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PostPosted: Sun 01 May , 2011 8:37 pm 
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Ron Paul is attracting the votes of progressives. That is good for him. It is only good for Republicans if they nominate Paul. It is bad for Democrats in any case.

I'll take the reactionary over the murderer, thanks

Quote:
Ron Paul is far from perfect, but I'll say this much for the Texas congressman: He has never authorized a drone strike in Pakistan. He has never authorized the killing of dozens of women and children in Yemen. He hasn't protected torturers from prosecution and he hasn't overseen the torturous treatment of a 23-year-old young man for the “crime” of revealing the government's criminal behavior.

Can the same be said for Barack Obama?

Yet, ask a good movement liberal or progressive about the two and you'll quickly be informed that yeah, Ron Paul's good on the war stuff -- yawn -- but otherwise he's a no-good right-wing reactionary of the worst order, a guy who'd kick your Aunt Beth off Medicare and force her to turn tricks for blood-pressure meds. By contrast, Obama, war crimes and all, provokes no such visceral distaste. He's more cosmopolitan, after all; less Texas-y. He's a Democrat. And gosh, even if he's made a few mistakes, he means well.

Sure he's a murderer, in other words, but at least he's not a Republican!

...

I do have a problem with those who imagine themselves to be liberal-minded citizens of the world casting their vote for Barack Obama and propagating the notion that someone can bomb and/or militarily occupy Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Somalia, Yemen and Libya and still earn more Progressive Points than the guy who would, you know, not do any of that.

...

And at least Paul would – and this is important, I think – stop killing poor foreigners with cluster bombs and Predator drones. Unlike the Nobel Peace Prize winner-in-chief, Paul would also bring the troops home from not just Afghanistan and Iraq, but Europe, Korea and Okinawa.

...

Even on on the most pressing domestic issues of the day, Paul strikes me as a hell of a lot more progressive than Obama. Look at the war on drugs: Obama has continued the same failed prohibitionist policies as his predecessors, maintaining a status quo that has placed 2.3 million – or one in 100 – Americans behind bars, the vast majority African-American and Hispanic. Paul, on the other hand, has called for ending the drug war and said he would pardon non-violent offenders, which would be the single greatest reform a president could make in the domestic sphere, equivalent in magnitude to ending Jim Crow.

...

Seriously: what the ****? Social Security's great and all I guess, but not exploding little children with cluster bombs – shouldn't that be at the top of the Liberal Agenda?

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Sun 01 May , 2011 10:10 pm 
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While it's a very interesting point, it would - as usual - be much better minus the OTT rhetoric.


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PostPosted: Mon 02 May , 2011 7:10 pm 
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Over the top? It was a progressive who wrote it because he was disappointed in the guy he helped get in to office.

Sorry, but it isn't over the top to say that kids are being killed by the bombs that the military drops, on orders from President Obama.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Mon 02 May , 2011 10:02 pm 
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There is a real, meaningful moral difference between killing and murdering. I'm also not convinced that leftists are necessarily pacifists or isolationists.


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PostPosted: Fri 06 May , 2011 9:30 pm 
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So, I watched the debate last night. There were five candidates, the others were no-shows.

Ron Paul was in full force, commanding and bold. He even got a Republican audience to cheer legalizing of heroin, and came out strongly in favor of gay marriage. That last bit is going to annoy liberals who want to accuse him of being a theocon. Justified Jab at Bachmann for not being there when asked about the Tea Party.

Gary Johnson played a good backup to Ron Paul, but wasn't in his stride. Then again he was also given the very not-serious question about what his reality TV show would be. Seriously? But when he said we should have never gone in to Iraq, and got cheers, other Republicans looked worried. Awesome take on illegal immigration.

Santorum was in many ways the odd man out, a more traditional Bush-era war monger Republican. Tried to argue in favor of war and torture. He thinks all Muslims are crazy and want to kill us. Says that all of Obama's successes are due to continuation of Bush policies.

Pawlenty was tripping over his record. He supported Romneycare but opposed Obamacare. Claims he balanced the Minnesota budget, but did so by leaving debts that came due after he left office. Blamed the Democrats for that. Also tried to sound like a pro-union Republican.

Cain tried to play the outsider, and instead his "I have no experience" bit made him look the amateur. Besides, both Paul and Johnson stole the "outsider" thunder. He wound up contradicting himself. Very weak showing.

Santorum talked nice about Gingrich. Pawlenty talked nice about Huckabee. Cain said he liked Romney back when he thought Romney could win. So the three non-libertarians are picking their faction. Question was asked to Paul about him being the godfather of the Tea Party, but Bachmann forming a Tea Party caucus and Paul not being in it. His response was basically Where's your Bachmann now? Oooh, nice and stinging!

I didn't bother to remember who the questioners were. There was some interaction between the candidates, but not much. Maybe everyone remembered what happened when Giuliani tried to take Ron Paul to task - Giuliani got his rear handed to him on a silver platter.

There is some friction between the Paul supporters and the Johnson supporters, but I think they should work together because having both on the same stage makes the other no longer look like the odd man out. It steered the debate in a direction that indicates there may actually be some good left in the Republican Party. Until the primaries actually start they compliment each other, one arguing theory and the other arguing pragmatism to argue the exact same point.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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