board77

The Last Homely Site on the Web
It is currently Sun 23 Sep , 2018 1:30 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri 02 Apr , 2010 2:22 pm 
Daydream Believer

Joined: Mon 28 Feb , 2005 11:15 pm
Posts: 5778
Location: Pac Northwest
My digital watch says it's 8:22.

_________________
Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in

Five seconds away from the Tetons and Yellowstone


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 20 Jul , 2010 5:40 pm 
Aspiring to heresy
User avatar

Joined: Wed 23 Feb , 2005 6:54 pm
Posts: 17266
Location: Canada
Bump!

I've been trying to find updates, but have been unsuccessful so far...

_________________
Image

Melkor and Ungoliant in need of some relationship counselling.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 30 Jul , 2010 12:08 pm 
Wembley bound

Joined: Wed 25 May , 2005 7:34 pm
Posts: 4129
Location: Swiming in a fishbowl.
I just read this. At first I thought, what did all this have to do with an olympic swimmer... Then remembered that's Michael Phelps.

Stupid events really. I'm all for freedom of speech, if he had in an interview said that he thought this kid was going to hell because of whatever reason, fine. But to interrupt the most important day in a family's grieving for a lost son and hero, despicable.

We'll see who really ends up in hell*...



*(I don't actually believe in hell, I just mean on principle.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 29 Sep , 2010 3:42 am 
Kill the headlights and put it in neutral
User avatar

Joined: Tue 09 Aug , 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 5407
For those who aren't yet aware, this case will be tried before SCOTUS on October 6th. The direct issue of the case is whether or not Albert Snyder should be awarded damages for emotional suffering due to the presence of the Westboro protesters at the funeral, and how the First Amendment should be applied what is legally a private matter between individuals. The case will also decide whether or not freedom of speech trumps the right to assemble peaceably. There's a very good summary of the case on SCOTUS blog for anyone interested in tracking it.

I read a very good article in Time magazine today regarding the issues of the case, some of which are fairly nuanced. My heart goes out to poor Mr. Snyder and his family. :( All they wanted was a quiet funeral to remember their son, which was ruined by the presence of the Phelps family. At the same time, it will be a difficult case to argue due to the freedom of speech implications. I can't quite make up my mind on this. On the one hand, freedom of speech is paramount to the American political system and to American values, and any restrictions on speech make me uncomfortable. On the other hand, it doesn't sit right with me that a private funeral assembly can be disrupted by hatred that comes from a group of people with no connection whatsoever to the killed soldier or his family. The Time article is here and gives a good analysis of both viewpoints.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 29 Sep , 2010 5:06 am 
Best friends forever
User avatar

Joined: Fri 04 Feb , 2005 4:49 am
Posts: 6546
I guess I think the whole thing is appalling. And to end the appalling mess by having the SCOTUS waste millions of taxpayer dollars to decide on this?

Something is rotten and not in the state of Denmark.

_________________
Living on Earth is expensive,
but it does include a free trip
around the sun every year.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 29 Sep , 2010 10:29 am 
Aspiring to heresy
User avatar

Joined: Wed 23 Feb , 2005 6:54 pm
Posts: 17266
Location: Canada
elfshadow wrote:
The Time article is here and gives a good analysis of both viewpoints.

I only have access to the first paragraph of that article. Do you have access to the whole thing?

_________________
Image

Melkor and Ungoliant in need of some relationship counselling.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 29 Sep , 2010 1:41 pm 
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
User avatar

Joined: Thu 24 Feb , 2005 3:46 pm
Posts: 19872
Same here, Jude.

My heart says a family ought to be able to conduct a funeral in peace. We curtail the freedom of speech in schools, e.g., students can't say things that interrupt the pedagogical climate. (I just read about a case in my textbook about a student who spoke during an assembly and then started spouting off obscenities and obscene material. It made the whole student body go wild, responding with obscenities and obscene gestures. He got punished by the school, then sued, saying his 1st Amendment rights were violated, but the courts found that it was reasonable for the school to punish him and silence him as he had disrupted the learning process and atmosphere.)

Likewise, teachers have guidelines within which they have to operate; there are just things they can't say--unless they have a very, very compelling reason (e.g., an important educational goal that can't be met in another way) to do so.

A very famous example is that it's illegal to shout "fire!" in a crowded building. So we have reasonable restrictions already on the freedom of speech, and I do not think they're frightening. I think they are common sense, and we definitely, as a nation, err on the side of allowing liberty in this area rather than curtailing speech.

So I guess I think this. These protesters do have the right to assemble peacefully; they do have the right to speak their minds (as ignorant and repulsive as they are). They just do not have the right, imo, to do so in a place that interrupts the family's grieving process during the funeral and burial. If they want to stage their protest several blocks away or in another part of town, so be it. But they should not be able to be seen anywhere by the family--not near the funeral home, not near their private residence, not along the route taken by the cars to the cemetery, not by the church, not by the cemetery, nowhere.

Do I think this is a matter for the SCOTUS? :shrug: I would've preferred to see it decided by individual states.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 29 Sep , 2010 2:14 pm 
Best friends forever
User avatar

Joined: Fri 04 Feb , 2005 4:49 am
Posts: 6546
I agree with you, Lalaith. If a funeral isn't private I don't know what is. I think back to my husband's service in June and if I imagine some horrible people disrupting it for ANY reason it makes me sick. I was once at a funeral where there was a bit of an uproar casued by an estranged family member and it was just AWFUL and to think it could be strangers? I pity that family from the bottom of my heart and would cheerfully donate money for their legal bills if there was a fund.

As for the SCOTUS, I guess since it is being viewed by some as a consitutional issue, it has to go there. But in all honesty, I would have thought there were about a million other cases of greater importance.

_________________
Living on Earth is expensive,
but it does include a free trip
around the sun every year.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 29 Sep , 2010 4:31 pm 
Kill the headlights and put it in neutral
User avatar

Joined: Tue 09 Aug , 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 5407
Sorry, I didn't realize that the Time article was only available to subscribers. I have a print subscription which is where I read the article, so I'll try to see if there's a way I can access the online version and repost it here.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 05 Oct , 2010 2:43 pm 
Takoyaki is love
User avatar

Joined: Tue 22 Feb , 2005 12:55 pm
Posts: 2994
Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Does freedom of speech, trump privacy?

I do know, that some states have made specific laws concerning the Phelps and military funerals, to prevent them from disrupting funerals at the state level.This scotus thing could overturn all of that. I sort of wish this could have stayed at the state level.

I guess most most people have the sense not to protest at funerals. Also we all know, that Phelps is just using the funerals as platform to spread hate.
If some nut job was my mother's funeral, I will say, I would have done something to them.

I wish there was another word we could use another word for Fred Phelps, other then pastor, because using that term to apply to him really tarnishes that word. :(

_________________
Itoshiki Sensei from Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei. Avatar by: sparklessence

"There is no such thing as coincidence in this world, only hitsuzen." - Yuko Ichihara and Kimihiro Watanuki - xxxHolic

"I'm modest, I'll keep my knickers on and die!" - My sister Grace commenting on Bear Gryllis on an episode of Oprah :rofl:

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 05 Oct , 2010 2:46 pm 
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
User avatar

Joined: Thu 24 Feb , 2005 3:46 pm
Posts: 19872
I agree, Wilma. He is evil and repulsive. Maybe we should call him "cult leader"? There is no way this group can be considered "Baptist." That makes me mad! :rage:

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 05 Oct , 2010 3:39 pm 
bioalchemist
User avatar

Joined: Wed 16 Mar , 2005 2:10 am
Posts: 5205
Location: at a safe distance
IIRC, the rest of the Baptists have disowned him. That's about as much as can be done.

_________________
"He attacks. And here I can kill him. But I don't. That's the answer to world peace, people."
-Stickles Shihan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 05 Oct , 2010 4:07 pm 
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
User avatar

Joined: Thu 24 Feb , 2005 3:46 pm
Posts: 19872
Oh, yeah, I'm not even sure what type of Baptist he started out as, but, definitely, he is claimed by no one anymore. He's really moved into cult territory.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 11 Oct , 2010 11:19 am 
Aspiring to heresy
User avatar

Joined: Wed 23 Feb , 2005 6:54 pm
Posts: 17266
Location: Canada
There's an interesting blog by Nate Phelps, who had the misfortune to be the son of Fred Phelps, and who has rejected his family's teaching and is now living in British Columbia. In this entry, he gives his thoughts on the Phelps-Snyder case:

My thoughts on Snyder -vs- Phelps

_________________
Image

Melkor and Ungoliant in need of some relationship counselling.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 11 Oct , 2010 1:50 pm 
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
User avatar

Joined: Thu 24 Feb , 2005 3:46 pm
Posts: 19872
I agree with him.

Poor guy. Can you imagine?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 11 Oct , 2010 3:39 pm 
Best friends forever
User avatar

Joined: Fri 04 Feb , 2005 4:49 am
Posts: 6546
My heart goes out to that man.

_________________
Living on Earth is expensive,
but it does include a free trip
around the sun every year.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 14 Oct , 2010 12:32 pm 
You are hearing me talk

Joined: Mon 28 Feb , 2005 8:14 am
Posts: 2592
Location: Great Lakes
WBC is a scam. The guy's a homophobe for sure, but the main purpose for all these protests is to make money by provoking retaliation and then suing everyone in sight.
http://kanewj.com/wbc/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu 14 Oct , 2010 12:42 pm 
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
User avatar

Joined: Thu 24 Feb , 2005 3:46 pm
Posts: 19872
That's very interesting. Very interesting!

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 17 Mar , 2014 1:24 pm 
Aspiring to heresy
User avatar

Joined: Wed 23 Feb , 2005 6:54 pm
Posts: 17266
Location: Canada
Well, it appears that Fred Phelps is dying.

Meh. Good riddance.

I kinda hope that people won't stoop to the level of the WBC by disrupting his funeral. But I won't shed any tears if they do.

_________________
Image

Melkor and Ungoliant in need of some relationship counselling.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 17 Mar , 2014 2:03 pm 
The Grey Amaretto as Supermega-awesome Proud Heretic Girl
User avatar

Joined: Thu 24 Feb , 2005 3:46 pm
Posts: 19872
Actually, what a powerful way to show that we're not at his level--by not picketing his funeral and spewing hatred the way he did. He is a horrible, evil man, but I can hope and pray that he repents of his hatred and sins before he dies.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group