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Message Board lawsuit raises issues

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Message Board lawsuit raises issues
Posted: Sat 18 Jul , 2009 2:25 pm
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This comes from CNN

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/07/17/pol ... index.html
Quote:
Black Philadelphia police sue over message board, say it's racist


By Jason Kessler
CNN

(CNN) -- A group of black Philadelphia police officers filed a federal lawsuit Thursday against their department, alleging an online forum geared toward city police is "infested with racist, white supremacist and anti-African-American content."


A group of black police officers claim other colleagues post racist messages on domelights.com during work.

The suit alleges white officers post on and moderate the privately operated site, Domelights.com, both on and off the job.

Domelights' users "often joke about the racially offensive commentary on the site ... or will mention them in front of black police officers," thus creating "a racially hostile work environment," according to lawyers for the all-black Guardian Civic League, the lead plaintiff in the suit.

A look at the site's forums Friday for racist comments found several possibilities.

Reads one: "In urban areas, it seems [African-Americans] living on welfare in paid for housing is ingrained in their culture as well as fighting. ... Kids, along with adults can't speak proper English or spell at a 3rd grade level, but they can sing among "theyselves" the lyrics to a rap song."

Said another Domelights user of an African-American woman: "She is a classic example of that exact non tax paying, no car insurance driving, bad weave wearing, all the whitey's are racist black women."

The site's tagline is "the voice of the good guys."

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Read the lawsuit (PDF) Warning: Contents may offend some readers (you need to go to the link to read it - sf)
"Every time African-Americans do or say something in our city, we get this backlash of cops who think they're anonymous on this Web site -- just racist, nasty, hurtful things about what we do," said Rochelle Bilal, the president of the Guardian Civic League and a 23-year veteran of the force.

The league's attorney said other black officers echo Bilal's statement.

"We've heard the same story over and over again, which is that [African-American officers] witness in the workplace Domelights being used and discussed [in a racial manner]," said Brian Mildenberg, whose firm is also representing a Philadelphia day camp that recently gained national attention when its mostly black campers were turned away from a swim club.

He said it was "a gift from the heavens in a way that the two things happened at once."

While Mildenberg and Bilal said they had been monitoring the 10-year-old Web site for years, the pool incident did seem to play into the timing of the lawsuit.

"When they said something about our pretty, brown, young, innocent children and called them monkeys because they wanted to go swimming, that was enough," Bilal said.

She may have been referring to this comment posted on Domelights: "Maybe the people who work for a living didn't want to swim with a bunch of ghetto monkey faces."

The lawsuit also highlights comments made on Domelights by the site's founder and administrator, a sergeant in the Philadelphia police force who goes by the online handle "McQ."

A statement from McQ that Mildenberg described as "racially abusive commentary" reads, "Blacks and other minorities frequently don't have the resources that white people have. Consequently, blacks may not be able to keep their vehicles inspected, registered, and roadworthy."

McQ is also listed as a defendant in the lawsuit. Asked why McQ bears responsibility for the racist remarks of his site's anonymous commenters, Mildenberg said it was because "he started it."

The person known as McQ did not respond to a request for comment, but posted a message on the site citing the lawsuit. McQ wrote that the suit may cause the Web site to be suspended, but added his statement was not an admission of wrongdoing.

"I categorically deny any wrongdoing on my part," the message reads. "I did not make racist posts. I did not maintain the Web site on city time."

Ideally, Mildenberg said, his clients would like to see the site shut down. Failing that, they want Philadelphia police officers to be prohibited from posting comments on the site, particularly during working hours.

The plaintiffs in the class-action suit also are seeking unspecified financial damages available under the Civil Rights Act for Philadelphia's 2,300 African-American police officers, according to Mildenberg.

Shelley Smith, Philadelphia's city solicitor, said. "The lawsuit is about a private Web site. It's not a police department Web site. It's not operated or overseen by the police department. The allegations against the city and police department are misplaced."
Those of us here who value our freedom of speech on message boards like B77 should have more than a passing interest in this.

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laureanna
Post subject: Re: Message Board lawsuit raises issues
Posted: Sat 18 Jul , 2009 3:03 pm
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I think there is a big, big difference between Domelight and Board77.

As a parallel, if a group of men in my workplace sat around a water cooler on break, and complained about women in general in very derogatory terms, to the point where it created or exacerbated a hostile work environment, I would call that harassment. There is no way people could be so compartmentalized as to make those kinds of statements around the cooler and then shut it off for the rest of the day, not letting themselves be influenced when dealing with the maligned co-workers.

So if these policemen are making such bald statements during work (which apparently they are) by verbal conversation, handwritten note, phone call, email, or message board, they are breaking the law, IMHO.

It would be a more difficult call if a select group of workers were meeting every night after work for pizza, beer, and disparagement. But the effect would be the same - creating or sustaining a hostile workplace, in which a person is treated differently for reasons of race, gender, or other class status.

I'm not a lawyer, but I have been on the raw end of this deal, back before there were laws in place, and human decency in place, to prevent this sort of work-related behavior. There were times when I had to decide if my integrity was worth being unemployed. So this sort of thing makes me :rage: .

It in no way compares to the "harassment old white people" that has been claimed on B77. If I don't like the drift of a thread here, I move on. I can state my assertions without fear of job loss or intolerable working conditions. If I read those kinds of things about me in a work-related message board, then had to work with the same jerks day in and day out, I would find it intolerable.

Last edited by laureanna on Sat 18 Jul , 2009 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Estel
Post subject: Re: Message Board lawsuit raises issues
Posted: Sat 18 Jul , 2009 3:03 pm
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People are saying shitty things, but we do have free speech in the U.S.

On the other hand, I don't think that the police officers who use that website should be able to access it at the police station. I can see that it would create a hostile work environment. Just as a woman would be able to complain about someone accessing say.... a sam kinison website, or sexist message board whilst at work, so too should minorities be able to complain about people accessing racist websites whilst at work.

Do what you want to do when not using a workplace computer, but when using one, you must be aware that your actions reflect upon the company you work for. Not to say that these police officers must never go on the website, only that they shouldn't go on whilst at work.

It's a matter of being polite. You can't access a 50 cent website and play the music at full blast whilst working in a library. Neither can you access a website used to harrass and insult a minority whilst in a workplace where you have sworn to protect people from the selfsame harrassment.



Basically, this isn't as clean cut of an issue as free speech.

You can't call a woman a whore in the workplace, nor can you, whilst at work, show her a website where women are called whores, especially when it's specifically for the purpose of saying, haha, look at what this website says. That's harrassment.

Nor can you call a black man the N-word in a workplace, or, whilst at work, show him a website where black men are called that, especially when it's specifically for the purpose of saying, haha, look at what this website says. That is also harrassment.


There's always been limits on what can be said to whom and when. This is exactly that.


All that said, the website should NOT be shut down, nor should the policemen who post on it be disallowed as members. They should simply be unable to use it during working hours whilst at work.


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Estel
Post subject: Re: Message Board lawsuit raises issues
Posted: Sat 18 Jul , 2009 3:05 pm
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What laureanna said in a much more concise manner than I ever could :P


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laureanna
Post subject: Re: Message Board lawsuit raises issues
Posted: Sat 18 Jul , 2009 3:20 pm
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Thanks. I cross posted with you and added a little more. There's still that gray area that would exist if a group of people continued to post, but only during off hours. Still an unpleasant atmosphere creator, in my eyes.

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Message Board lawsuit raises issues
Posted: Sat 18 Jul , 2009 5:14 pm
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from Laureanna
Quote:
I think there is a big, big difference between Domelight and Board77.
Absolutely - no doubt about it since the purpose and content is very different and the implications for the workplace versus what we do here are very different. But it does raise some issues about the ability to post ones opinion on message boards that I think might interest folks like us who post on them.

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Lidless
Post subject: Re: Message Board lawsuit raises issues
Posted: Sat 18 Jul , 2009 6:13 pm
Als u het leven te ernstig neemt, mist u de betekenis.
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sauronsfinger wrote:
But it does raise some issues about the ability to post ones opinion on message boards that I think might interest folks like us who post on them.
No it doesn't.

It's accessing the website and posting on it at work, and talking about it in front of black colleagues that's the issue.

Nothing wrong with reading Mein Kampf, but expect a harassment suit if you read it out loud in a synagogue.

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ToshoftheWuffingas
Post subject: Re: Message Board lawsuit raises issues
Posted: Tue 21 Jul , 2009 2:02 pm
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Dunno about US issues of freedom of speech. I know that is very valuable to you. I also know that the highlighted comments are repulsive and vile and I wonder what the bosses of these policemen think of the attitudes of the people they employ in public service; public as in everyone. Perhaps the police boss should be sacked for blithely ignoring it over the years. That might concentrate some minds.

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