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If I'm going to come back, it should be to controversy :P

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Iavas_Saar
Post subject: If I'm going to come back, it should be to controversy :P
Posted: Mon 08 Jun , 2009 1:09 pm
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Hello all, hope you've been well :)

This might not mean too much to those in the US, but having listened to the leader of the BNP (British National Party) on the radio a couple of times now, most recently thismorning following their first ever European parliament seats:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8088381.stm

I don't think they are anywhere near as bad as the media and mainstream politicians make them out to be and would actually consider voting for them in the next general election.

*Wondering if I will now be called a racist...*

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Jude
Post subject: Re: If I'm going to come back, it should be to controversy :P
Posted: Mon 08 Jun , 2009 1:12 pm
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If I call you a racist, will you still love me? :P

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ToshoftheWuffingas
Post subject: Re: If I'm going to come back, it should be to controversy :P
Posted: Mon 08 Jun , 2009 1:24 pm
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Iavas, they are just a bunch of thugs in smart suits. Their recent minor successes will lead to some decent people being kicked to death in the streets. Sure, they have perfected the art of sounding reasonable. Vote UKIP if you have to but leave these slimy hooligans alone.

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RELStuart
Post subject: Re: If I'm going to come back, it should be to controversy :P
Posted: Mon 08 Jun , 2009 3:46 pm
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The Pirates are winning!!!


http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0608/p06s08-woeu.html" target="_blank

:D

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Riverthalos
Post subject: Re: If I'm going to come back, it should be to controversy :P
Posted: Mon 08 Jun , 2009 4:05 pm
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I gotta wonder what these people are so afraid of. But, then again, I'm posting from a country that only exists because of immigration. In Europe I guess it's a bit different. Still, this BNP thing smells kind of...off to me.

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RELStuart
Post subject: Re: If I'm going to come back, it should be to controversy :P
Posted: Mon 08 Jun , 2009 4:54 pm
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It is my understanding that leading muslims have in speeches talking about how they are conquoring Europe without firing a shot through outbreeding the local inhabitants and immigration. When you have a growing segment of the population that has a very different culture and religion that the one that the local populance is used to and this segment is growing bigger than the typical inhabitace I can understand them feeling a bit threatened. I am sure the American Indians could probably verify this can be an issue... Is it possible that in a not to distant future the majority of the people will be trying to put shariah law into effect in parts of Europe? These may be the types of questions some native Europeans are asking themselves.

I do not say their responses are right or their political parties are right. Frankly most native Europeans probably have no interest in fighting back by having more children of their own. So how do you preserve your native culture and county from this type of invasion? Violence in the streets is not a good answer. Reducing immigration may make a difference. But at this point some countries trends in the current birth rates already make this to late.

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vison
Post subject: Re: If I'm going to come back, it should be to controversy :P
Posted: Mon 08 Jun , 2009 5:41 pm
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A guy named King Knute once tried to stop the tide from coming in . . . .

Is he famous because he succeeded? :)

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Nin
Post subject: Re: If I'm going to come back, it should be to controversy :P
Posted: Mon 08 Jun , 2009 8:06 pm
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Isn't you wife an immigrant?

Oh, but it's not that kind of immigrant that they are up against, you know it's the others, those who are different and don't fit in our culture or who look different... I know it, I have heard that argument when saying in Switzerland that I would never, ever support be it only one initiative limiting immigration. I'm an immigrant, a naturalized. Now of course, it's never about people like me or Eru, with diplomas and speaking the language and not looking different...
But then - are you sure you know where the line is to be drawn?

Sorry to be polemic (and I'm aware of not speaking in anybody's name but my own.)

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Dave_LF
Post subject: Re: If I'm going to come back, it should be to controversy :P
Posted: Mon 08 Jun , 2009 9:40 pm
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Does the emphasis on the "indigenous majority" mean they favor giving the land back to the Celts and Picts? ;)

Welcome back, by the way.


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yovargas
Post subject: Re: If I'm going to come back, it should be to controversy :P
Posted: Mon 08 Jun , 2009 9:56 pm
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Quote:
Ms Harman said: "I think it's a terrible thing that we've now got representing Britain in the European Parliament a party that is a racist party, a party that doesn't believe black people should even be allowed to join this party."
True or false?


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Iavas_Saar
Post subject: Re: If I'm going to come back, it should be to controversy :P
Posted: Mon 08 Jun , 2009 10:38 pm
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Quote:
If I call you a racist, will you still love me?
love you? :Q

Quote:
Iavas, they are just a bunch of thugs in smart suits. Their recent minor successes will lead to some decent people being kicked to death in the streets. Sure, they have perfected the art of sounding reasonable. Vote UKIP if you have to but leave these slimy hooligans alone.
Well I am not claiming to know everything about this party, so educate me - what violence have their members directly incited in the past - are there documented cases? Can you give a bit more factual evidence to support your strong reaction?

Quote:
Isn't you wife an immigrant?

Oh, but it's not that kind of immigrant that they are up against, you know it's the others, those who are different and don't fit in our culture or who look different... I know it, I have heard that argument when saying in Switzerland that I would never, ever support be it only one initiative limiting immigration. I'm an immigrant, a naturalized. Now of course, it's never about people like me or Eru, with diplomas and speaking the language and not looking different...
But then - are you sure you know where the line is to be drawn?
Yes and I was an immigrant for a while in the US. Now I'm only going on what the leader of the party has said when interviewed - that they have no problem with other nationalities becoming citizens here, but that their ethnicity does not change as a result. That more effort should be made to maintain the livelyhood and culture of the indiginous population, but NOT through any form of violence or unfair treatment of individuals.

When I see certain nationalities flooding our towns because some powerful people didn't realise that open borders between countries of vastly different prosperity was a bad idea then I do start thinking about a party that really wants to do something about it. In no way do I want to prevent immigration, from any part of the world, but it should not be a free for all. I believe the indiginous people, however you define that now, have a right not to be gradually drowned out by other ethnicities.

Quote:
Does the emphasis on the "indigenous majority" mean they favor giving the land back to the Celts and Picts?
I would think you could distinguish population movements before the human race realised that empire-building, gaining control of resources by force, etc was not right/acceptable. Good question though :)


yov - I believe that is true. However, would an organisation specifically for one gender be labelled automatically as prejudiced against the other gender? I did not get the sense from the leader of the party when interviewed that he'd have any grievance with a UK citizen of black origin.

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ToshoftheWuffingas
Post subject: Re: If I'm going to come back, it should be to controversy :P
Posted: Mon 08 Jun , 2009 10:51 pm
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009 ... ook-expose" target="_blank


It doesn't take much of a search.

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Berhael
Post subject: Re: If I'm going to come back, it should be to controversy :P
Posted: Mon 08 Jun , 2009 10:55 pm
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I'm not going to bother composing a proper reply because, as stated, this thread is only looking to be polemic.

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Holbytla
Post subject: Re: If I'm going to come back, it should be to controversy :P
Posted: Tue 09 Jun , 2009 12:07 am
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Quote:
some powerful people didn't realise that open borders between countries of vastly different prosperity was a bad idea
Well then this begs the question, where do people go to escape poverty, war, famine, disease and a million other things?
Never heard of someone escaping perils to go to a place with the same or worse perils.

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Riverthalos
Post subject: Re: If I'm going to come back, it should be to controversy :P
Posted: Tue 09 Jun , 2009 12:38 am
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Go back far enough and the only place people are indigenous is East Africa and even then you have tribes invading other tribes' lands.

The US has a history of trying to shut out "undesirables", be they Irish, Eastern European, Asian, Mexican, etc. I know I've missed a few ethnic groups. We aren't very proud of that.

The issues faced by Europe are not that immigration is unchecked, it is that immigrants are not properly integrated. Integration is a tough and touchy thing, especially in the first generation. However, in the US, you don't see the children of immigrants, born in the US, growing up barely able to speak the local language. We don't have massive immigrant ghettoes full of unemployed, miserable, marginalized people. Rather, our ghettoes are a mix of immigrants and native who are unemployed, miserable, and marginalized together. :/

There's a lot to be said for the melting pot. Of course, there's a lot to be said for respecting other cultures. There's a strength in diversity, but, as laureanna said once, it has to come with inclusivity as well.

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elfshadow
Post subject: Re: If I'm going to come back, it should be to controversy :P
Posted: Tue 09 Jun , 2009 1:49 am
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Could someone possibly give a brief background to this ignorant American? :oops: I only know the very basics of UK and EU politics so I'm a rough on some of the processes in the article that Iavas posted. It sounds like the BNP is a pretty extremist fringe party (I'm looking at some of their platform points and kind of going into shock). How were they able to get two seats in the EU Parliament? :scratch: I seem to recollect that the EU Parliament elections have pretty low voter turnout and are the weakest of the three branches of the EU governance. Is it not very difficult for a minority political party to win one of these seats?

I guess, coming from an American political perspective, it seems almost absurd that such an extremist party could actually have enough votes to win a seat in an international governing body. But third-party candidates are so rarely elected here that I suppose that gives my perspective a bit of a bias.


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Lord_Morningstar
Post subject: Re: If I'm going to come back, it should be to controversy :P
Posted: Tue 09 Jun , 2009 2:25 am
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Elsha, the BNP is a right-wing political party that believes in preserving what it views as British culture and national identity, particularly in the face of immigration from non-Anglo cultures and integration with the EU. It’s one of a number of parties on the European right with similiar views, such as the French National Front. In the U.S., by contrast, the ‘harder’ right tends to be occupied by the economic libertarian, God and guns crowd - the protectionist nationalism of the BNP is more of a European thing.

My own view is that Europe certainly does have issues with unassimiliated and sometimes openly hostile immigrant communities. That said, I wouldn’t touch the BNP and their like with a barge pole. Hell, it’s even the prevailing view on LittleGreenFootballs.com that the BNP is little more than a cover for crypto-fascists. And while the party’s own platform might seem fairly moderate, a great number of the people behind the movement are anything but.

As to the election itself, its notable for being yet another crushing win for the Conservatives. Even following the allowances scandal they still seem set to walk in a victory at the next national election.

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RELStuart
Post subject: Re: If I'm going to come back, it should be to controversy :P
Posted: Tue 09 Jun , 2009 4:27 am
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Personally I thought the pirate party was more interesting. Fringe parties are not really that unusual. But one built around pirating things off the internet is new to me. :)

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yovargas
Post subject: Re: If I'm going to come back, it should be to controversy :P
Posted: Tue 09 Jun , 2009 4:39 am
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Quote:
yov - I believe that is true. However, would an organisation specifically for one gender be labelled automatically as prejudiced against the other gender?
No valid political party should exclude any citizen from its membership.
This one fact alone is enough for me to deem this group despicable.


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Lidless
Post subject: Re: If I'm going to come back, it should be to controversy :P
Posted: Tue 09 Jun , 2009 6:41 am
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Iavas wrote:
Yes and I was an immigrant for a while in the US. Now I'm only going on what the leader of the party has said when interviewed - that they have no problem with other nationalities becoming citizens here, but that their ethnicity does not change as a result.
Well he was talking bullshit. As ever, read the smallprint. From the BNP Constitution:
(http://web.archive.org/web/200706290100 ... on_8ed.pdf" target="_blank)
Quote:
POLITICAL OBJECTIVES
The British National Party stands for the preservation of the national and ethnic
character of the British people and is wholly opposed to any form of racial
integration between British and non-European peoples. It is therefore committed
to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring, by
legal changes, negotiation and consent, the overwhelmingly white makeup of the
British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948.

MEMBERSHIP
The British National Party represents the collective National, Environmental, Political,
Racial, Folkish, Social, Cultural, Religious and Economic interests of the indigenous
Anglo-Saxon, Celtic and Norse folk communities of Britain and those we regard as
closely related and ethnically assimilated or assimilable aboriginal members of the
European race also resident in Britain. Membership of the BNP is strictly defined
within the terms of, and our members also self define themselves within, the legal
ambit of a defined ‘racial group’ this being ‘Indigenous Caucasian’ and defined ‘ethnic
groups’ emanating from that Race as specified in law in the House of Lords case of
Mandla V Dowell Lee (1983) 1 ALL ER 1062, HL.

The indigenous British ethnic groups deriving from the class of ‘Indigenous
Caucasian’ consist of members of: i) The Anglo-Saxon Folk Community; ii) The Celtic
Scottish Folk Community; iii) The Scots-Northern Irish Folk Community; iv) The
Celtic Welsh Folk Community; v) The Celtic Irish Folk Community; vi) The Celtic
Cornish Folk Community; vii) The Anglo-Saxon-Celtic Folk Community; viii) The
Celtic-Norse Folk Community; ix) The Anglo-Saxon-Norse Folk Community; x) The
Anglo-Saxon-Indigenous European Folk Community; xi) Members of these ethnic
groups who reside either within or outside Europe but ethnically derive from them.
So it has nothing to do with Christian or Muslim, born in the UK or a recent immigrant, breeding rates or anything like that.

You simply have to be not white to be not wanted.
Iavas_Saar wrote:
I don't think they are anywhere near as bad as the media and mainstream politicians make them out to be and would actually consider voting for them in the next general election.

*Wondering if I will now be called a racist...*
Only a racist, by the very definition of the word, can sign up to this agenda, whether violence is involved, incited, or not. Non-whites will not be forced out of the country, but 'forcefully encouraged', whatever that means. If they stay, even if they are Christians born in the UK, they will be merely 'guests'. Uninvited guests. Mixed marriages are also frowned upon, as it destroys the race.

Is this just another example of you being unhappy in life and looking to point the finger at a convenient scapegoat - a channel for the frustration?

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