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Future of Republicanism

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Thu 30 Apr , 2009 7:30 pm
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The Republicans have announced their answer to their own downward spiral. It is called the New America project. Here is Republican Congressman Kevin McCarthy of California discussing it with Fox News:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/ ... oject.html" target="_blank

Those of you who have been waiting since the November election results to see what the Republican answer to President Obama was going to be, and you thought it was just "NO", are in for a surprise. The party has apparently rejected Michael Steeles previous recommendation to turn the party into a hip-hop party appealing to black and white urban youth but instead has decided to be good listeners. That is the center of this New America effort. The Republican Party wants you - us - the people to tell them how to save themselves.

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Feredir
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Thu 30 Apr , 2009 9:30 pm
 
 
I don't have time to watch it right now but from what you said, listening to the people who elect you is not a bad idea.


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TheEllipticalDisillusion
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Fri 01 May , 2009 10:14 pm
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Aw, it only took 2 brutal elections, and the first christian-muslim-socialist-American hating president for the Republicans to get it.

sf, are you sure they aren't going to be the part of "NO, but I'll listen before saying so"?

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Lidless
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Sat 02 May , 2009 7:15 am
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If you're wanting to represent people, shouldn't you stand on your principals and see what support you have, rather than seeing what people want and then saying those are your principals? The latter is just someone who wants to be in power, who bends like a reed in a straw wind.

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Feredir
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Sat 02 May , 2009 1:05 pm
 
 
Actually, you can do both. If you have your moral compass and standards but want to see how best to present the message to a different group of people, ask the people you are seeking to see what the best way to present them. Sometimes, it's all in how you say it.


freddy


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TheEllipticalDisillusion
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Sat 02 May , 2009 8:16 pm
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The only problem with that method is that it gets used to trick the people into thinking you are representing them. I want politicians who aren't afraid to say what they mean, and a media that isn't 24/7 anymore because I think that helps to make politicians afraid.

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Sat 02 May , 2009 9:17 pm
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Well the GOP Prince of Hiphop gave a speech last night in Wisconsin inviting moderates to join the GOP big tent:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolit ... 03877.html" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank
Quote:
"All you moderates out there, y'all come. I mean, that's the message," Steele said at a news conference. "The message of this party is this is a big table for everyone to have a seat. I have a place setting with your name on the front.

"Understand that when you come into someone's house, you're not looking to change it. You come in because that's the place you want to be."

Quick summary & translation: "you are welcome to join us but shut up and do as we tell you to do". Those are my words - not Mr. Steele's but that is how it comes across to me.

Yeah, this has just as much success in store for it as the idea Steele had to remake the GOP to be the urban hiphop party of youth. Are the Democrats paying Steele to say this crap? ;)

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Tue 05 May , 2009 8:15 pm
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With all the problems the Republicans are having, not it seems that optimism is not one of them.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/ ... GOP+losses" target="_blank" target="_blank

The article quotes Kentucky Senator Jim Bunning blaming Republican leadership for the loses in Senate seats over the last two election cycles. Bunning also predicts that the current crop of 40 GOP Senators will shrink even further next year
Quote:
“Do you realize that under our dynamic leadership of our leader, we have gone from 55 and probably to 40 (Senate seats) in two election cycles, and if the tea leaves that I read are correct, we will wind up with about 36 after this election cycle.
So if leadership means anything, it means you don’t lose … approximately 19 seats in three election cycles with good leadership.”

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Wed 06 May , 2009 3:39 pm
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Newt Gingrich warns of a possible third party effort splitting from todays Republican Party..... (or is that the Republic Party?)

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... y-in-2012/" target="_blank" target="_blank
Quote:
Gingrich warns of third party in 2012
Posted: 11:56 AM ET

From CNN Political Producer Peter Hamby


The former Republican Speaker discussed 2012 during a recent speech at a Missouri college.
(CNN) — Former House speaker Newt Gingrich is warning of a third party mutiny in 2012 if Republicans don’t figure out a way to shape up.

“If the Republicans can’t break out of being the right wing party of big government, then I think you would see a third party movement in 2012,” Gingrich said Tuesday. The speech, to a group of students at the College of the Ozarks in Missouri, was recorded by Springfield TV station KY3.

But Gingrich, bemoaning President Barack Obama’s “monstrosity of a budget,” acknowledged that Republicans are partially to blame for the escalation in federal spending.

"Remember, everything Obama’s doing, Bush started last year,” he said. “If you’re going to talk about big spending, the mistakes of the Bush administration last year are fully as bad as the mistakes of Obama’s first two, three months.”

Gingrich told the students that the current governmental system “is so sick, so out of touch and so arrogant that you’re going to have a nationwide rebellion at the polls of people in both parties who are just fed up.”

“You can do a Facebook page, you can Twitter,” he said. “I Twitter right now and I think we’re at like, I don’t know, 18,000 or 20,000 thousand people that follow my Twitter, which I have to say I think is nuts. But there are ways to communicate, you’re not trapped by CBS news.”

Gingrich has repeatedly said that he will decide in early 2011 whether he plans to seek the White House in 2012.
Lets hope that Newt is correct on this one. :cool:

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Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Wed 06 May , 2009 4:14 pm
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The Republican Party needs to sit down and watch Trouble the Water. Though I doubt it would do any good. However, if a smidgen of what the lower 9th ward was saying was listened to, the GOP would really rethink having Rush, Beck and Coulter as their mouth pieces. It's sad to say that Newt is the moderate right now, I remember when he was the radical right...back in the 80's.

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vison
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Wed 06 May , 2009 4:38 pm
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While I agree with much of what the Newtster has to say, I have to say also that he's loony if he thinks he's going to get the Republican nomination or, failing that, head a viable third party.

It is a VERY long way to 2012. Think back to 2007. Could anyone have seriously believed that Barack Obama would be elected president in 2008?

There could be (and I hope there is) a nifty Republican in the wings. But it's not Newt Gingrich.

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Wed 06 May , 2009 4:53 pm
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vison wrote:
It is a VERY long way to 2012. Think back to 2007. Could anyone have seriously believed that Barack Obama would be elected president in 2008?
Actually, yes. Once he announced I viewed it as inevitable, his only real obstacle being Hillary.

The best thing Obama ever did was save us from a Hillary Clinton administration.

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Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Wed 06 May , 2009 5:09 pm
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vison wrote:
While I agree with much of what the Newtster has to say, I have to say also that he's loony if he thinks he's going to get the Republican nomination or, failing that, head a viable third party.

It is a VERY long way to 2012. Think back to 2007. Could anyone have seriously believed that Barack Obama would be elected president in 2008?

There could be (and I hope there is) a nifty Republican in the wings. But it's not Newt Gingrich.

I don't think he is a viable canidate either, he's actually pointing out that part of the problem was Bush. That in and of it self will make him not liked in the GOP.

As for Obama, I told someone once after his DNC speech he would be the next President. I was told that one good speech isn't enough to make him a presidential canidate.

The GOP needs to come to center right instead of far far far right if they are going to survive. I can't help but think there is a majority of middle ground conservatives that are totally left without any hope of having a voice in their own party.


I'd like to say I still thinks it wild that Newt is the most mature voice to come out of the GOP. I remember him being the radical right wing nut...now well...he seems almost passive compared to others.

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Wed 06 May , 2009 5:17 pm
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from Ara-anna
Quote:
As for Obama, I told someone once after his DNC speech he would be the next President. I was told that one good speech isn't enough to make him a presidential canidate.
You were right. :toast:

If I remember correctly, that same person based it on the fact that speeches at the Democratic Convention meant very little in the long run since Bill Clinton bombed in 1988 before the DNC but was nominated four years later.

Shows how much they knew.

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Thu 07 May , 2009 9:28 pm
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TIME Magazine has a very good article on the future of the Republican Party:

http://www.time.com/time/politics/artic ... 88,00.html" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

It is well worth reading. Here is a portion of it
Quote:
It's silly to fault an opposition party for opposition; obstructionism helped return Democrats to power. Republicans actually have plenty of ideas.

That's the problem. The party's ideas — about economic issues, social issues and just about everything else — are not popular ideas. They are extremely conservative ideas tarred by association with the extremely unpopular George W. Bush, who helped downsize the party to its extremely conservative base. A hard-right agenda of slashing taxes for the investor class, protecting marriage from gays, blocking universal health insurance and extolling the glories of waterboarding produces terrific ratings for Rush Limbaugh, but it's not a majority agenda. The party's new, Hooverish focus on austerity on the brink of another depression does not seem to fit the national mood, and it's shamelessly hypocritical, given the party's recent history of massive deficit spending on pork, war and prescription drugs in good times, not to mention its continuing support for deficit-exploding tax cuts in bad times.

As the party has shrunk to its base, it has catered even more to its base's biases, insisting that the New Deal made the Depression worse, carbon emissions are fine for the environment and tax cuts actually boost revenues — even though the vast majority of historians, scientists and economists disagree. The RNC is about to vote on a kindergartenish resolution to change the name of its opponent to the Democrat Socialist Party. This plays well with hard-core culture warriors and tea-party activists convinced that a dictator-President is plotting to seize their guns, choose their doctors and put ACORN in charge of the Census, but it ultimately produces even more shrinkage, which gives the base even more influence — and the death spiral continues. "We're excluding the young, minorities, environmentalists, pro-choice — the list goes on," says Olympia Snowe of Maine, one of two moderate Republicans left in the Senate after Specter's switch. "Ideological purity is not the ticket to the promised land."
My favorite line in the article
Quote:
"The outlook for Republicans is even worse than people think," says Ruy Teixeira, author of The Emerging Democratic Majority. "Their biggest problem is that they really believe what they believe."

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Thu 07 May , 2009 10:18 pm
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Quote:
We're excluding the young, minorities, environmentalists, pro-choice — the list goes on," says Olympia Snowe of Maine, one of two moderate Republicans left in the Senate after Specter's switch. "Ideological purity is not the ticket to the promised land."
Well there it is in black and white, Snowe has it right on the money.

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Thu 07 May , 2009 10:23 pm
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There was a commentary on CNN.com about why the Republicans will bounce back. One of the reasons cited was that the Republicans are the de facto Libertarian party. I almost fell out of my seat. Suddenly the Republicans stand for fiscal responsibility, and small government? The last 8 years could have fooled me.

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Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Thu 07 May , 2009 10:33 pm
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TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
There was a commentary on CNN.com about why the Republicans will bounce back. One of the reasons cited was that the Republicans are the de facto Libertarian party. I almost fell out of my seat. Suddenly the Republicans stand for fiscal responsibility, and small government? The last 8 years could have fooled me.

Apparently they stand for fiscal responsibility and small government when the Dems win both the White House and the Congress. Otherwise not so much. They must also think all us independants have real short term memories as they think we just up and forgot GWB and all that shannigans....like poof the Dems are elected look how evil and bad they are for spending....and think we are all going to buy it on 'their word'. :roll: Well some of us aren't really that gullible, we actually can remember further back than the last 110 days.

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Fri 08 May , 2009 12:04 am
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TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
There was a commentary on CNN.com about why the Republicans will bounce back. One of the reasons cited was that the Republicans are the de facto Libertarian party. I almost fell out of my seat. Suddenly the Republicans stand for fiscal responsibility, and small government? The last 8 years could have fooled me.
They have a duty to report that, no matter how untrue. The myth must be maintained in order to prevent people from looking beyond the false dichotomy.

That's also the reason the Republican Party won't fall. The Democrats will save them, no matter what it takes, lest an actual opposition party rise up to replace it.

As Ara wrote, most of us can remember back farther than 110 days and know full well that the Republicans are no fan of small government in any way at all. Why, under Bush they've even dropped the habit of stealing libertarian rhetoric. Under Bush they were big government in both word and deed, not just in deed.

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Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Fri 08 May , 2009 11:13 am
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One of the things that the article does not go into is the Sarah Palin factor. While we are still two to three years away from an active candidacy, it looks like the Alaskan Governor is making all the moves for a 2012 run. She should be the favorite of the teabagger crowd and the Wal Mart wing of the party. With the publicity about legalizing gay marriage, the social issue crowd would well be even more angry at that time. If there is no mainstream consensus candidate within the Wall Street wing of the party, she could well rack up many wins in the early primaries and end up the nominee. Some would love that. But others see her as a very divisive figure who could well repeat the 1964 Goldwater debacle in the general election.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... -fear-her/" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

In the above article, we find that one of Palins biggest boosters is also one of the most beloved and despised people on the American political scene - Rush Limbaugh a man who proclaims that he has "talent on loan from God" while others view him as having a brain fried on oxycodone. Limbaugh comments on Palin regarding the recent rebranding situation:
Quote:
"Something else you have to understand is these people hate Palin too," the conservative radio host said Monday. "They despise Sarah Palin, they fear Sarah Palin, they don't like her either. She's, according to them she's embarrassing. McCain said, 'I was there with Ronald Reagan'…. No Reagan voter ever believed McCain was a Reaganite.

"And I think… a lot of this is aimed at Sarah Palin. When you strip all the talk — It's 'the Reagan era is over, stop all this nostalgia and stuff.' Clearly, in last year's campaign, the most prominent, articulate voice for standard, run-of-the-mill, good old-fashioned American conservatism was Sarah Palin. Now, everybody on this [NCNA] Speak to America tour has presidential perspirations [sic]. Mitt Romney there, he wants to be president again. Jeb may someday. Eric Cantor, some of the others, McCain — I don't think he does, but you never know. So this is an early campaign event, 2012 presidential campaign, primary campaign, with everybody there but Sarah Palin."
You have to ask yourself is having Rush Limbaugh on your side a good thing for Palin? By and large, Limbaugh was pretty much a failure in determining any political outcome in 2008.




from CG
Quote:
That's also the reason the Republican Party won't fall. The Democrats will save them, no matter what it takes, lest an actual opposition party rise up to replace it.
While I disagree totally, completely and utterly with that collusion based opinion, it does bring out an interesting question for discussion: who and what would make up another political party should the current Republican Party fail and go the way of the Whigs?

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