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Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"

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nienna
Post subject: Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
Posted: Thu 24 Sep , 2009 8:04 am
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... w-low.html
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Barack Obama rebuffs Gordon Brown as 'special relationship' sinks to new low
Gordon Brown has been snubbed repeatedly by Barack Obama during his trip to the United States, as the fall-out from the release of the Lockerbie bomber appeared to have left "the special relationship" at its lowest ebb for nearly 20 years.
Just interested to know how the US is reporting this story....does anyone even realize or care whether Obama snubbed Brown? :P

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Jude
Post subject: Re: Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
Posted: Thu 24 Sep , 2009 12:25 pm
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Well, when one partner of a relationship does a really, really stupid thing, there's bound to be a chill in the relationship. :P

I have a question: I don't understand the extent of the powers of the Scottish parliament. Was the release of the accused Lockerbie bomber completely the decision of the Scottish parliament, with England not being involved at all? Could Brown have vetoed it if he had so chosen?

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Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
Posted: Thu 24 Sep , 2009 1:01 pm
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Maybe the French will start liking us again. ;)


I'm pretty sure at some point the US will get over this, it's just right now it's still stinging a bit. I would compare this to if the US released a member of the IRA who was almost dead from cancer. I am sure the English would be hey thanks tons poopheads.

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Di of Long Cleeve
Post subject: Re: Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
Posted: Thu 24 Sep , 2009 1:28 pm
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Ara-anna wrote:
I'm pretty sure at some point the US will get over this, it's just right now it's still stinging a bit. I would compare this to if the US released a member of the IRA who was almost dead from cancer. I am sure the English would be hey thanks tons poopheads.
Well, under the Good Friday agreement of 1998, many convicted IRA and Loyalist terrorists were released before serving their time, actually. ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast_Agreement

Not a comfortable thing to negotiate but, you know, eleven years on and the likes of the Real IRA are dinosaurs (although still malevolent enough to cause us all a bit of worry now and then. There's no point in being complacent.)

My brother, who is from Northern Ireland, once scoffed: "Don't tell me that Tony Blair doesn't talk to terrorists. Of course he talks to terrorists!"

As for the special relationship, I can only imagine most Americans are saying, 'Gordon who?'

;)

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nienna
Post subject: Re: Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
Posted: Thu 24 Sep , 2009 2:04 pm
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Jude, Scotland has wide autonomy over internal affairs, although London is still responsible for foreign affairs and defense.
Quote:
Earlier this week, British Prime Minister Gordon Brown said he told Libyan leader Moammar Gaddafi "that we had no role in making the decision about (al-Megrahi's) future. Because it was a quasi-judicial matter, because it was a matter legislated for by the Scottish Parliament and not by us, it was a matter over which we could not interfere and had no control over the final outcome."
Guardian


However, the fact that there was no intervention exposes problems for the UK's devolution settlement. And, as the international reaction shows, it also matters for the UK's diplomatic relations.
Quote:
...surely the mark of an adequate devolution settlement is that each layer of government has clearly defined powers, and that everyone is satisfied that they have full discretion to use their powers as needed, in fulfilling their responsibilities to the people they serve. Even if the British government did have the power to intervene with this bad decision, then, if it was decided that it would have been politically unviable to exercise that power, British devolution is in serious trouble. In a working federal system, the central government would not have felt any compunction about stepping in in this case, and the regional government would have accepted that it had the authority to do so.


http://www.sohopolitico.com/2009/08/loc ... holes.html

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Lord_Morningstar
Post subject: Re: Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
Posted: Thu 24 Sep , 2009 2:27 pm
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Quote:
Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
No. There have been much bigger strains than this.

Oddly enough the relationship may improve if a Conseervative Government is elected in the U.K. next year (which seems very likely). These long-standing international relationships can sometimes work even better when governments from opposite sides of the political spectrum hold office in the two countries. The Australia-New Zealand relationship has sort of worked like that.

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Dave_LF
Post subject: Re: Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
Posted: Thu 24 Sep , 2009 3:11 pm
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Bad as the decision may or may not have been, it seems like an odd thing to make into an international incident.


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TheEllipticalDisillusion
Post subject: Re: Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
Posted: Thu 24 Sep , 2009 5:40 pm
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So, Obama doesn't want a lap dog, not the end of the world.

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
Posted: Thu 24 Sep , 2009 6:02 pm
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from DI
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As for the special relationship, I can only imagine most Americans are saying, 'Gordon who?'

Is Gordon Brown the foul mouthed English TV chef who redesigns failing restaurants?

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nienna
Post subject: Re: Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
Posted: Thu 24 Sep , 2009 6:19 pm
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the foul-mouthed Scottish TV chef, even...

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Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
Posted: Thu 24 Sep , 2009 6:26 pm
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Lord_Morningstar wrote:
Quote:
Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
No. There have been much bigger strains than this.
True, I mean what with all the George III stuff and all. ;)




speaking of chefs....I'd pay to watch Gordon and Anthony go head to head in iron chef.

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ToshoftheWuffingas
Post subject: Re: Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
Posted: Thu 24 Sep , 2009 10:18 pm
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8215260.stm

Hmm, After a comfortable few years in the US he is released not to the country where he was imprisoned for terrorism but to a country where he will be free to put his feet up while he considers whether he wants to return to prison. The war on terrorism has its limits obviously.

ETA As to the 'snub' I have a few thoughts.
1 *yawn*
2 The media most het up about this is our conservative press who look for any chance to portray Brown badly.
3 Everyone wants a piece of Obama. I doubt he'd want to spend his limited time with a dependable ally when he wants to talk with the major players in the hot spots.
4 What on earth was our Foreign Office doing? It's their job to arrange stuff like this in advance. It's what we pay them to do. If you go to an event like this hoping for a snatched quiet word and I suppose such opportunities do exist you don't signal them in advance or look discomfited when they don't crop up. It's unprofessional.
and 5 *yawn again*

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vison
Post subject: Re: Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
Posted: Thu 24 Sep , 2009 11:17 pm
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Quite a bit of doubt about the man's actual guilt, is there not?

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Jude
Post subject: Re: Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
Posted: Thu 24 Sep , 2009 11:25 pm
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That's what I've heard, too. In that case, a retrial would have been more appropriate than an unconditional release.

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nienna
Post subject: Re: Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
Posted: Fri 25 Sep , 2009 5:59 am
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A judicial review of al-Megrahi's case two years ago raised serious questions about the evidence used to convict him, spurring his appeal. But people with pending appeals cannot be transferred to another country — a fact that prompted al-Megrahi's request for permission to abandon his appeal to facilitate his release.

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ToshoftheWuffingas
Post subject: Re: Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
Posted: Fri 25 Sep , 2009 11:55 am
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Back to the special relationship. It was so much stronger of course back in Margaret Thatcher's day. Here is one of her top politicians describing how it was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6drjMIu ... r_embedded

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nienna
Post subject: Re: Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
Posted: Fri 25 Sep , 2009 1:44 pm
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Tosh - there seems to be a problem with that video...

How about this one instead from the British satirical current affairs show Have I Got News For You?...(apologies if it's been posted before!)

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Lidless
Post subject: Re: Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
Posted: Fri 25 Sep , 2009 3:33 pm
Als u het leven te ernstig neemt, mist u de betekenis.
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Aah...back in Thatcher's day - when the US invaded Grenada (a Commonwealth country) in '83 without telling the UK first.

Queen Liz also condemned the attack, claiming it to be an attack on her commonwealth realms. The United Nations General Assembly condemned it as "a flagrant violation of international law" by a vote of 108 in favor to 9, with 27 abstentions. The United Nations Security Council considered a similar resolution, which failed to pass when vetoed by...the United States.

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Estel
Post subject: Re: Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
Posted: Fri 25 Sep , 2009 6:07 pm
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I think it's all getting blown out of proportion.

Think of it this way....

Would you spend any more time with Gordon Brown than you had to?


;)


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nienna
Post subject: Re: Is this the end for the UK/US "Special Relationship?"
Posted: Fri 25 Sep , 2009 9:51 pm
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