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Paying for Health Care

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vison
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Wed 19 Aug , 2009 6:38 pm
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I do very much sincerely hope that Mr. Obama's SS agents are good at their jobs.

The atmosphere these fools are creating is very dangerous. They are playing with fire.

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ToshoftheWuffingas
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Wed 19 Aug , 2009 7:02 pm
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Eru, you could follow the link in my FB profile. The title of the poll is stacked though.

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Estel
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Wed 19 Aug , 2009 8:16 pm
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TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
New York doesn't get much of those because we're better than everyone else. Sorry the rest of America.
No need to be sorry... cause it's not true :P Wisconsin has the only senator who voted against the Patriot Act. So yeah, it's automatically better because of that.

Sorry :razz:


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TheEllipticalDisillusion
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Wed 19 Aug , 2009 9:06 pm
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Estel wrote:
TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
New York doesn't get much of those because we're better than everyone else. Sorry the rest of America.
No need to be sorry... cause it's not true :P Wisconsin has the only senator who voted against the Patriot Act. So yeah, it's automatically better because of that.

Sorry :razz:
Right, because terrorists want to fly planes into your cheese, and grain silos. :razz:

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Estel
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Wed 19 Aug , 2009 10:07 pm
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Don't forget, New York wanted to be the dairy state but Wisconsin won out.

Ah, the power of cheese ;)


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Dave_LF
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Wed 19 Aug , 2009 10:20 pm
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How very true. There are a lot of things I miss about that place.

And I prefer farmers to insurance executives and investment bankers at the moment, thank you very much. :razz:


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TheEllipticalDisillusion
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Wed 19 Aug , 2009 10:23 pm
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When did NY want to be the dairy state?

I prefer investment bankers to hipsters, so where does that leave me? In Midtown and Wall Street, and out of Brooklyn.

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Wed 19 Aug , 2009 11:47 pm
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On Hardball, former Senator Tom Delay just told Chris Matthews that he wants the government out of his health care. What private insurer did this guy use when he was a Senator? Who pays for the health care of CONGRESSMEN? Then he wants Obama to produce his birth certificate, then equates that with someone asking him for his proof of residency in Texas. Delay also thinks having his conceal carry license taken away after being indicted is wrong. If anyone wants to know why Democrats think that Republicans are morons, this is a good reason.

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elfshadow
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Thu 20 Aug , 2009 12:04 am
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Tom DeLay is going to be on next season's Dancing With The Stars. Can't wait for that. :LMAO:


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Dave_LF
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Thu 20 Aug , 2009 4:43 pm
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Some of the best commentary is coming from overseas. There's so much good stuff in this Independent editorial, I can't pick out anything to quote:

Republicans, Religion, and Triumph of Unreason

Edit: From this side of the ocean, The Atlantic argues that maybe the whole concept of health insurance is flawed, and that only catastrophes should be covered with everything else coming out of pocket (with subsidies and tax deductions for the poor).

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200909/health-care

See the summary at electoral-vote too:
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2009/S ... 7-s.html#1


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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Thu 20 Aug , 2009 7:49 pm
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The Secret Service determined that the gun-toting black guy was not a threat. I think they know their job.

Never forget that the President is constantly surrounded by hundreds of people with guns. True they are government guns, and the hoplophobes for some reason don't fear those.

No politician, from the lowest City Councilman up to the President, should have any reason to fear meeting any legally armed American.

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Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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elfshadow
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Thu 20 Aug , 2009 8:03 pm
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Cenedril_Gildinaur wrote:
No politician, from the lowest City Councilman up to the President, should have any reason to fear meeting any legally armed American.
Ideally, no. Realistically, politicians can't just assume that a legally armed American they meet doesn't want to shoot them. There are some crazy people in this country--some of them have guns, and some of them don't. But the crazy people with guns are likely to be more dangerous than the crazy ones without. It's something any politician has to keep in mind.


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tinwe
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Thu 20 Aug , 2009 8:14 pm
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That's right, and as I have pointed out in gun-rights discussions before, "legally armed" does automatically preclude ignorant or crazy. I'm sure there are plenty of racist assholes out there whose arsenals are completely legal. That doesn't make it fine and dandy to show them off at presidential rallies.

I wonder what would have happened if someone had shown up at a Bush rally with an AK-47 strapped to their back? My guess is they would have been hauled off to Guantanamo and we would have never heard from them again. Good thing for these psychopaths those days are over, huh?

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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Thu 20 Aug , 2009 8:35 pm
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elfshadow wrote:
Cenedril_Gildinaur wrote:
No politician, from the lowest City Councilman up to the President, should have any reason to fear meeting any legally armed American.
Ideally, no. Realistically, politicians can't just assume that a legally armed American they meet doesn't want to shoot them. There are some crazy people in this country--some of them have guns, and some of them don't. But the crazy people with guns are likely to be more dangerous than the crazy ones without. It's something any politician has to keep in mind.
Crazy people without guns can also kill.
tinwë wrote:
That's right, and as I have pointed out in gun-rights discussions before, "legally armed" does automatically preclude ignorant or crazy. I'm sure there are plenty of racist assholes out there whose arsenals are completely legal. That doesn't make it fine and dandy to show them off at presidential rallies.
And there are plenty of people who are ignorant or crazy or racist who can kill without a gun.
tinwë wrote:
I wonder what would have happened if someone had shown up at a Bush rally with an AK-47 strapped to their back? My guess is they would have been hauled off to Guantanamo and we would have never heard from them again. Good thing for these psychopaths those days are over, huh?
Yes, Bush was even more of a fascist than most, and it is good his days as President are over.

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Thu 20 Aug , 2009 9:38 pm
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from CG
Quote:
No politician, from the lowest City Councilman up to the President, should have any reason to fear meeting any legally armed American.
Does the grass spring from under your feet as you walk along bare pavement spurred on because of the heavy influx of manure? Your statement is one of the most absurd and offensive I have ever heard from you. And believe me CG, you have said much in both of those categories to have something top it both ways.

John Wilkes Booth was legally armed. In 1865 he used that legal weapon to shoot and kill President Abraham Lincoln.

Charles Guiteau was legally armed. In 1881 he used that legal weapon to shoot and kill President James Garfield.

Leon Czolgosz was legally armed. In 1901 he used that legal weapon to shoot and kill President William McKinley.

Lee Harvey Oswald was legally armed. In 1963 he used that legal weapon to shoot and kill President John F. Kennedy.

And that is only the dead ones. Plenty more Presidents, Senators, Governors and even Mayors have been shot, wounded or even killed by citizens carrying your freakin precious "legal firearms".

This time you win the prize CG.

Last edited by sauronsfinger on Thu 20 Aug , 2009 10:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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elfshadow
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Thu 20 Aug , 2009 10:09 pm
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I know that crazy people without guns can kill. I said crazy people with guns are more likely to be dangerous, particularly to a well-protected politician. It's difficult to kill someone at long range with a weapon other than a gun. These days, with the Secret Service, it would be pretty difficult if not impossible for a would-be killer to get close enough to the president to kill him with a knife, or a rope, or a candlestick or a lead pipe (in the Billiard Room :D ). Guns just make it that much easier for a crazy person to attempt an assassination.


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TheEllipticalDisillusion
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Thu 20 Aug , 2009 11:07 pm
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The threat level of an armed person (crazy or not) is greater, and deadlier than the threat level of an unarmed person (crazy or not). Think about why a person needs a gun at a health care rally. If he's holding a sign about liberty, then he may just be protesting for the sake of protesting, but what if he's holding a sign that opposes the public option, and he's packing heat. Now take me as a proponent of the public option sees this man with the gun opposing my view. I would not be deterred in holding up my sign, but what about some of the other people? Would everyone be as determined as me, or would people hide their signs out of fear because of the man with the gun? The entire point of bringing a weapon to a rally about anything except weapons is to intimidate other people. Just because his gun is legal, I don't know how crazy he is, or is not because I can't read his mind. Sometimes I wonder if the pro-guns at protests people even think about something like that.

People were arrested at Bush protests for wearing t-shirts. I'm speechless that republicans on t.v. think that armed protesters is just fine, and dandy.

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elfshadow
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Fri 21 Aug , 2009 2:14 am
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Guns tend to be a bad idea in almost any situation where people are likely to get angry. That pretty much describes the town hall meetings and protests on health reform to a T. People on both sides are pissed off. Add a few firearms into the mix, legal or not, and you've got an accident waiting to happen. IMO. I think it's pretty damn stupid to carry a gun to a presidential event just to emphasize your right to do so. There are lots of stupid things that are legal, and this is just about at the top of the list.


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Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Fri 21 Aug , 2009 3:16 am
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TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
The threat level of an armed person (crazy or not) is greater, and deadlier than the threat level of an unarmed person (crazy or not).
I think the threat level of a crazy person (armed or not) is greater and deadlier than the threat level of a sane person (armed or not).

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It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


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laureanna
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Fri 21 Aug , 2009 4:14 am
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Cenedril_Gildinaur wrote:
TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
The threat level of an armed person (crazy or not) is greater, and deadlier than the threat level of an unarmed person (crazy or not).
I think the threat level of a crazy person (armed or not) is greater and deadlier than the threat level of a sane person (armed or not).
Well, that's kind of a tautology. We define sane people as, among other things, less likely to suddenly pop somebody off for reasons that elude the rest of us.

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