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Finding middle ground on guns

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Finding middle ground on guns
Posted: Sun 08 Nov , 2009 12:39 pm
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A few days ago we had another in a long and seemingly endless series of massacres carried out with a gun. Thirteen people died at Fr. Hood in Texas and another 30 suffered gunshot wounds. I could list all the previous such incidents, but we all are at least aware of them.

Right up front, let me say that I do not think trying to take away anyones guns is the answer to this. Let me also say that I do not think that there is any political desire from politicians and lawmakers to tackle this issue. The gun lobby, the NRA and its supporters, have effectively won the public debate regarding governmental action on guns. I do not expect government to do anything about this now or in the near future.

I would very much like to see an attitudinal step taken on this entire issue. Everything in our society has its price and there is a price to be paid for everything. We live in a society with over 100 million guns and in some states the number of guns outnumbers the number of adults in that state.

The laws in Texas made it possible for a man to purchase a handgun designed to hold 20 bullets at one time and was partially designed to be powerful enough to pierce body armor. This is legal under the law of that state.

All I want is a simple acknowledgement that in a nation with a strong Second Amendment, there is a price to be paid for that right to bear arms. And some of the people who pay that price are the innocent dead in these reoccurring incidents of gun slaughter. Lets all please simply acknowledge that there is a price to be paid and innocent people are paying it.

I do not want this to be seen as an attack on gun owners because it is not. No more than criticism of a drunk driver who kills a family of four on the highway should be seen as an attack on the bar industry or liquor industry. Sadly, when tens of millions of people drink, some to excess, there is going to be some damage associated with that activity. We have tried mightilly to change the public attitude about drinking and driving because we came to the societal conclusion that thousands of dead people from the deeds of drunk drivers was too high of a price to pay for alcohol.

Why can’t we do much the same thing regarding guns? I have no problem acknowledging that guns help protect people from crime. There are plenty of examples of this happening and one would be foolish not to admit that there are benefits to gun ownership. All I want is acknowledgement that while there is an upside, there also is a downside.

And perhaps once that is acknowledged, we can then have the discussion that government and society do not want to have now about such things like selling people handguns that can shoot twenty armor piercing bullets in under a minute.

Is that too much to ask when innocent people are paying with their very lives so that we have weapons like this? There needs to be a middle ground where rational and reasonable people can meet and discuss this issue. There has to be a middle ground somewhere in between the NRA and gun banning. I think we need to find that.

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Pippin4242
Post subject: Re: Finding middle ground on guns
Posted: Sun 08 Nov , 2009 1:28 pm
Hasta la victoria, siempre
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Good thread. :)
Of course, I can't really say I agree, being UK born and bred... but if guns are really so important to people in the USA then yes, they should try and always acknowledge the bad with the good.

*-Pips-*

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ToshoftheWuffingas
Post subject: Re: Finding middle ground on guns
Posted: Mon 09 Nov , 2009 12:21 pm
Filthy darwinian hobbit
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I truly think the gun in America and elsewhere has moved on from a useful farm tool and a harmless target shooting hobby into the near exact non magical equivalent of Tolkien's Ring. It gives delusions of power, fantasies of combat and control of what is 'bad' in the eye of the beholder and corrupts the mind.
The hysterical reaction to the notion of 'taking my gun away' looks just like Frodo in the tower of Cirith Ungol.
That's what it looks like from outside.
Yes, and the victims too. :(

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Dave_LF
Post subject: Re: Finding middle ground on guns
Posted: Tue 10 Nov , 2009 3:51 pm
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There is certainly a price to pay for gun ownership. There is also a price for outlawing it. One is greater than the other, and therein lies the rub.


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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Finding middle ground on guns
Posted: Tue 10 Nov , 2009 4:37 pm
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I am not denying that there are benefits to gun ownership Dave. Not at all. All I am saying is that lets also acknowledge that these massacres occur more in the USA than any other single nation for a reason and lets accept and publicly acknowledge that lots of innocent people are paying the highest possible price so others can enjoy those rights while they pay nothing.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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Dave_LF
Post subject: Re: Finding middle ground on guns
Posted: Tue 10 Nov , 2009 5:01 pm
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I understand; just trying to frame things clearly. I don't know which price is higher. Even if it were certain that tougher gun laws would reduce the frequency of these shooting sprees I wouldn't be sure. Innocent people die all the time as a result of other people misusing their various freedoms, but making responsible people pay for the actions of irresponsible ones is problematic even if it's the only option.


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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Finding middle ground on guns
Posted: Tue 10 Nov , 2009 5:22 pm
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Good point Dave. So how do we both insure that responsible people can enjoy gun ownership while trying to minimize these sort of senseless massacres that seem to only proliferate here in the USA?

On a different (non JRRT related) site, I often get into these type of discussions and have discovered that the pro-gun people have a radically different idea of what they need a gun for and how much gun they need. I think that a whole bunch of average folks find nothing wrong, and even beneficial, for somebody to have a regular old fashioned six shot pistol around the house or workplace for possible self defense use. They find nothing wrong with somebody owning a regular rifle or a shotgun for defense or hunting or sport target shooting. What people are turned off by is reading about weapons like the one used at Ft. Hood where it could fire 20 or even 30 shots in seconds and can have the power to even penetrate body armor.

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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers


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