board77

The Last Homely Site on the Web

Paying for Health Care

Post Reply   Page 1 of 16  [ 301 posts ]
Jump to page 1 2 3 4 516 »
Author Message
sauronsfinger
Post subject: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Sat 11 Jul , 2009 12:51 pm
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 4336
Joined: Mon 28 Feb , 2005 9:28 pm
Location: The real world
 
It looks like there is a serious proposal in the Congress which would set up a way to pay for at least half of the cost of the national health care program now being debated and formulated.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/11/healt ... ml?_r=2&hp

_________________

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


Top
Profile Quote
laureanna
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Sat 11 Jul , 2009 6:35 pm
Triathlete
Offline
 
Posts: 2711
Joined: Wed 26 Jan , 2005 2:08 am
Location: beachcombing
 
Interesting how a tax on people who make 100s of thousands of dollars can be reframed as "an attack on small businesses".

As the parent of a soon to be uninsured daughter who is currently racking up $2,000 a month in medical bills, I am very interested in seeing universal health care. :help:

_________________

Well, I'm back.


Top
Profile Quote
The Nameless Thing
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Sat 11 Jul , 2009 8:24 pm
Offline
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu 05 Jun , 2008 9:04 pm
Location: The Nameless Inn, Mordor
 
-I am very sure the waste generated by the feds will cause a decline in EVERY aspect of, what I would characterize as efficiency per $$ spent.
-People who have health care now, pay for it. Therefore all I have to look forward to is more out of pocket to pay for those who won’t pay for their own.
-No one goes without healthcare in this country. Go to any emergency room and you will sit there with dope fiends, gang bangers, drunks. All will get treated on the taxpayers dime eventually.
-I am very uninterested in paying for anyone’s ‘expedited’ health care except for me and my own.

Call it tough love. Get a job, get an education. Take responsibility for yourself.

:rant:

_________________

I Lurk, therefore I am!


Top
Profile Quote
sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Sat 11 Jul , 2009 9:46 pm
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 4336
Joined: Mon 28 Feb , 2005 9:28 pm
Location: The real world
 
We had an election last November. The side with that sort of thinking lost. Now its time for the consequences of the election.

_________________

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


Top
Profile Quote
Eruname
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Sat 11 Jul , 2009 10:17 pm
Islanded in a Stream of Stars
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 8748
Joined: Wed 27 Oct , 2004 6:24 pm
Location: UK
Contact: Website
 
The Nameless Thing wrote:
Call it tough love. Get a job, get an education. Take responsibility for yourself.

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

It's hard not to let a slew of profanities come out of my mouth when confronted with an attitude such as this. It makes me want to scream.

Not having healthcare DOES NOT = not being educated or not taking responsibility for oneself.

I graduated college. I graduated magna cum laude and was on the Dean's List multiple times. I was working full time when I was out of college. BUT, I was self employed so I did not have ANY means to get healthcare through an employer and trying to find some on my own was a nightmare and FAR too expensive. So there were a few scary years where I didn't have coverage, as well as another half a year where my husband (who has a masters degree in astrophysics) and I didn't have it.

Yet you're going to tell me that I should have gotten more of an education and taken responsiblity for myself????

!(%"£(%*"£&%("£*%&!!!! :rage: :rage: :rage:

What about people who get laid off from a job? They aren't worthy of healthcare? How about people who fought and won a battle against cancer, but who if they lost their job wouldn't have a prayer of getting healthcare with a new employer?

Having healthcare tied to employment is the STUPIDEST idea. So is the pre-existing condition crap.

I'm damned glad I now live in a country where ALL people are worthy of medical care, no matter what their class, education level, race, or medical history is. It may not be the fanciest or fastest, but it's far better than millions going without care.

_________________

Abandon this fleeting world
abandon yourself.
Then the moon and flowers
will guide you along the way.

-Ryokan

http://wanderingthroughmiddleearth.blogspot.com/


Top
Profile Quote
TheEllipticalDisillusion
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Sat 11 Jul , 2009 11:27 pm
Insolent Pup
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 5381
Joined: Wed 09 Mar , 2005 8:31 pm
Location: Many Places
 
Quote:
Call it tough love. Get a job, get an education. Take responsibility for yourself.
The two are not mutually exclusive, though. I'm educated (BA in English), and I have a job, and I'm furthering my education (grad school to become a high school English teacher, but I don't make enough to afford health care plus rent, plus bill money, plus food money, plus car insurance, plus incidentals.

It is interesting to see the kind of waste that the side who lost is willing to tolerate vs the kind that they aren't. How many billions were wasted in Iraq vs how many billions to spend on Americans?

_________________

The 11/3 Project


Top
Profile Quote
Jude
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Sat 11 Jul , 2009 11:35 pm
Aspiring to heresy
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 19651
Joined: Wed 23 Feb , 2005 6:54 pm
Location: Canada
 
Well said, Eru.

_________________

[ img ]

Melkor and Ungoliant in need of some relationship counselling.


Top
Profile Quote
Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Sun 12 Jul , 2009 3:20 am
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 3348
Joined: Mon 15 Aug , 2005 3:48 am
Location: Planet Earth
 
Given that the budget is already severely in the red, this proposed tax increase will not balance the budget while also providing health care. The money would go into the general fund with all other tax monies, become completely fungible, lost in the sea of red ink that is the federal budget, and will in the end have no correlation to the increased outpouring of money into this new program which will beyond any shadow of a doubt cost much more than anticipated.

And given that the country is in a depression a tax increase is even more inadvisible than usual, even if it could be guaranteed that the new tax would only go for the new program which won't cost more than estimated.

The sad thing is that they're calling it a surcharge. Be honest and call it a tax hike. Be honest and call it new tax brackets.

_________________

It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


Top
Profile Quote
Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Sun 12 Jul , 2009 3:53 am
Daydream Believer
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 5780
Joined: Mon 28 Feb , 2005 11:15 pm
Location: Pac Northwest
 
I would suggest stop building the Empire and start building the Nation. We wouldn't have to raise any taxe if we did that.

_________________

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in

Five seconds away from the Tetons and Yellowstone


Top
Profile Quote
yovargas
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Sun 12 Jul , 2009 5:48 am
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 14774
Joined: Thu 24 Feb , 2005 12:11 pm
 
Jebus. Hell, I'm mostly libertarian and I gotta second what Eru said. Sheesh.


Top
Profile Quote
sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Sun 12 Jul , 2009 11:13 am
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 4336
Joined: Mon 28 Feb , 2005 9:28 pm
Location: The real world
 
Taxes are the price we pay for being a civilized society. If the tax increases are targeted for high earners - the group which has gotten things their way for the past decade due to the Bush tax cuts - they would have wide support among the Among people. A financial transactions tax like many European nations have but we do not have would go along way to make up any difference in funding. A very low and simple 1% transactions tax on different types of Wall Street activity could bring in $400 billion dollar each year. Combine that with repeal of the Bush tax cuts on the rich plus several announced health industry savings efforts and the goal is achieved. Medical care for all citizens has current wide support among the American people. Its a win win situation for the nation and its people.

_________________

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


Top
Profile Quote
jewelsong
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Sun 12 Jul , 2009 12:52 pm
Just keep singin'!
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 1729
Joined: Sun 20 Feb , 2005 9:26 pm
Location: UK
 
Having your health insurance tied into your job is a hold over from when people goot ajob right out of college or high school and stuck with that same job until retirement.

Times and the workplace have changed. Not only that, there are consulting jobs and at-home jobs and part-time jobs and having insurance tied into where you work is just not working anymore.

In the three years before I left to work in the UK, I had three different jobs in three different school systems. Each time, I had to change health insurance providers, fill out a mountain of paperwork, go for an initial exam and endure a waiting period. It was ridiculous and time-wasting.

When I come back from the UK, I will have NO health insurance until I find another job. This is a very scary prospect at my age.

In addition, many jobs do not pay health insurance unless you work full time. So my son, who works per diem, is uninsured...even though he often works more than 40 hours a week and goes to school full time.

In the long run, it would be cheaper to have everyone insured, period. Eru is dead right - having your insurance tied into your job is just plain stupid.


Top
Profile Quote
Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Sun 12 Jul , 2009 3:15 pm
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 3348
Joined: Mon 15 Aug , 2005 3:48 am
Location: Planet Earth
 
Quote:
Taxes are the price we pay for being a civilized society.
That statement is missing it's middle term. Taxes are the price we pay for government, and government is the price we pay for civilized society. But when you include the middle term it becomes apparent that sometimes the government acts in an uncivilized manner and therefore taxes become the price we pay for uncivilized society. By excluding the middle term taxes that pay for uncivilized acts are disguised as the price we pay for civilized society.

That may suit those who always approve of more government, but even those who generally disagree with me but want government to act civilzed would agree that the middle term should be included so that we don't automatically have to approve of uncivilized acts of government as the price we pay for a civilized society. Civilized people have limits beyond which they don't want the government to cross into uncivilized acts.

_________________

It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


Top
Profile Quote
sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Sun 12 Jul , 2009 5:18 pm
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 4336
Joined: Mon 28 Feb , 2005 9:28 pm
Location: The real world
 
CG
Justice of the Supreme Court Oliver Wendell Holmes would disagree with you. My statement is from a quote by Justice Holmes. So lets see here... I can go with The Great Dissenter, one of the greatest Supreme Justices of all time or I can go with your deliberate misrepresentation of the statement. Easy choice. Here is a link to inform you about Holmes and his career in law and government:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Wendell_Holmes,_Jr.

The rest of your statement CG makes no sense. It looks like more your extremist anti-government philosophy that runs through many of your posts on governmental issues. Just look at the opening of your second paragraph
Quote:
That may suit those who always approve of more government,
I know of nobody who ALWAYS approves of more government. To preface your statement with such an obviously false qualifying statement is to render all that comes after it impotent. Many on the far right use the never ending mantra of "I believe in limited government" like its something special or unique. The wave it as a flag which is suppose to distinguish themselves from liberals. As far as I can see, everybody outside of totalitarians believe in limited government. The debate is only about the margins. There is nothing special, unique, different or distinguishing about anyone including you or I believing in limited government.

_________________

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


Top
Profile Quote
Riverthalos
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Mon 13 Jul , 2009 12:34 am
bioalchemist
Offline
 
Posts: 5205
Joined: Wed 16 Mar , 2005 2:10 am
Location: at a safe distance
 
I have a fucking PhD. They call that a "terminal degree" because there's nowhere else to go and you feeel like you're dead by the time you get there. :P I went three months without insurance, in the time when I wasn't enrolled as a student but hadn't started my new job yet. I was employed in those three months, but for various reasons too tedious to get into, I couldn't get health coverage through my employer and health coverage for myself was too expensive. The shitty part was I'd actually paid for a full academic year's worth of insurance in the fall - they just wouldn't let me keep it after I handed in my thesis and got the "You're done!" paper. Getting health coverage isn't just a question of getting educated and working hard. :roll:

_________________

"He attacks. And here I can kill him. But I don't. That's the answer to world peace, people."
-Stickles Shihan


Top
Profile Quote
elfshadow
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Mon 13 Jul , 2009 2:33 pm
Kill the headlights and put it in neutral
Offline
 
Posts: 5407
Joined: Tue 09 Aug , 2005 2:27 am
 
The Nameless Thing wrote:
Call it tough love. Get a job, get an education. Take responsibility for yourself.
This is BULLSHIT. Complete and utter bullshit. Read what Eru has to say, and take it to heart. My mother is a self-employed piano teacher, with several Master's degrees. She also has multiple sclerosis. It was a huge hassle for her to be able to get insurance in the first place because she is self-employed, and that was before she was diagnosed with MS. Now, she can never change insurance providers, because her MS would become a pre-existing condition and she wouldn't be covered for ANY care in regards to her illness. Her insurance company can hike her rates sky-high, and there's nothing she can do about it, because she can't change providers or she'd be in an even worse situation.

And you think people who complain about the huge problems with the insurance industry are lazy and ignorant??? You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. You think that insurance is available to anyone who works hard? Take a look at the people in this country who are uninsured or underinsured. Many of them are self-employed small business owners, like my mother. Many are students, working towards a PhD, as River discussed. Many are highly skilled workers who got laid off and were left without benefits. Many are young people who just graduated from college and can't find a job in this economy. It's almost sickening that there are people who honestly believe that if you don't have health insurance, you aren't working hard enough.


Top
Profile Quote
Cenedril_Gildinaur
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Mon 13 Jul , 2009 6:42 pm
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 3348
Joined: Mon 15 Aug , 2005 3:48 am
Location: Planet Earth
 
sauronsfinger wrote:
Justice of the Supreme Court Oliver Wendell Holmes would disagree with you. My statement is from a quote by Justice Holmes.
Did I say the statement was wrong or that it was missing its middle term?

The rest of your babbling snipped.

_________________

It is a myth that coercion is necessary in order to force people to get along together, but it is a persistent myth because it feeds a desire many people have. That desire is to be able to justify hurting people who have done nothing other than offend them in some way.

Last edited by Cenedril_Gildinaur on Tue Feb 30, 2026 13:61 am; edited 426 times in total


Top
Profile Quote
The Nameless Thing
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Mon 13 Jul , 2009 7:12 pm
Offline
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu 05 Jun , 2008 9:04 pm
Location: The Nameless Inn, Mordor
 
No one who is laid off goes without benefits (COBRA is a Federal Law). Yes, you may pay more, but you would be able to continue coverage.

You can get Kaiser insurance for about $300/month (here in the very expensive state of California).

One of my sons just got a new job, he is 31 and was out of work for 4 months. He chose not to get COBRA and was un-covered for that time. He has no ‘hard’ assets so he took the chance. If something had happened he would have been taken to Riverside Community Hospital, who would have treated him, and then tried to collect later.

I don’t think you are lazy or stupid, but it’s a choice; it’s always a choice. If people decide to peruse a career that does not generate enough income because of altruistic reasons they have chosen a path that limits those choices. But if you bought a car, or a TV, DVD player, or anything before you got insurance, why is that my problem?

Don’t get me wrong, I feel empathy, but where does it stop? I feel bad for kids in Somalia too, but you can’t fix everything without giving up so much you collapse under the burden.

_________________

I Lurk, therefore I am!


Top
Profile Quote
Dave_LF
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Mon 13 Jul , 2009 7:23 pm
You are hearing me talk
Offline
 
Posts: 2950
Joined: Mon 28 Feb , 2005 8:14 am
Location: Great Lakes
 
Are you seriously comparing the smallish one-time cost of a TV or DVD player to the recurring cost of health insurance? (a car I can see, if you bought it new and took out a loan to do so)


Top
Profile Quote
Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: Paying for Health Care
Posted: Mon 13 Jul , 2009 7:29 pm
Daydream Believer
User avatar
Offline
 
Posts: 5780
Joined: Mon 28 Feb , 2005 11:15 pm
Location: Pac Northwest
 
TNT

You do know that unpaid medical bills are turned into the credit agencies for collection and go on credit ratings right? Just not paying a bill won't actually cut it anymore, you get taken to court and your credit is ruined. Why do you think so many people with insurance actually end up filing bankrupt after a health incident that is more than a broken arm. Yes, with insurance, not without. With. These are people who have full time jobs, work and are productive members of society who do pay for insurance.

_________________

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in

Five seconds away from the Tetons and Yellowstone


Top
Profile Quote
Display: Sort by: Direction:
Post Reply   Page 1 of 16  [ 301 posts ]
Return to “The Symposium” | Jump to page 1 2 3 4 516 »
Jump to: