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You've been Trumped!

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Alatar
Post subject: Re: You've been Trumped!
Posted: Fri 01 Dec , 2017 5:34 pm
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I used to always agree with respecting the flag, but its become such a symbol of Jingoistic patriotism I'm all for letting it lose that respect.

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Jude
Post subject: Re: You've been Trumped!
Posted: Fri 01 Dec , 2017 5:46 pm
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Wait, that video wasn't a spoof? :Q

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Frelga
Post subject: Re: You've been Trumped!
Posted: Fri 01 Dec , 2017 6:02 pm
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These days, it takes me a few takes to figure out if a headline is from the Onion or a real news source (I can always tell when it's from Fox).

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Sunsilver
Post subject: Re: You've been Trumped!
Posted: Fri 01 Dec , 2017 6:15 pm
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Alatar wrote:
I used to always agree with respecting the flag, but its become such a symbol of Jingoistic patriotism I'm all for letting it lose that respect.
I totally agree with you there, Alatar. The only reason I mentioned it was because Trump supporters claim THIS is disrespecting the flag! :roll: No, not wearing stars and stripes underwear or socks, but kneeling for the national anthem. :bang:

Last I checked, it doesn't get much more respectful than kneeling. We used to bow the knee to royalty, and those receiving knighthoods from the Queen still do it.

And yes, Jude, you can have your very own Trumpy Bear, for just 2 payments of $19.95! :help: Doesn't that commercial just make you wanna puke?

I am sure the narcissist in the Oval Office is very pleased!


Hmm...might be tempted to get one, so I can stick pins in it... :devil:

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aninkling
Post subject: Re: You've been Trumped!
Posted: Fri 01 Dec , 2017 7:17 pm
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I think I get better catalogs. :) A mainstream, mostly nonpolitical, gift catalog has a bright orange-haired Trump "stress relief" doll (I think you poke pins into it or stretch it or something) and a countdown clock until the end of Trump's reign. It tells you something when this same catalog never carried anything negative about a president before.

Anyway, I just dropped by to post this. Maybe wishful thinking, but it looks like things might be starting to happen after Flynn's plea bargain.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... t-with-the
Quote:
Former national security adviser Michael Flynn is expected to testify that President Trump instructed him to contact Russian officials during the 2016 campaign, according to a report by ABC News.

Flynn is saying that Trump "directed him to make contact with the Russians," ABC's Brian Ross said Friday, just moments after Flynn entered a guilty plea for lying about his contact with Russians during the presidential transition period
.


I'll just post a link to The Hill's 12:30 report for the rest of the developing Flynn story. There are several links:
http://thehill.com/homenews/1230-report ... gloo-in-dc


btw (re NFL), I've heard that the kneeling idea was actually suggested by a military veteran as a way to protest but show respect. Not that Trump would care - he's just out to inflame his supporters and distract attention.

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Society can and does execute its own mandates, and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. ― John Stuart Mill


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aninkling
Post subject: Re: You've been Trumped!
Posted: Fri 01 Dec , 2017 7:57 pm
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Oh, wow. Someone just shared this:

Quote:
James Comey

@Comey
“But justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream” Amos 5:24 https://www.instagram.com/p/BcKtEUUg4Qa/
12:01 PM - Dec 1, 2017
6,372 6,372 Replies 33,300 33,300 Retweets 72,585 72,585 likes
I hope this means what I think it means.

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Society can and does execute its own mandates, and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. ― John Stuart Mill


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Jude
Post subject: Re: You've been Trumped!
Posted: Fri 01 Dec , 2017 8:23 pm
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What do you think it means? Because I haven't the foggiest.

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aninkling
Post subject: Re: You've been Trumped!
Posted: Fri 01 Dec , 2017 8:31 pm
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I hope it means that Comey knows it's coming to an end for Trump.

I assume he still has ties to the FBI and knows things we don't. And with Flynn about to testify that Trump himself directed him to make contact with the Russians...


Edit: Hmm, I'm not sure now if The Hill article meant Trump himself - or Trump, as in the Trump administration. But it's still looking significant:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ssia-probe
Quote:
Former national security adviser Michael Flynn pleaded guilty to lying to federal agents and is providing cooperation that promises to take Special Counsel Robert Mueller deep into Donald Trump’s administration.

Speaking in court as part of his plea agreement, Flynn, 58, described a series of conversations with the Russian ambassador to the U.S., Sergey Kislyak, in late December as the Trump team prepared to enter the White House. The talks were instigated by a “very senior member” of the Trump transition team. That person was Jared Kushner, the president’s son in law and adviser, as reported by Bloomberg View columnist Eli Lake.

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Society can and does execute its own mandates, and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. ― John Stuart Mill


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aninkling
Post subject: Re: You've been Trumped!
Posted: Fri 01 Dec , 2017 11:11 pm
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It seems the Trump administration has no real idea how to spin this:
http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... th-russian
Quote:
The White House said on Friday that it was the Obama administration that authorized former national security adviser Michael Flynn's contacts with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak during President Trump's transition, according to CNN.

...But former DNI Clapper just told CNN that's "absurd."
Quote:
Court records indicate that his communications with Kislyak were directed by a Trump transition official, with multiple news outlets reporting that official was Trump's son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner.

...The White House did not immediately respond to The Hill's request for comment.

_________________

Society can and does execute its own mandates, and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. ― John Stuart Mill


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aninkling
Post subject: Re: You've been Trumped!
Posted: Mon 04 Dec , 2017 3:09 pm
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ABC News apparently did say that Flynn would say Trump was directly involved and is facing a lot of criticism for it. Of course, most of us realize that if Kushner and another senior official directed Flynn, it's unlikely that Trump wasn't involved.


An analysis of the President's tweet about knowing that Flynn had lied to the FBI, from The Atlantic - including the later claim that he didn't compose the tweet at all - his lawyer did - and the speculation about whether or not that's true.
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainme ... et/547361/
Quote:
The tweet published to Trump’s account clearly implied that he already knew that Flynn had deceived the Feds when he fired him back in February: “I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!”

That unleashed a frenzy of speculation about whether Trump had just admitted to obstructing justice, since it seems he must have known that Flynn had committed a felony when he was pressuring then-FBI director James Comey to ease up on the Flynn case.

But then ... the Washington Post reported that “Trump’s lawyer John Dowd drafted the president’s tweet, according to two people familiar with the twitter message.”
btw, there are reports that Trump didn't just ask Comey to drop the case - he's repeatedly asked members of Congress to drop the investigations into Russian connections. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/us/p ... intel.html



A really stunning remark by Trump's lawyer:
http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... ct-justice
Quote:
The "President cannot obstruct justice because he is the chief law enforcement officer under [the Constitution's Article II] and has every right to express his view of any case," attorney John Dowd told Axios.

Jared Kushner's response so far is to say nothing. But it's a bit amazing that some groups are actually praising him for attacking the norms of government in the US:
https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... mp/547367/
Quote:
“You and your team were taking steps to try and get the United Nations Security Council to not go along with what ended up being [an] abstention by the U.S.,” said the Israeli-American billionaire Haim Saban shortly after Kushner took the stage at the eponymous Saban Forum, an annual gathering of U.S. and Israeli leaders organized by the Brookings Institution. “As far as I know there was nothing illegal there. But I think that this crowd, and myself, want to thank you for making that effort.” It was a stunning way to open the discussion—not with a pointed question of a man at the center of a churning news cycle, but with pointed praise.

...That there was “nothing illegal” here isn’t a universally held view; some point to potential violations of the obscure, nearly-never-enforced Logan Act, which prohibits unauthorized private U.S. citizens—which Flynn and Kushner were back in December 2016 when the UN resolution came up for a vote—from negotiating with foreign governments. But more remarkable than Saban’s observation about the law was the subtle statement that he and Kushner made about the long-held, seemingly unshakeable political norm that the United States has one president at a time. The message from their brief exchange on the Flynn news was that if the cause is worthy enough, there’s no problem with having two presidents at once.
Though it's interesting that Trump's first attempt to wiggle out of responsibility was to claim that the Obama administration authorized Flynn to contact the Russians.


Trump is planning to announce today that he's gutting some national monuments. This is especially interesting given that the government received millions of comments from Americans about the national monuments review and, if I remember numbers right, 98% want our national monuments left alone and 99% want the marine monuments not to be touched. Some senators want to know why he hasn't consulted the Forest Service either:
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-enviro ... -monuments
Quote:
Two Senate Democrats want President Trump to explain why he plans to shrink some national monuments without getting the U.S. Forest Service’s recommendation to do so first.

...Trump is expected to announce his plan to shrink at least two national monuments in Utah on Monday. One of the monuments, the 1.3-million acre Bears Ears, contains some Forest Service land.

And the Trump administration won't hold hard rock mining companies responsible for cleaning up their sites.
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-enviro ... up-funding
Quote:
The Trump administration said Friday it will not issue a regulation to ensure that hard-rock mining companies can pay for the costs to clean up their mines when they’re finished. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) announced the decision late Friday, reversing from a proposal that the Obama administration had issued a year ago.

...It would have applied to companies mining non-coal minerals such as gold, silver, copper or lead, requiring them to demonstrate financial responsibility through means like bonds or insurance.

_________________

Society can and does execute its own mandates, and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. ― John Stuart Mill


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Frelga
Post subject: Re: You've been Trumped!
Posted: Mon 04 Dec , 2017 7:36 pm
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My favorite reaction tweet
Quote:
As a lawyer, I can confirm that I frequently compose tweets confessing to crimes and send them from my clients’ twitter accounts. It’s the first thing you learn at law school.
https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/sta ... 9219139584

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aninkling
Post subject: Re: You've been Trumped!
Posted: Mon 04 Dec , 2017 9:21 pm
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:D
Dowd is also quite good at imitating Trump's twitter style, isn't he? I guess they learn that in law school too.

Or as a former federal prosecutor put it:
Quote:
Lying to the FBI is a federal offense — a serious felony — and Flynn pleaded guilty to that offense on Friday. If Trump knew Flynn committed a serious crime, told the FBI director to drop the case anyway, then fired him when he wouldn’t drop the case, that is powerful evidence of obstruction of justice.

That’s why Dowd now claims that he wrote that tweet, which is difficult to believe. Lawyers typically make statements in their name, not their client’s name, so the statements can’t be used against the client. He wants us to believe that he wrote a tweet with inaccurate information without checking with his client, and put it in his client’s name without his client’s approval. That just isn’t credible.
http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/ ... ct-justice



Trump and Zinke try to destroy their first national monuments:
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-enviro ... rotections
Quote:
Trump signed proclamations scaling back Obama’s 1.4-million-acre Bears Ears National Monument to 220,000 acres — an 84 percent reduction — and Clinton’s 1.9-million-acre Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument to 1 million acres — a reduction by nearly half. It’s the largest-ever rollback of protected areas in history, environmental groups say.
We don't know for sure which other monuments are next because Zinke was so secretive with his report but I remember rumors that Maine's new monument and one in Oregon might be among those targeted.


Roy Moore looks forward to helping Trump "make America great" again. Trump just announced his endorsement of Moore. Because you should always vote for the member of your own party even if he's a loony extremist who, at the very minimum, appears at least guilty of creepy behavior toward women (someone who exclusively dates teenage girls in his 30s doesn't strike me as someone who has healthy, equal relationships with grown women).
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/36 ... intheswamp
Quote:
Republican Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore, who has been embroiled in a sexual misconduct scandal for weeks, on Monday thanked President Trump for his endorsement.

“Thankful for President Trump's support. The America First agenda will #MAGA,” Moore wrote on Twitter.“Can't wait to help him #DrainTheSwamp. #ALSEN.”
I think we all know how much Trump wants to drain the swamp by now.


And tough luck, cities. The federal government has no interest in helping you deal with the effects of hurricanes, sea level rise, etc.
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-enviro ... ate-change
Quote:
The Trump administration is disbanding an interagency panel that was created to help cities deal with the effects of climate change.

...The Department of Commerce, whose National Institute of Standards and Technology oversaw the group, did not respond to Bloomberg’s request for comment.

Former President Obama created the committee in 2015. It included representatives of the Environmental Protection Agency, the Federal Emergency Management Agency and other agencies. It was tasked with finding ways for cities to build in more resilient ways and better survive rising sea levels.

Lots of environmental Christmas presents from Trump this year. Bet he's counting on people being distracted by the holidays.

_________________

Society can and does execute its own mandates, and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. ― John Stuart Mill


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aninkling
Post subject: Re: You've been Trumped!
Posted: Mon 04 Dec , 2017 11:24 pm
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More on the national monuments:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

This includes some interesting tidbits:
Quote:
Both Trump and Zinke implied Monday that monument designations had impeded public access: “Our public land is for the public to use, not special interests,” Zinke said.

But Outdoor Industry Association Executive Director Amy Roberts said in an interview that the notion “is flat-out wrong” and that business thrived in the 20 years since Grand Staircase-Escalante.

Apparently Trump and Zinke ignored the millions of comments from ordinary Americans in favor of pleasing certain Trump supporters, including Orrin Hatch:
Quote:
A senior White House official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations, said the push to change the monument designations was driven by Hatch, House Natural Resources Committee Chairman Rob Bishop (R-Utah) and Zinke....Trump “really likes” Hatch, the White House official said, because he supports his agenda, defends him on TV, praises his children and has a sense of humor. He appreciates his work on the Senate’s tax overhaul bill, the aide added, and is hoping the 83-year old incumbent will run for reelection next year rather than provide an opening for Trump political rival Mitt Romney.
Quote:
Trump and his deputies have worked to address the concerns raised by Utah politicians such as Sen. Orrin G. Hatch (R) and executives in the mining, ranching and oil and gas industries.
I guess the swamp, as defined by Trump, doesn't include the lobbying by these industries.
Quote:
Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke... has recommended downsizing Oregon’s Cascade-Siskiyou and Nevada’s Gold Butte national monuments and shifting the way several others are managed, according to a copy obtained by The Washington Post in September. If these revisions are successfully sustained in court, they would redefine the extent to which future presidents could dictate public lands remain untouched.
I'm willing to bet that "shifting the way several others are managed" means that industry wins and everyone else loses.

_________________

Society can and does execute its own mandates, and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. ― John Stuart Mill


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aninkling
Post subject: Re: You've been Trumped!
Posted: Tue 05 Dec , 2017 2:32 pm
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Republican leadership has the backbone of a jellyfish when it comes to Trump.:
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/36 ... in-alabama
Quote:
The Republican National Committee is reinstating its support of Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore after initially cutting ties over allegations of sexual misconduct, two sources confirmed to The Hill Monday. Breitbart News first reported that the RNC had decided to step back into the race just hours after President Trump fully endorsed the controversial candidate.

...The RNC's change of heart comes after it and the National Republican Senatorial Committee (NRSC), the party's Senate campaign arm, announced last month that they would not support Moore even after Trump stood by him.

Trump is so concerned about terrorism and violence. Except when he isn't, just to make a symbolic gesture no other US president - Republican or Democrat - has thought worth the cost.
http://thehill.com/policy/international ... -jerusalem
Quote:
The State Department is reportedly warning U.S. embassies around the world to tighten security ahead of a possible announcement on the recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital by President Trump on Wednesday. Politico reports that State Department officials are worried Trump's possible declaration could lead to violence targeting U.S. embassies and diplomatic staff.

...The U.S. currently recognizes Tel Aviv as Israel's capital, and the U.S. embassy is located there. Under a 1995 law, the president must recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital or make a declaration every six months that such a move would harm U.S. national security interests.

Edit - the history of Jerusalem, the 1995 law, and probable backlash on recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital,
https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/11/30/ho ... jerusalem/
Quote:
Predicting the Trump administration’s next move regarding the U.S. Embassy in Israel is difficult. Trump’s own statements have indicated a tension between his commitment to relocating the embassy and his interest in making progress on Israeli-Palestinian peace negotiations. Moreover, his foreign policy instincts have proven unpredictable, unafraid of disruption, and particularly sensitive to domestic constituencies, all factors that may bear on his decision.

The worst-case scenario would be if Trump makes a decision on short notice and announces the establishment of an embassy in Jerusalem without any diplomatic groundwork being laid. In this scenario, we are likely to see a high decibel reaction throughout the Arab world as both Arab leaders and their constituencies react to the United States’ surprise reversal on such a sensitive issue. Popular reactions to such a decision could result in widespread protests and even violence, and would likely put pressure on key Arab allies. Jordan, with its large Palestinian population, may face pressure to chill its relationship with Israel or face serious unrest. And Saudi Arabia may feel the need to back away from the close relationship it appears to be forging with the Trump administration. At a minimum, Palestinians will almost certainly be outraged and any ongoing peace negotiations are likely to go on an extended hiatus. And while larger structural realities will likely force the Palestinians back into dialogue with the United States at some point, the intervening pause is likely to be a long one.

_________________

Society can and does execute its own mandates, and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. ― John Stuart Mill


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aninkling
Post subject: Re: You've been Trumped!
Posted: Tue 05 Dec , 2017 5:58 pm
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An article I saw reported in The Hill. I looked up the original. If this is happening, it's extremely disturbing - the proposal is for a secret spy agency accountable only to Pompeo and the president, which will not share information with official intelligence agencies:
https://theintercept.com/2017/12/04/tru ... e-enemies/
Quote:
The Trump administration is considering a set of proposals developed by Blackwater founder Erik Prince and a retired CIA officer — with assistance from Oliver North, a key figure in the Iran-Contra scandal — to provide CIA Director Mike Pompeo and the White House with a global, private spy network that would circumvent official U.S. intelligence agencies, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials and others familiar with the proposals. The sources say the plans have been pitched to the White House as a means of countering “deep state” enemies in the intelligence community seeking to undermine Donald Trump’s presidency.

... a former senior U.S. intelligence official with firsthand knowledge of the proposals [said] the intelligence collected would not be shared with the rest of the CIA or the larger intelligence community. “The whole point is this is supposed to report to the president and Pompeo directly.”

_________________

Society can and does execute its own mandates, and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. ― John Stuart Mill


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Frelga
Post subject: Re: You've been Trumped!
Posted: Tue 05 Dec , 2017 7:50 pm
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If you had any doubts that Trump takes Putin as his model, there's your proof.

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aninkling
Post subject: Re: You've been Trumped!
Posted: Wed 06 Dec , 2017 3:12 pm
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Oh, I don't think Trump has left much doubt about who he admires - he meets with Putin at every opportunity, preferably without outside observers, refused to condemn Erdogan's thugs when they severely beat protesters in the U.S., tells Philippines President Duterte he's doing a great job... and alienates our normal allies.

And I don't doubt Trump buys into the "deep state" bullshit. After all, why else would much of the U.S. and most of the world not admire his brilliance, unless there's a conspiracy against him?


Next up, in the list of national monuments to be reduced or opened to drilling, mining, logging and unrestricted off-road vehicle use -
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimdalrympleii ... e-national
Quote:
The Interior Department recommended on Tuesday shrinking Gold Butte National Monument, a nearly 300,000-acre site in Nevada, and Cascade-Siskiyou National Monument, which spans just over 100,000 acres on the California–Oregon border. The department did not describe the new boundaries in its report, but repeatedly mentioned confining monuments to the "smallest area compatible" — a phrase that comes from the law allowing presidents to set aside land without congressional approval.

...Tuesday's report also recommends changes to:

Katahdin Woods and Waters National Monument in Maine
Northeast Canyons and Seamounts Marine National Monument off the coast of New England
Organ Mountains-Desert Peaks and Rio Grande Del Norte national monuments in New Mexico
Pacific Remote Islands and Rose Atoll marine national monuments in the Pacific Ocean

Of those monuments, only the recommendations for Rose Atoll and Pacific Remote Islands mention the possibility of boundary revisions. The exact changes in store for the others go largely unspecified, but they may include "prioritizing public access," infrastructure upgrades, timber management, and fishery management.
And, interestingly,
Quote:
The Interior Department also is proposing three new monuments, including a 130,000-acre section of the Lewis and Clark National Forest in Montana — the home state of Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke.


From National Geographic,
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/201 ... ink-trump/
Quote:
See the Wild Places That May Lose Protections as National Monuments
Four protected areas could shrink and six others could be opened to mining, logging, and [commercial] fishing, based on new recommendations to President Trump.
A couple of interesting things from this article:
Quote:
Since then, presidents have downsized 18 monuments, most with minor adjustments. The exception is the 639,000-acre Mount Olympus National Monument, created by Roosevelt in 1909 and cut in half by President Woodrow Wilson in 1915 to keep a supply of timber flowing to build Navy ships for World War I. None of these prior resizings were challenged in court, and that is the legal question to be answered if Trump acts.
So the one monument that was significantly downsized previously was done in a time of major war, when resources were actually needed.
Quote:
Enric Sala, a National Geographic explorer in residence, said the recommendation to open the marine monuments to commercial fishing hampers the ability to restore fisheries—one of the reasons the marine monuments were set up. The Pacific monuments were set up by President George W. Bush and expanded by Obama. After Obama created the Atlantic monument, five commercial fishing groups sued in federal court. The suit is now on hold until Trump’s review is finalized.

“The Hawaii tuna fleet does not need to fish within the Pacific Remote Islands,” he says. “Before the expansion of the monument in 2014, less than five percent of the catch was taken within that area. Tuna grow and reproduce more when they have a refuge, thus helping to replenish fisheries around no-take areas.


Many businesses are also not happy:
http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-an ... nts-intact
Quote:
As Americans await President Donald Trump’s final decision on whether to diminish some of the country’s national monuments, members of the business community from Maine to California are speaking up in defense of these public lands and the critical roles they play in boosting local economies. In a letter to Gary D. Cohn, director of the National Economic Council, nearly 600 business leaders from 26 states and two territories expressed “serious concerns” about possible changes to the landscapes and seascapes now safeguarded as national monuments.


While, from Fox news, basically "you should all be happy because there will now be more money to spend on national parks without these lands to conserve and spend money on" - conveniently ignoring that there isn't enough money because the government isn't funding the parks properly (and thatTrump/ Zinke have simultaneously proposed doubling entrance fees to national parks):
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/12/ ... ision.html
Quote:
President Trump’s decision to reduce the size of the Bears Ears and Staircase-Escalante National Monuments in Utah, announced Monday on his visit to the state, is a good one and an example of his policies that will benefit every American who enjoys national parks and monuments.

....In places where restrictive conservation rules are less justified, we can even authorize responsible resource extraction.
("resource extraction" being the euphemism, of course, for drilling, mining and logging)

It includes an amazing gymnastics effort to convince us that Native Americans, who have already sued the government over Trump's announcement, should instead be happy (and gee, I didn't realize that national monuments discouraged outdoor recreation. As far as I know, even hunting is OK in some places.):
Quote:
Furthermore, those who wish to use the land for other purposes – such as hunting, fishing, camping, and outdoor recreation – will now also have access.

For Utah Native Americans, this improved access is important.
And of course, an appeal to our social consciences:
Quote:
With expanded access, the elderly, disabled and even wounded veterans can utilize bikes or off-highway vehicles to access spectacular places.
I can just see it now - crowds of elderly retirees on off-road vehicles and dirt bikes, tearing through the archeological sites, yelling "yipee!" Yeah, right.




btw, peace on earth to everyone this holiday season from Trump, who did decide that he's smarter than everyone else and formally recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... hite-house

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Society can and does execute its own mandates, and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. ― John Stuart Mill


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Frelga
Post subject: Re: You've been Trumped!
Posted: Wed 06 Dec , 2017 5:08 pm
A green apple painted red
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I can't imagine even Israel is happy with recognizing Jerusalem as a capital. People will die. Americans will die.

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aninkling
Post subject: Re: You've been Trumped!
Posted: Wed 06 Dec , 2017 9:05 pm
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Not to mention that he's stirring up a hornet's nest in the Middle East for no good reason, when there are enough concerns both there and in Asia (North Korea).

IMO, this is possibly the stupidest and most dangerous thing Trump has done, and he's done a lot of dumb things - including retweeting those white supremacist videos from an official US government account.

All we can hope now is that others show restraint and realize we have a moron for a president.

_________________

Society can and does execute its own mandates, and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. ― John Stuart Mill


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Frelga
Post subject: Re: You've been Trumped!
Posted: Wed 06 Dec , 2017 10:08 pm
A green apple painted red
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More likely, extremists on both sides will jump on the excuse for violence and chaos. Jerusalem is a supremely delicate balancing act, and we just had an elephant lumber into it.

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