009 12:41 am 
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CG - I am trying to help you here... not hurt you. Here is what you wrote

Quote:
I didn't say that someone with a degree in it would understand, but I stand by saying that someone who understands the field would understand it quite clearly.


Go back and read that again..... someone who understands .... would understand. DUH?!?!?! Do you ever stop and analyze your own failings and accept responsibility for what you actually wrote instead of blaming somebody else for not getting your point when it is so poorly phrased?

What you might want to do is use a different word for one of those and it would add some meaning to your point. The way you phrased it is like sombody saying

"well I knew you could not add because if you could add then you could add". Or put in any other verb that you want. The way you wrote that sentence renders it impotent of any actual meaning or import.

I could rewrite it for you but that would defeat the entire purpose of the lesson.

Again, I am trying to help you. And I do encourage you to see PLANES, TRAINS & ATUOMOBILES. It is a John Hughes movie and much of his stuff can be far too generational for my taste but this is a really good film that shows his growth beyond simply a filmaker for the Gen X crowd. Its really good. And it has a point which never hurts.

But speaking of points, you miss the point of this whole topic. 13 united states declaring its independence from a foreign nation and secession by individual rogue states against their own nation are two very different things and in the context of American History they are complete and total opposites as I have told you ... and as you have ignored.

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PostPosted: Sun 19 Apr , 2009 2:21 am 
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You two want some time alone in the Bike Racks?

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PostPosted: Sun 19 Apr , 2009 2:28 am 
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Not really - I enjoy the company of the entire group.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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PostPosted: Sun 19 Apr , 2009 2:41 am 
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sauronsfinger wrote:
Not really - I enjoy the company of the entire group.


Then stick to the issues.

And that goes for your dance partner, too.

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PostPosted: Sun 19 Apr , 2009 4:06 am 
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Yes maam.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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PostPosted: Tue 21 Apr , 2009 2:16 am 
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I'm impressed with how the republicans have acted like babies lately. They lose power, and suddenly Barack Obama is a dictator, and Texas should secede. I recall back when GW was in power the attitude was "deal with it."

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PostPosted: Tue 21 Apr , 2009 3:45 am 
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One could say "turnabout is fair play" as the attitude Republicans showed everyone else was "deal with it" and now the attitude the Democrats show everyone else is "deal with it."

They have to whine to keep up the show, otherwise people might question underlying assumptions.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Tue 21 Apr , 2009 4:41 am 
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Funny I don't remember any Democratic Governor saying anything about seceding.

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PostPosted: Tue 21 Apr , 2009 10:42 am 
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Nor do I.

All the whining these days is being done by people on the Right. They simply cannot live with the reality that they find themsleves in.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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