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Future of Republicanism

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Wed 25 Nov , 2009 6:58 pm
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Another example that the Republicans do not live in the same country as the rest of us.

http://www.dailykos.com/tv/w/002374/
Quote:
PERINO: Well, I...there is one thing that I would say about Ft. Hood that I feel strongly about, which is, and I don't say this to be political, I think it matters what we call it. And we had a terrorist attack on our country. And we should call it what it is because we need to face up to it so we can prevent it from happening again.

HANNITY: I agree with you, and why won't they say what you so simply just said.

PERINO: You know, they want to do all their investigations...I don't know their thinking that goes into it. But, you know, we did not have a terrorist attack on our country during President Bush's term. I hope they're not looking at this politically. I do think that we owe it to the American people to call it what it is.
Thats right folks.... there were no terrorist attacks on the USA when W. was President. Not a one. Now if you remember something that happened in September of 2001, you clearly are not drinking the same kool-aid as Ms. Perino does. And notice the reaction of FOX personality Sean Hannity who accepts what he just heard as the gospel truth.

Forget about what I said about not living in the same country as the rest of us. These folks do not even reside on the same planet.

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Jude
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Wed 25 Nov , 2009 7:10 pm
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You mean some Republicans don't live in the same country as the rest of you, right? :poke:

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Wed 25 Nov , 2009 7:48 pm
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Yup - like Sean Hannity and Dana Perino for example. :cool:

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Wed 25 Nov , 2009 8:58 pm
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Quote:
PERINO: You know, they want to do all their investigations...I don't know their thinking that goes into it. But, you know, we did not have a terrorist attack on our country during President Bush's term. I hope they're not looking at this politically. I do think that we owe it to the American people to call it what it is.
Thinking... that's it. Before the usual knee-jerk republican response, the military is THINKING about what the shooting really means. If it was a terrorist attack, then there may be more behind it. If it was a shooting, then there are different considerations behind it. I don't get the republicans. Is there something wrong with thinking before spouting conclusions? Oh, that shows weakness, right? These people like Hannity and Perino are not in the situation are free to monday morning quarterback the whole thing.

And September 11th happened on whose watch? Bill Clinton, right... because everything he did led up to it, even the government's decision to do nothing in the months leading up to the attack. Or was it Obama's watch because they hate Obama? Obviously, Sept 11th didn't happen on GWB's watch because of an time anomaly (inaugerated January 20th, 2001-left office January 19th, 2009, no way September 11th falls in that time period). So, if no attack happened during the GWB years, why did he start the war on terror?

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nienna
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Wed 25 Nov , 2009 10:39 pm
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Just unbelievable.... :roll:

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vison
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Thu 26 Nov , 2009 12:22 am
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Well, to be fair, and one must always try to be fair, I think they meant "other than 9/11", meaning, Mr. Bush did everything right after that so there were no MORE attacks?

I mean, I know some of these people are REALLY idiots but they surely can't mean "no attacks".

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Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Thu 26 Nov , 2009 1:01 am
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Well except for the fact that the Ft. Hood attack wasn't a terrorist attack. It was one unstable disturbed person who happened to be Muslim.

Then again GWB did nothing to make the economy fail either. The Deomcrats are sociolist (which makes no sense to me whatsoever, if the Democats were anything it would be communists). But what can we expect from Faux news.

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Tue 08 Dec , 2009 12:35 am
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Shades of NY23! A new poll from Rasmussen shows that a candidate running on the Tea Party label, would poll better than a Republican candidate. Both would lose to a generic Democratic party candidate.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...generic_ballot

Quote:
Running under the Tea Party brand may be better in congressional races than being a Republican.
In a three-way Generic Ballot test, the latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds Democrats attracting 36% of the vote. The Tea Party candidate picks up 23%, and Republicans finish third at 18%. Another 22% are undecided.
click on the link for the rest of the results

This poll convinces me more than ever that the time is more than ripe for a split in the Republican party.

And the Washington Post has a good article illustrating just how this is now happening:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... id=topnews
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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Tue 22 Dec , 2009 10:00 pm
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Let us all hope this trend continues and all the extreme right wing Republicans win their primary elections next Spring.
courtesy of our friends at Dailykos.com
Quote:
KY-Sen: Rand Paul takes strong lead in GOP primary
by kos
Tue Dec 22, 2009 at 01:36:04 PM PST

PPP. 12/18-21. Likely voters. MoE 4.5% (No trend lines)

Republican primary

Paul (R) 44
Grayson (R) 25

That's Rand Paul, Ron's son. And the Paulites are responding with vigor, flooding his campaign with cash. Running against an incumbent politician is good business these days, even when (like Paul) you announce your campaign in New York City and clearly state that you have little interest in representing Kentucky interests. For Bluegrass State Republicans, that's apparently not a problem.

Grayson is not exactly a moderate, but in Kentucky teabagging circles he's become one. He's a former Democrat who voted for Bill Clinton in 1992, and is blamed by fans of ultra-conservative Jim Bunning for helping push the senile senator into earlier retirement.

A Research 2000 poll of Kentucky for Daily Kos back in early September (so a bit dated) had Democrats running stronger against Paul, and that's not likely to change. While Grayson has proven statewide viability with two elections as Kentucky Secretary of State under his belt, including a 2004 victory that broke a three-decade Democratic stranglehold on his state's top offices. The dude has obvious statewide appeal, compared to Rand -- the unaccomplished teabagging son of a fringe backbencher congressman from Texas.

Democrats have strong contenders for this seat as well -- Attorney General Jack Conway and Lt. Gov. Dan Mongiardo -- so this was already shaping up to be a battle of titans (Conway leads 37-33 in the Democratic primary, according to this PPP poll). It's likely the pollsters will release general election numbers soon enough, but we can probably bet that Grayson performs better in the general against those Democrats than the fringier Paul will. If teabaggers want to help by taking out their most electable general election guy, so much the better. We'll need all the assistance we can get in 2010.
This is some of the best news of the week for Democrats. A radical right winger like Paul will be much easier to beat in the November election. The fall of Crist in Florida also demonstrates that the right wing is hellbent on having their day no matter what lesson they should have learned from NY23.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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Lord_Morningstar
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Fri 25 Dec , 2009 10:58 pm
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It seems that one of the sponsors of CPAC 2010 is the John Birch Society. That says a lot about the current state of the conservative movement in America today, and little of it good.

More from (ex-?) conservative blogger Charles Johnson.

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Mon 28 Dec , 2009 6:21 pm
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I know how much the Tea Parties are hated here (because people are actually having the gall to suggest that taxes might be too high, and that is probably treason) but never fear, the differences between the right-wing members of the tea parties and the libertarian members of the tea parties are straining the movement.

Tea Party Purge -- A Cause Without a Rebel
Quote:
The Tea Party movement has reconnected the cooperation between conservatives and libertarians that harks back to their mutual opposition to FDR’s big government days. But a host of these newly forged alliances have failed to take hold. There is an undercurrent of ill-fitting philosophies and anti-intellectual clashes that suggest freedom is not always brewing in many Tea Parties. One example of a Tea Party divorcing its libertarian brethren recently occurred in Monterey California.

I helped create a nine-member board for the Monterey County Tea Party after an April 15 demonstration that attracted 600 sign-carrying protestors. The match seemed perfect. We all agreed on a mission statement that supported smaller government, lower taxes, the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights. The libertarians wanted to include a non-interventionist plank, but, under pressure, were willing to forgo it for the sake of a peaceful alliance.

But after a successful 4^th of July Tea Party parade and Freedom Rally in Monterey, the cracks in the alliance split wide open. I was accused of belonging to too many leftist organizations. In fact, I am co-chair of the local Libertarians for Peace, which joined the 27-member Monterey County Peace Coalition to protest the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. But Libertarians for Peace is neither Left nor Right.

Looking back, the fur first hit the fan when Monterey CodePink asked to be one of the co-sponsors of the Tea Party Freedom Rally. I loved the idea of bringing together the anti-war and anti-tax crowds. But this possible alliance alarmed the conservatives. The Left and Right dehumanize each other daily on talk radio and cable news; so I should not have been surprised by their fierce determination to share no common ground with any leftist organization. To calm their fears I tried to put the issue in perspective. Nationwide, CodePink follows a socialist agenda; no argument there. But the Monterey branch of CodePink has worked with libertarians on both anti-war and anti-tax issues for years. In fact, the local Monterey CodePink leader was one of the most active signature-gathers in an attempt to abolish the utility tax in Seaside.

Next, I was accused of being too involved with the Libertarian Party, as if the Libertarians were somehow responsible for the financial meltdown, bailouts and stimulus packages. To their credit, the conservative flock wanted no association with Republicans or Democrats either, saying that both political parties had caused our current problems. But somehow they were upset with the Tea Party Board members who held leadership roles in the Libertarian Party. It did not seem to matter to them that libertarians were heavily involved in starting the Tea Party movement back in 2008, nor that the original 1773 tea partiers at Boston Harbor were classical liberals (libertarians), not Tories or conservatives.

Obviously, the Tea Party conservatives were neophytes; never before had they been involved in political activism. Some had never heard of Congressman Ron Paul. Prof. David R. Henderson, one of the libertarian Tea Party Board members, described this curious phenomenon as "activism without ideals." I thought my phrase captured it best: "a cause without a rebel." In fact, as demands to purge the libertarians intensified, we got the distinct feeling that the purgers fit the category of "reactionary" since they seemed to know only what they were against, not what they were for. Amazingly, they never pointed out any philosophical differences that they found objectionable. It was as if they were devoid of ideas, marooned with empty rhetoric and no real solutions.

One of my major crimes was passing out several copies of my book — /Facets of Liberty/. This occurred at a Tea Party event billed as a "mixer." A few days later I was told that I should have neither passed out educational material nor mixed with the crowd. The libertarians soon labeled this misnamed event the non-mixer mixer.

In retrospect, it did not help our case when we asked these rookies embarrassing questions. We asked them why they had done nothing when President Bush bailed out the banks and auto companies, spent money like a drunken sailor, bashed civil liberties and advanced socialized medicine with Medicare Prescription Drug law, a program that some in Congress estimated will have a price tag of $1.2 trillion by 2016. I suppose our questioning merely rubbed their noises too deeply in their ignorance.

Whatever the reasons, the Monterey County Tea Party purged the libertarians by dissolving the entire organization. That failed to stop us. The libertarians quickly formed the Liberty Tea Party and, in an effort to set up a large tent, invited everyone to join a more enlightened Tea Party.
The right-wing would rather dissolve a Tea Party than have libertarians attend it. Fascinating, especially since the ill-informed can't even tell the difference between right-wing and libertarian.

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Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Mon 28 Dec , 2009 6:47 pm
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C_G

I swing pretty liberatarian on certain issues and if I mention those issues around Republicans they flinch. I often wonder why if they want less government, why they don't want less government on moral, religous and law enforcement issues. This is why I don't believe the GOP and Dems are all that different, they just have different causes. The Dems want more government involvement in social issues, the GOP wants more government in law enforcement, gay marriage and abortion issues. To me it makes me think at least the Dems are forthright about their intentions where the GOP does the double standard crap, no government in banking but the government damn well better tell gays they can't get married.

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Mon 28 Dec , 2009 9:17 pm
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The American political spectrum is very wide taking in many different ideologies and belief systems when it comes to government, power and the citizenry. Its a lot like personality types when it comes to individuals. Some people are just naturally happy in in a good mood most all of the time. They are a joy to be around, can be the life of the party, always are seeing the positive side of most things, and are generally ‘the glass is half full’- if not more - type of people. Then there are the opposite, people who are almost always sad or gloomy. They are real downers and can kill the buzz at a party faster than a cold rain in September. They are ‘the glass is half empty’ - if not even less - type of people. They are easy to identify and apply a personality type to them.

I once knew a person who had a serious case of bi-polar illness. Most of the time, they tended to be rather quiet and unassuming and blended in with the wallpaper. Once in a while they were on the manic phase and could be the life of the party and a real live wire but such times were rare and to be remembered. Much more often, they were at the low point - in deep depression and you did not want to be within a mile of them since they just dripped and oozed sadness and despair. It is a sad condition and those unfortunate to have it have my sympathy and understanding.

Modern medicine considers such a condition as rare and as abnormal. Modern medicine has developed drugs and treatment for it and that is a very good thing when people can be helped to lead a much more productive and normal life.

Libertarians like to puff out their chest and tell you how “I am special” ..... “I am different” .... “I defy the traditional continuum of the political spectrum”. On some issues they are far right... on some issues they are far left ... and on some issues they are moderates. In that regard they are like the abnormal mental illness of bi-polarism of political ideologies.

Its too bad you cannot just give them some prescribed medication and cure or help cope with that illness.

Of course, when you look closely at the issues of the day, most libertarians fall firmly on the far right of the spectrum on the really important issues. You see, I do not give a flying crap about legalizing drugs. The issue means nothing to me and if I could care less about it then I suppose I would. But the issue is meaningless to me.

The same thing with something pornography. I just do not care because it does not impact my life or my life style one iota. To be rather frank and honest about it - I do not smoke dope or use drugs... never have. Dirty pictures never really have cut it for me either. And those are the so-called issues in which libertarians lean to the Left on.

All the other stuff which I care about deeply; the rights of organized labor and the working person, civil rights for ethnic and racial minority groups, fighting corporate power, using the power of government to create a fairer and more equitable society for all, achieving a fairer distribution of income, achieving a fairer tax policy to insure proper citizen services, protecting important programs like Social Security and Medicare, health insurance reform, having a strong system of public education, .... the list goes on .... on all those issues libertarians are on the far right wing.

That is why myself and many other people associate libertarians with the right wing. On the really important issues of the day, they are indeed radical right wingers who are reactionaries. If they got their way on policy issues, we would find ourselves back in the bad old days of the 19th centuries Gilded Age.

No thank you. Been there and done that.

I am reminded of the comedian Kevin Meeney who was popular in the 1980’s and 90’s. He used to do a routine where he talked about things that some people thought were important, things that some people thought were critical to their lives. Then he would launch into a song.....

http://www.kevinmeaney.com/audio/KEVIN_MEANEY-.mp3

“I don’t care ..... I don’t care....
I don’t care, I don’t care, I don’t care.”


A really great routine and it describes perfectly how I feel about the libertarians “left” issues. When it comes down to the really important stuff - on which side of the line they fall in the fight against corporate power and the rich - they are firmly on the ultra conservative right wing reactionary side.

And that is what I care about more that trivial crap like legalizing drugs or pornography. In fact, the rich corporations and their apologists, toadies and servants would be more than happy to let as many of us as possible go through life stoned out of our minds with a giant stack of pornography at the ready if we only will just allow them to have the real wealth and the power that goes with it in this country. Sorry, that deal does not appeal to me.

So libertarians can claim both ends of the political spectrum just the same way that people burdened with bi-polar illness can claim to be the life of the party on some days and depressed and near suicide on other days. The not so funny thing is that people with bi-polar disease did not select it or decide to have it. Libertarians actually opted for their disfunctional ideological illness.

For them, sadly, the glass is always empty with no chance of ever having as much as a drop in it.

Last edited by sauronsfinger on Mon 28 Dec , 2009 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Mon 28 Dec , 2009 9:34 pm
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The problem with not caring about drugs and drug use is a huge problem in the US. The US imports something like 80% of illegal drugs, a good deal of those drugs happen to be opiates. The major supplier of opiates...Afghanistan. Who controls those poppy fields in Afghanistan. The same thing can be said of weed, we must import more than 80% of the pot in the world, we import it from Mexico. And fighting the Mexican Drug lords is a huge expense for the US government. We wouldn't have this problem if we didn't use either.

Oil and Drugs, we import them from our enemies. Yet we refuse to think their is a connection, just keep the supply going. That is why getting rid of the drug lord is not going to work, ever. The addiction has to be addressed, once both those addictions are gone, those who sell us the product have no money to train anyone to do anything to us.

As for porn, it is one of the largest corporations in the US. So saying it doesn't play a part in the economy or in the whole of the well being of the US is putting one's deeply in the sand. In fact GWB gave stimulus monies to the porn industry. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/0 ... 10457.html

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yovargas
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Mon 28 Dec , 2009 10:51 pm
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Quote:
I know how much the Tea Parties are hated here (because people are actually having the gall to suggest that taxes might be too high, and that is probably treason)...
That and massive ignorance (death panels?), occasional racism, and a general air of extremism.


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Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Mon 28 Dec , 2009 11:13 pm
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Yov

After reading C_G's article I think the Libertarians were kicked out of the Tea Party because they were asking such questions, including were where the tea partiers when GWB was offering bailouts, raising the cost of medicare ect. The tea partiers had no answer, basically the article was saying the tea baggers were protesting just to protest and had no idea what they actually wanted. And when questioned the Libertarians were called liberals.

IMHO when McCain, the Libertarians ect., are liberals the right wing has swung way way too right. The tea baggers seem hell bent on bashing anyone anywhere who question any of their motives and if anyone dare question them that group or person is a liberal. Absolutely no tolerance or even ability to talk about what they want, just the rest of the world can go to hell becaus they are all wrong.

Anyway that is what I took from the article. And I have seen and heard it here where I am at too. It is purely if you are not with us, then you are sinner and should be smote to hell and must be a closet liberal.

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Mon 28 Dec , 2009 11:34 pm
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I saw this once in the middle of an oversized six foot donut on a wall in a coffee shop in washington DC
Quote:
As you ramble on through Life, Brother, whatever be your Goal, keep your eye upon the Doughnut and not upon the hole. ..
Focus on what is there, not what is not there ....
look at the big picture and not at just a single detail...
don't get blinded by one tree when there is a whole forest to examine.

Regardless of a single event in one tiny chapter of an individual states Tea party organization, there has been, and there is now and alliance between libertarians and the tea party people across the entire United States of America . These people unite in common purpose because they both have a strong hatred of what they call Big Government. In February, they join forces at the CPAC convention in Washington and even the libertarian pin-up boy Ron Paul has been asked to be there to join with the other right wing conservatives and teabaggers.

from the CPAC website
Quote:
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year

From CPAC and Our More Than 100 Cosponsors and Exhibitors

Click here to register online for CPAC 2010!

Invited Speakers Include:
Amb. John Bolton*, Andrew Breitbart*, Herman Cain*, Ann Coulter*, Hon. Newt Gingrich, Doug Hoffman*, Hon. Mike Huckabee, Gov. Bobby Jindal, David Keene*, Wayne LaPierre*, Mark Levin*, Rush Limbaugh, Gov.-elect Bob McDonnell, Hon. Sarah Palin (Invited, Not Confirmed), Rep. Ron Paul, Gov. Tim Pawlenty*, Hon. Mitt Romney*, Marco Rubio*, and many more!


“CPAC has consistently over the years championed those ideas that have made America great: limited government, free enterprise, low taxes and a strong national defense.”
- Vice President Dick Cheney


“.. A showcase of the heart and soul of American conservatism”
- Los Angeles Times


“ CPAC is the preeminent yearly gathering of conservative activists.”
- The Washington Post
here is an example of the Tea Party in Georgia honoring a Libertarian party official

http://politicalpitstop.blogspot.com/20 ... adams.html

and more evidence
http://www.independentpoliticalreport.c ... dea-first/

an excerpt
Quote:
Dear friend,

Will you be attending a Tea Party this Wednesday?

Many Libertarians will, and millions of Americans will be joining them.

I’m, of course, referring to the thousands of “Tax Day Tea Parties” that will be held across the nation on April 15, to coincide with the filing deadline for individual income tax returns.
and an open invitation to both to unite in common purpose

http://www.independentpoliticalreport.c ... nt-page-1/

a small portion to give you the flavor of the alliance
Quote:
Libertarians cordially invite you to a Tea Party
April 9th, 2009 · 33 Comments

Press Release

Anti-tax rallies “the kind of ‘community organizing’ Obama should have been doing”

WASHINGTON — America’s third largest party is urging Americans to join millions of libertarians and other advocates of economic freedom at one of thousands of “Tea Parties” being held on April 15.
and more alliances between the liberty right and the tea party

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alex-bran ... 80626.html

Keep you eye on the donut and not on the hole.

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Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Tue 29 Dec , 2009 1:10 am
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I do see the whole picture, thank you very much.

In fact I see some seats going to the GOP in the next election, and I also see that it will come back to bite them in the butt. I might even go so far to see that they might win the next Presidetial Electional, and they will blow it. They will blow it because they have no substance or ideas, just protesting. They have no idea other than to do what has always been done, and that has landed us exactly where we are at now. And in the end the GOP will either fade completely away or begin rebuilding without the tea party tactics.

Right now Beck, Limbaugh, Coulter and Palin are lauded as heros, give it time, they will be ran out of town. Especially if the gap between those who have and those who have not grows.

There will be another American Revolution, however the tea baggers are not it. They are nothing more than
A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. They may gain a bit of power in the next few years, but it will wax and wain until it is gone. The reason is because they have no substance, no plans, no positive ideas, no real life solutions, just the ablity to protest things they do not understand and do not want to understand.

Even though the Libertarians and GOP do have things in common the Libertarians at least ask questions instead of just protesting for protesting sake.

And I don't eat donuts. ever. Its a whole new idea. There is no donut - there is no hole.

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nienna
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Tue 29 Dec , 2009 8:58 am
The best things in life are not things
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All this talk of doughnuts reminds me of dear old Oscar Wilde, who said:
Quote:
“Between the optimist and the pessimist, the difference is droll. The optimist sees the doughnut; the pessimist the hole!”
Of course, that well-known American philosopher, Chevy Chase, once remarked that "a donut without a hole is a Danish..." :D

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There is magic in long-distance friendships. They let you relate to other human beings in a way that goes beyond being physically together and is often more profound.
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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Future of Republicanism
Posted: Tue 29 Dec , 2009 12:55 pm
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Nienna --- you are without a doubt the Queen of those smilie thingies. No matter what is being discussed you manage to come up with a smilie that fits perfectly in the discussion. The other day it was Sherlock Holmes and now Homer Simpson. Well done. :toast:

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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