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PostPosted: Tue 21 Apr , 2009 4:21 pm 
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Can the End of the World stuff be split into an End of the World thread?

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Tue 21 Apr , 2009 4:23 pm 
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from CG

Quote:
Can the End of the World stuff be split into an End of the World thread?


Well then you will have to argue with these people on page one of this very thread who brought up such dire and gloomy stuff to begin this very thread:
from LiliRose on page one of this thread

Quote:
haven't alarmist types been saying dire things like that for years????


response from thread starter CG



Quote:
Ever since we saw it coming. The difference is that the warning is no longer "it's coming" but "it's here". We are no longer approaching the event horizon, we are starting to fall in.

We're only in the early stages of it right now though.


from Eborr on page 2 of this thread

Quote:
at one level deep joy the capitalist world is falling apart, there is something deeply right about this.

The sad thing is that the misguided will suffer, the greedy fools who formed a queue outside Northern Rock may see their life savings expunged, but the slimy really greedy gits will survive, cos they always do.


Dave Lf put up this information from Jim Kuntsler also on page 2

Quote:
When historians glance back at 2007 through the haze of their coal-fired stoves, they will mark this year as the onset of the Long Emergency – or whatever they choose to call the unraveling of industrial economies and the complex systems that constituted them. And if they retain any sense of humor – which is very likely since, as wise Sam Beckett once averred, nothing is funnier than unhappiness – they will chuckle at the assumptions that drove the doings and mental operations of those in charge back then (i.e. now).


On page three of this bvery thread, Dave put up some information from Pat Buchanan as follows

Quote:
"America is coming apart, decomposing, and...the likelihood of her survival as one nation...is improbable -- and impossible if America continues on her current course," declares Pat Buchanan. "For we are on a path to national suicide."

The best-selling author and former presidential candidate is on the eve of launching his new epic book: DAY OF RECKONING: HOW HUBRIS, IDEOLOGY AND GREED ARE TEARING AMERICA APART.

[The book's release date has been moved up to this week. It ranked #237 on AMAZON's hitparade Monday morning.]

This time, Buchanan goes all the way:

"America is in an existential crisis from which the nation may not survive."

The U.S. Army is breaking and is too small to meet America’s global commitments.

The dollar has sunk to historic lows and is being abandoned by foreign governments.

U.S. manufacturing is being hollowed out.

The greatest invasion in history, from the Third World, is swamping the ethno-cultural core of the country, leading to Balkanization and the loss of the Southwest to Mexico.


The culture is collapsing and the nation is being deconstructed along the lines of race and class.

A fiscal crisis looms as the unfunded mandates of Social Security and Medicare remain unaddressed.

All these crises are hitting America at once -- a perfect storm of crises.


from Maria on page six of this thread

Quote:
It seems like I've been expecting the end of civilization for the past 30 years, but it keeps *not* happening yet. I've had time to prepare- and have done so, somewhat. But I live 20 miles away from a city of 120,000 people, so if everything crashes, I don't see how we can hold out against hordes of hungry people. All my self sufficiency preparation won't help if a mob of 50 to a 100 people come raiding on our place. We don't have the means of fighting off that many, unless they scare really easy.


from Aulini on page six of this thread

Quote:
Personally, I just can't come to any other conclusion than once you get past a certain point - whenever that point may be - the complexity of running the most vital infrastructure of our societies will just be impossible to maintain. That means empty stores, no national state, no electricity, no running water, dog-eat-dog anarchy. I really, really don't like that scenario, and I hope that I will be proven wrong.


from MariaHobbit on page seven

Quote:
I've got all kinds of reference books at home. Every time I get interested in a new skill that might be involved in surviving with minimal or collapsed civilization, I end up getting a book on the subject. I've got manuals on edible wild plants of North America, basket weaving, canning and drying food, smoking meat & making sausages, soap making, various books on raising various kinds of livestock, black smithing, building barns and sheds... the list goes on and on. And, of course, we have many "how too" books galore on civilized skills like framing, plumbing and wiring houses. And setting tile.



You want a dozen more examples that this thread has always been about doom and gloom?

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


Last edited by sauronsfinger on Tue 21 Apr , 2009 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue 21 Apr , 2009 4:57 pm 
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SF, in that post, both the things with my name attached to them are me quoting someone else. With the second one you made it clear that the words were Pat Buchanan's, but the first one comes from Jim Kunstler.


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PostPosted: Tue 21 Apr , 2009 5:01 pm 
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Dave - thanks ... I have added that.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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PostPosted: Tue 21 Apr , 2009 6:07 pm 
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Oh, don't split the thread! This is the natural consequence of talking about economic collapse causing the end of the world ---> survivalism in general -----> other apocalyptic theories. It would disturb the flow if you chop out part and put it elsewhere.

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PostPosted: Tue 21 Apr , 2009 6:40 pm 
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Ultimately, it's CG's thread, and I think he can request it be split when he wants it. I personally don't see the harm in leaving the current discussion here as I feel it is part and parcel of the topic, but it's not my thread. :shrug:

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PostPosted: Tue 21 Apr , 2009 7:12 pm 
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If we started talking about lambs chasing dogs around the yard as a sign of the impending apocalypse, I could understand wanting to get it off the thread.... but we didn't go there, did we? :P

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PostPosted: Tue 21 Apr , 2009 7:17 pm 
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Maria is 100% correct :yes:

everything has been on topic --- from the very start of this thread on page one many people have mentioned the darkest possible results of the economic turndown and there was no call to split anything ....

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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PostPosted: Tue 21 Apr , 2009 7:26 pm 
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LalaithUrwen wrote:
Ultimately, it's CG's thread, and I think he can request it be split when he wants it. I personally don't see the harm in leaving the current discussion here as I feel it is part and parcel of the topic, but it's not my thread. :shrug:


There's more than a little difference between discussing a severe recession or depression (or at the extreme an economic collapse) and discussing great Cthulhu rising from the depths.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh C'thulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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PostPosted: Tue 21 Apr , 2009 7:42 pm 
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Quote:
There's more than a little difference between discussing a severe recession or depression (or at the extreme an economic collapse) and discussing great Cthulhu rising from the depths.


Which not one person has mentioned. Not one... except you.

There is a fundamntal issue here and that is your attempt to control and dictate what people talk about in this thread. MariaHobbit said it very well

Quote:
Oh, don't split the thread! This is the natural consequence of talking about economic collapse causing the end of the world ---> survivalism in general -----> other apocalyptic theories. It would disturb the flow if you chop out part and put it elsewhere.

If we started talking about lambs chasing dogs around the yard as a sign of the impending apocalypse, I could understand wanting to get it off the thread.... but we didn't go there, did we?


Everything has been on topic. And lets be frank and honest here - right from the post which opened this thread, the tone was to scare folks into thinking that really bad stuff was going to happen with the economy. But now the thread starter fears that people are going in a direction that he cannot control.

As Maria wisely pointed out, this is a natural outgrowth of the topic.

"For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the
whirlwind:" (Hosea 8:7a KJV)



So lets see if I get this straight - anybody who starts a thread can control what goes in it and if they do not like something they can request it be segregated out of it even though others in the thread see it as being on topic and perfectly fine? Sounds nonsensical to me.

But if the thread has to be broken off to protect the threadmaker who fears losing control of it because it is not going in is direction, so be it. We will all learn a valuable lesson from the expience.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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PostPosted: Tue 21 Apr , 2009 8:15 pm 
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I hadn't considered the possibility that Cthulhu might see the current disorder as an excuse to show up and wreck havoc, but now that you mention it...

I suspect CG's concern is based on past experience with a binary-thinking and frequently scornful public that is unable to distinguish between "we're in trouble and the future will fundamentally and discontinuously differ from the present" and "Cthulhu is rising from the depths". Something with which I can sympathize.


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PostPosted: Tue 21 Apr , 2009 8:33 pm 
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The Flying Spaghetti Monster said to leave Cthulhu alone.

And if anyone has paid attention to some of the stuff that is said regarding the downfall of the US economy, a good lot of people do blame it on the end times. And well, God in whatever name, plays a huge part in it.


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