board77

Something to consider: when you shoplift an inexpensive item (a toothbrush for example), you are guilty of petty larceny. A judge won't send you up the river for 5 years to teach you a lesson, or deter others unless we live in Syria. There is no petty copyright infringement, which is another reason that the law is way behind the technology. If she is morally guilty of stealing music, why is it right to convict her of copyright infringement? Her intentions were probably to listen to some free music, not use that music for profit, and deny a company the rightful compensation for it.

Stealing music should be dealt with as larceny.

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The 11/3 Project

From what I recall, there is a legal precedent that fines of up to 9 times the value of whatever is stolen is acceptable, and since this is 800000 times the value of whatever is stolen that makes it unacceptable.

Given 24 songs, $1.50 per song, and a non-cruel and unusual punishment ratio of 9, this woman should be fined $729.00

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total

Even if that formula (9 times the value stolen) can be substantiated with actual evidence that it exists, the amount in question here was NOT A FINE. Violation of the US copyright law is not handled as something equal to shoplifting. To compare it to other fines is comparing two very different things.

I agree that technology has advanced so far beyond the law that something needs to be done to bring both together.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers

What she is accused of is NOT an example of copyright infringement. She isn't downloading the song for mass distribution unlike those chinese venders in NYC that sell movies on the side of the street. That is an actually example of copyright infringement. Stealing a song for your ipod is petty larceny, but that would require a criminal case, not a civil case. People talk about doing what is right, but in this case what is legal is not right. The record companies know they will get more in a settlement for copyright infringement because the punishment for petty larceny is far less than for copyright infringement. The charge isn't fitting the crime committed.

Continuing to prosecute people for "copyright infringement" when the crime isn't so perpetuates the culture that continues to keep the dinosaurs roaring.

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The 11/3 Project

I like the 9 times factor for larceny, copyright etc. If laws were put in place where the fine was the higher of:

9 times the victim's lost earnings / spent money on recovery (reasonable costs)
9 times the perp's profit on resale
USD 500

that seems more than reasonable to me.

Of course that lovely mathematical equation all falls apart when something stolen does not have a price tag and there is an intrinsic value - such as a necklace which is an heirloom, or a sex video.

So I guess it's limited to goods for sale. Happy with that.

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Screenshot from the upcoming ROTK: EEE. PJ, I love ya and all you've done to put us Tolkien geeks into the mainstream, but this crosses a line.