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Jesus kills Santa with gun?!?!?!?!?!?

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Rodia
Post subject: Re: Jesus kills Santa with gun?!?!?!?!?!?
Posted: Fri 25 Dec , 2009 6:49 pm
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A pinch of sulphur might work better. :devil:

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Alatar
Post subject: Re: Jesus kills Santa with gun?!?!?!?!?!?
Posted: Sat 26 Dec , 2009 11:44 am
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To Vison,

I know where you're coming from, but there is a phase just before that, where the kid really wants to believe, and wants you to confirm it for them. Thats the tricky one, and we had it with our eldest this year. I know her, and she still wants there to be a Santa, so with only 2 weeks before Christmas and the possibility of a ruined holiday we trotted out some of the place holder answers:

My friend Alice doesn't believe in Santa.
Doesn't she? (This is just the typical probe)

No, but Alice always thinks she knows everything.
Well what do you think? (Find out what her angle is)

Oh I think he's real.
Well, Santa comes to people who believe in him. (This is a dodgy one cause it could be read as "Believe or you get no presents", but its still right)

Do you believe in Santa? ...
Ok, here's the downright lie.... Yes of course I do.

But then, I think anyone who knows my opinion on all this could argue that wasn't really a lie either. I do believe in Santa. I believe fiercely in the need for Santa, the need for fantasy, the need for magic.

But I know this will be her last Christmas believing, and as much as I want her to enjoy growing up, I'll feel the loss of that next year.

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LalaithUrwen
Post subject: Re: Jesus kills Santa with gun?!?!?!?!?!?
Posted: Sat 26 Dec , 2009 3:28 pm
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
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We are basically on the same page, Alatar. I would never directly lie when they got old enough to ask me point-blank, "Is he real?" When they pressed me to that point, I would remind them again about there being a real man named St. Nicholas who loved God and gave gifts to children out of that love and how that spirit carries on.

I'm the same about faeries, honestly. :oops: I wanted the girls to believe in them for as long as possible, so I encouraged them in their imagination but I've avoided lying.

I've always embraced the magical and mystical side of life. I would wholeheartedly agree with this:
Quote:
I do believe in Santa. I believe fiercely in the need for Santa, the need for fantasy, the need for magic.
Yes.

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sauronsfinger
Post subject: Re: Jesus kills Santa with gun?!?!?!?!?!?
Posted: Sat 26 Dec , 2009 3:52 pm
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Reality is only for people who cannot cope with fantasy.

There is lots of disappointing stuff for all of us to discover in life as we journey through it. If a young child can find some hope... some comfort ... some joy ... in something that is not completely scientifically proven, what is the harm?

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Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: Jesus kills Santa with gun?!?!?!?!?!?
Posted: Sat 26 Dec , 2009 4:39 pm
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LalaithUrwen wrote:
I've always embraced the magical and mystical side of life. I would wholeheartedly agree with this:
Quote:
I do believe in Santa. I believe fiercely in the need for Santa, the need for fantasy, the need for magic.
Yes.

I would put faries, elves, and dragons in there with that too.

I think it is because of the human need to believe in our better selves, our higher selves as a whole. We want to believe we can be better as a whole, but the day to day keeps us earth bound.

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Nin
Post subject: Re: Jesus kills Santa with gun?!?!?!?!?!?
Posted: Sat 26 Dec , 2009 5:38 pm
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As I said, believing in Santa is no guarantee that you will believe in fantasy or miracles later as well as not believing will not make you a rational mind forever.

My parents never told me about Santa. Even under the common German name "Weihnachtsmann", never. And the "christ child" was not there to bring presents, but rather to remind the mood of christmas. And the songs. Fairies were of uttermost unimportance, as elves as dragons. They are very anglo-saxon and I find it a bit presumptious to think that especially those are signs of fantasy or necessary to become someone who believes in the power of imagination and the value of fantasy.

You can also be opened to miracles by thinking of the beauty of a drop of water, a spider-web or a sunrise and you can become oblivious to the miracles which surround you if you expect fairies and dragons. In the French speaking part of the world, Santa (under the name of Père Noël) is already more important than in my German childhood and the imaginary world has become more influenced by international iconography like the Coca-Cola Santa. Now, my children really don't believe in Santa any more and I'm rather relieved about it, as I was not comfortable with the idea (although I played the game), as I did not judge it as an addition or sing of the "spirit of christmas" or an introduction to the value of magic.

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LalaithUrwen
Post subject: Re: Jesus kills Santa with gun?!?!?!?!?!?
Posted: Sat 26 Dec , 2009 10:00 pm
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
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We emphasized from the beginning that Christmas was about celebrating the birth of Christ. (That is the meaning for us.) We've even had birthday cakes for Jesus and things like that. When we light the Christ candle on Christmas morning we sing "Happy Birthday" to Jesus, among other things.

We've always placed a heavier emphasis on the religious aspects of Christmas. But when the girls were little, Santa visited and left a present or two, plus stuff for the stockings. The rest of the presents were from us.

We enjoyed the story of Santa Claus and his origins in St. Nicholas. Like I said, though, I wouldn't lie when asked directly. But I did and do love the magic and wonder the whole Santa Claus story inspires in children (and adults).

I've actually been thinking about this a lot recently. It would be nice if I could find the time to put some of my thoughts into words.

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Ara-anna
Post subject: Re: Jesus kills Santa with gun?!?!?!?!?!?
Posted: Sat 26 Dec , 2009 10:10 pm
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Nin

I think you are saying what I was trying to say. I don't mean just faires and elves ect...but the need to believe in a higher sense of self and where we find that revelation is where we find it, be it in nature, in fantasy or in religion. I think humans as a whole need to have some ideal of what we could be, thus we see beauty in stories and in nature.

I think that Santa and Jesus and the whole gambit of all things we can find a reflection of what we imagine our higher selves to be like.

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Alatar
Post subject: Re: Jesus kills Santa with gun?!?!?!?!?!?
Posted: Mon 28 Dec , 2009 12:33 pm
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There a difference Nin. You're talking about trying to import a foreign tradition. I'm talking about people trying to take away our long held traditions. Everyone here does Santa. Always have. At least in the last 2-3 generations, I can't honestly say prior to that. But in living memory Santa is an integral part of childhood here. To try to take that away from kids due to some newfound psychological bullshit about not lying to them is what I find sad. I don't believe everyone should start forcing Hindu kids to believe in Santa, but don't try to take it away from MY kids. Thats my point.

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