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PostPosted: Fri 24 Jul , 2009 5:15 pm 
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ju ... -education

Quote:
The Christian right is making a fresh push to force religion onto the school curriculum in Texas with the state's education board about to consider recommendations that children be taught that there would be no United States if it had not been for God.
..
Members of a panel of experts appointed by the board to revise the state's history curriculum, who include a Christian fundamentalist preacher who says he is fighting a war for America's moral soul, want lessons to emphasise the part played by Christianity in the founding of the US and that religion is a civic virtue.


Here's the real gem:

Quote:
[Panelist David] Barton says children should be taught that Christianity is the key to "American exceptionalism"...and that religion is at the heart of being a virtuous citizen.


At least the guy's honest, I guess. In addition to advising Texas about history curricula, David Barton serves on the board of advisors for the Providence Foundation, a Christian Reconstructionist group.

Quote:
Quinn says that the issue is likely to lead to a heated political battle similar to the one in which the religious right tried to force creationism onto the curriculum. While it wasn't able to inject religious theories in to the classroom, the Texas school board did make changes to teaching designed to undermine lessons on evolution such as introducing views that the eye is so complex an organ it must have involved "intelligent design".


Keep up the good work, Texas.


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PostPosted: Fri 24 Jul , 2009 5:37 pm 
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....such as introducing views that the eye is so complex an organ it must have involved "intelligent design".


:LMAO:
I've seen this fact used for the opposite argument: That the eye is so poorly designed and prone to failure that it could not possibly have been designed by any intelligent being.

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PostPosted: Fri 24 Jul , 2009 6:47 pm 
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Quote:
David Barton serves on the board of advisors for the Providence Foundation, a Christian Reconstructionist group.



Will that name go down well in Texas?

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PostPosted: Fri 24 Jul , 2009 7:08 pm 
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So I guess the 1st Amendment only applies to Christians in Texas. If you happen to be any other religion your kids will be shamed at school. The founding fathers must be soooo proud, since in fact the pilgrims were escaping exactly this type of shit when they came here.

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PostPosted: Fri 24 Jul , 2009 8:03 pm 
Als u het leven te ernstig neemt, mist u de betekenis.
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So the attempted secession by Texas must be the work of the devil, right?

The Lone Star of Bethlehem state.

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PostPosted: Fri 24 Jul , 2009 9:25 pm 
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I have an idea: let Texas secede. We clearly don't need them in the rational part of the United States.

I wonder how the curriculum will address the long gap between christianity's appearance as a major religion, and the "discovery" of America. God must have been busy with Neptune then.

I dislike schools teaching kids that religion is at the heart of all virtuous citizens. My beef isn't because I am anti-religion, and an atheist, but that teaching ideas like that eventually get misused, or misled to presidents saying that atheists aren't citizens.

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PostPosted: Fri 24 Jul , 2009 10:00 pm 
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Or Jews aren't citizens, or Muslims aren't citizens, or (insert anything they don't like here). Thus beginning the dehumanization process of everyone who doesn't fit the 'Christian' virtures set up by men to govern others. Texas is big enough to house hundreds of relocation camps and all those who convert to their brand of Christianity will be released quickly and mainstreamed back into righteous society. And if someone actually has the balls to stand by their own convictions, perhaps they can brand them...maybe with a tatoo on the arm or something.

Screw it we don't need Freedom of Religion in the Constitution anyway, the Founding Fathers had no idea about other religions besides Christianity anyway. And they only meant Christianity when they penned the First Amendment, everyone knows that.

I just wish these freakin nut jobs would stop saying they are Patriots of the US, because clearly they have no frakin idea what the nation was actually founded on. Their proud to be American as long as it fits their cookie cutter brand of America.

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PostPosted: Fri 24 Jul , 2009 10:35 pm 
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TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
I have an idea: let Texas secede. We clearly don't need them in the rational part of the United States.


There are lots of smart, rational people in Texas. Just saying.

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PostPosted: Sat 25 Jul , 2009 11:59 am 
Als u het leven te ernstig neemt, mist u de betekenis.
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Looks like God is on holiday abroad. From today's news...

WAUSAU, Wis. – Opening statements were set to begin Saturday in the trial of a father charged with second-degree reckless homicide for praying instead of seeking medical help for his gravely ill 11-year-old daughter.

Dale Neumann's wife, Leilani, was convicted of the same charge this spring in the 2008 death of Madeline Neumann, called Kara by her parents.

The girl died from undiagnosed diabetes on March 23, 2008, surrounded by people praying at the family's rural home in Weston in central Wisconsin. Someone called 911 when she stopped breathing.

Leilani Neumann, 41, faces up to 25 years in prison when sentenced Oct. 6.
Prosecutors contend Dale Neumann, 47, recklessly killed the youngest of his four children by ignoring her deteriorating health. They claim the girl was too weak to speak, eat, drink or walk and that Neumann had a legal duty to take her to a doctor.

Dale Neumann's attorney said Friday, when an eight-man, six-woman jury was picked to hear the case, that he didn't know whether the father would testify in his own defense.

"It would be just a guess right now," attorney Jay Kronenwetter said. "It's the defendant's right. Who knows how the trial goes?"

An Oregon jury on Thursday convicted a father of misdemeanor criminal mistreatment for relying on prayer instead of seeking medical care for his 15-month-old daughter who died of pneumonia and a blood infection in March 2008. The father and mother were acquitted of a more serious manslaughter charge.
In the Wisconsin case, Assistant District Attorney LaMont Jacobson said Neumann's trial likely won't differ much from his wife's.

Doctors testified at the first trial that Madeline's gradually declining health would have gotten acute three or four days before she died as her body began shutting down. But despite being unresponsive and in a coma, the girl could have been saved very late into the day of her death with the proper treatment, the doctors said.

Leilani Neumann said during videotaped testimony that the family believes the Bible says healing comes from God and that she never expected her daughter to die. The Neumanns said the girl had not been to a doctor since she was 3.

A criminal complaint said Dale Neumann told police he believed God would heal his daughter right up until she stopped breathing. He also "professed to believe God was going to bring Madeline back to life."

The Neumanns have said the family does not belong to an organized religion.





Religious people who believe in an interactive God... :bang:

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PostPosted: Sat 25 Jul , 2009 12:31 pm 
I've cried a thousand oceans, and I would cry a thousand more if that's what it takes to sail you home.

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Erunáme wrote:
There are lots of smart, rational people in Texas. Just saying.


I forget who the Jericho fans were around here, if it was ever discussed, but by the end of that series, Texas was the big-ass hero! I loved it. I'm sure those moments would make you proud too. :D




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PostPosted: Sat 25 Jul , 2009 3:48 pm 
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I just get sick of being lumped into a group that is constantly having bad things said about it.

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PostPosted: Sat 25 Jul , 2009 4:44 pm 
Filthy darwinian hobbit
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There needs to be a roll call of honour of progressive Texans. That would help.

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PostPosted: Sat 25 Jul , 2009 5:33 pm 
Just keep singin'!
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Erunáme wrote:
There are lots of smart, rational people in Texas. Just saying.


That may be so, but the fact remains that texas, as a state, has a reputation of doing and saying some pretty damn asinine things. Sorry, Eru, but your home state tends to come up looking a couple of french fries short of a happy meal. If you know what I mean.

Texas is one of the two suppliers for textbooks in the public schools in the USA. There has been a noticeable decline in the interest level and quality of texts over the past 30+ years. Ever since the nut-job religious right started having this inexplicable influence.


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PostPosted: Sat 25 Jul , 2009 5:47 pm 
Als u het leven te ernstig neemt, mist u de betekenis.
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Erunáme wrote:
I just get sick of being lumped into a group that is constantly having bad things said about it.

No one lumps you into that group Eru. When the rest of the world points and laughs at Texas, it's laughing at the loud minority that spews forth crap such as Columbus was on a mission from God.

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PostPosted: Sat 25 Jul , 2009 6:08 pm 
I've cried a thousand oceans, and I would cry a thousand more if that's what it takes to sail you home.

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Oh, I know Eru. Posting with you through the years helped me think of Texas as a bit less silly than I may have if it were only a concept to me. But yeah, what Lidless said. No lumping! Just finger-pointing at those it does refer to. Like that thread about hypocritical mormons and other religious people a while back? It sounds like we get trashed a lot, but not being one of the ~crazy mofos~ referred to, I'll just let the insults float to those who are being pointed out. :P




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PostPosted: Sat 25 Jul , 2009 7:17 pm 
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To be honest, what I get annoyed with is the tendency of schools/textbooks to try to be so inoffensive that they do ignore the role Christianity played in the founding of this nation. Or they villanize Christians. Why can't the facts be presented without any spin in any direction? And when the facts are unclear, just state that. I'm not asking for kids to be taught from a Christian worldview; I'd just like them to be taught with any propaganda or political/religious agenda steering everything.

And, for the record, I believe in an interactive God, Liddy. It doesn't mean I'd do something so ignorant as what that family did, because I believe God gives us common sense and knowledge for a reason. There's no reason not to seek medical help.

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PostPosted: Sat 25 Jul , 2009 8:17 pm 
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I think the proper basis for any prayer to any concept of Deity is, 'Please give me strength/wisdom/hope for my circumstance.'

NOT 'Please perform a magic trick for me.'

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PostPosted: Sat 25 Jul , 2009 8:23 pm 
Just keep singin'!
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ToshoftheWuffingas wrote:
I think the proper basis for any prayer to any concept of Deity is, 'Please give me strength/wisdom/hope for my circumstance.'.'


That is my daily prayer, Tosh. ;) And then I add: "And please keep everyone I love happy and safe."

And then I add: " And please help me NOT to be an asshole. Today."

I kid you not. That is my daily prayer. :D


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PostPosted: Sat 25 Jul , 2009 8:27 pm 
Filthy darwinian hobbit
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That last bit is only ever going to be 99% successful. :D

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PostPosted: Sun 26 Jul , 2009 12:05 am 
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What I don't understand is why the parents couldn't reach the thought that the intervetion by God is the medical help.

Reminds me of the story about the guy who prayed God would save him and when he died he asked God why he didn't save him. God replied he sent three people to save him, yet he was too blind to acknowledge that God may answer prayers logicaly and with human help.

As for those people in Texas who push this agenda, these are the people who believe God Bless America is an entitlment, not a plea to God.

As for the Founding Fathers, there were a few of them that weren't Christian. And all of them believed that everyone should have freedom of religion and they knew it wasn't just Christianity that they were fighting for. Freedom of Religion has to be honored for every religion, not just Christianity, or every religion, including Christianity will lose. The thing that irks me the most is Christ said to teach his word with love and tolerance, not war and hatred.

Christianity, like Democracy can not be forced upon people at the end of the sword. Both Christianity and Democracy's values dictate otherwise.

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