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More Boeing troubles

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aninkling
Post subject: More Boeing troubles
Posted: Fri 08 Nov , 2019 3:18 pm
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https://thehill.com/policy/transportati ... max-return
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Boeing's embattled 737 Max aircraft was reportedly almost finished being redesigned in June when a simulated flight of the plane almost crashed.

Bloomberg reports that a computer glitch caused the simulated plane to aggressively dive in a way that resembled how fatal crashes in Ethiopia and Indonesia occurred earlier in the year.

The simulated failure led to an extensive redesign of the plane's computers, which has resulted in a lengthy delay of the plane returning to action....
I don't know about anyone else but I don't want this plane to be returned to service at all. To me, it looks like they really screwed up when they put the enlarged engines in a different spot on an old frame with wings that were too low. The software compensation for the problems is looking more and more like a band-aid on a huge, gaping wound.

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Jude
Post subject: Re: More Boeing troubles
Posted: Fri 08 Nov , 2019 6:36 pm
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I've been following this story from the beginning, but this simulated crash from June is news to me.

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Frelga
Post subject: Re: More Boeing troubles
Posted: Fri 08 Nov , 2019 8:54 pm
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They are trying to fix bad hardware design with a software fix. This is a bad idea.

Imagine someone makes a stove that tends to catch fire under certain conditions. They try to fix it by adding something that turns off the stove under those conditions before it catches fire. But they do nothing about the things that cause it to catch fire. Then they don't say anything to anybody and put stoves in people's homes. Would you ever feel safe with it in your house?

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Dave_LF
Post subject: Re: More Boeing troubles
Posted: Fri 08 Nov , 2019 9:33 pm
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Frelga wrote:
They are trying to fix bad hardware design with a software fix. This is a bad idea.
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aninkling
Post subject: Re: More Boeing troubles
Posted: Mon 11 Nov , 2019 10:49 pm
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I don't suppose it will surprise anyone that the FAA is letting Boeing put the Max planes back in service in January:
https://thehill.com/policy/transportati ... in-january

Quote:
I've been following this story from the beginning, but this simulated crash from June is news to me.
Jude, did you see these? I'd bet both the FAA and Boeing hoped none of this would come out.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/02/busi ... ashes.html
Quote:
A senior Boeing engineer filed an internal ethics complaint this year saying that during the development of the 737 Max jet the company had rejected a safety system to minimize costs, equipment that he felt could have reduced risks that contributed to two fatal crashes.

Boeing has provided the complaint, which was reviewed by The New York Times, to the Department of Justice as part of a criminal investigation into the design of the Max, according to a person with knowledge of the inquiry, who requested anonymity given the active legal matter. Federal investigators have questioned at least one former Boeing employee about the allegations, said another person with knowledge of the discussions, who similarly requested anonymity.

It is unclear what, if any, assessment investigators have made of the complaint.

The complaint, filed after the two crashes, builds on concerns about Boeing’s corporate culture, as the company tries to repair its reputation and get the planes flying again.

Many current and former Boeing employees have privately discussed problems with the design and decision-making process on the 737 Max, outlining episodes when managers dismissed engineers’ recommendations or put a priority on profits....

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/20/busi ... blems.html
Quote:
Claims of Shoddy Production Draw Scrutiny to a Second Boeing Jet

Workers at a 787 Dreamliner plant in South Carolina have complained of defective manufacturing, debris left on planes and pressure to not report violations.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/26/us/p ... g-faa.html
Quote:
After Boeing Crashes, Sharp Questions About Industry Regulating Itself

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Jude
Post subject: Re: More Boeing troubles
Posted: Tue 12 Nov , 2019 11:23 am
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aninkling wrote:
Jude, did you see these? I'd bet both the FAA and Boeing hoped none of this would come out.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/02/busi ... ashes.html
Quote:
A senior Boeing engineer filed an internal ethics complaint this year saying that during the development of the 737 Max jet the company had rejected a safety system to minimize costs, equipment that he felt could have reduced risks that contributed to two fatal crashes.

Boeing has provided the complaint, which was reviewed by The New York Times, to the Department of Justice as part of a criminal investigation into the design of the Max, according to a person with knowledge of the inquiry, who requested anonymity given the active legal matter. Federal investigators have questioned at least one former Boeing employee about the allegations, said another person with knowledge of the discussions, who similarly requested anonymity.

It is unclear what, if any, assessment investigators have made of the complaint.

The complaint, filed after the two crashes, builds on concerns about Boeing’s corporate culture, as the company tries to repair its reputation and get the planes flying again.

Many current and former Boeing employees have privately discussed problems with the design and decision-making process on the 737 Max, outlining episodes when managers dismissed engineers’ recommendations or put a priority on profits....
I hadn't seen those particular allegations, no.

"Minimize costs"? That backfired spectacularly.

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aninkling
Post subject: Re: More Boeing troubles
Posted: Wed 11 Dec , 2019 2:55 pm
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https://thehill.com/policy/transportati ... hes-report
Quote:
A U.S. government review last year reportedly found that the Boeing 737 Max had a high risk of crashes, but regulators allowed the planes to remain in the air.

The Wall Street Journal reported Wednesday, citing industry officials and regulators, that a November 2018 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) analysis, which followed a fatal crash of the aircraft in Indonesia, said that the 737 Max could have averaged one crash every two to three years....

"It was clear from the beginning that an unsafe condition existed," An FAA spokesperson told the Journal on Tuesday, noting that the analysis “provided additional context in helping determine the mitigation action.” ...

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Frelga
Post subject: Re: More Boeing troubles
Posted: Thu 12 Dec , 2019 4:17 am
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Deregulation, ladies and gentlemen.

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aninkling
Post subject: Re: More Boeing troubles
Posted: Tue 17 Dec , 2019 7:02 pm
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https://thehill.com/policy/transportati ... -defective
Quote:
The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) announced Friday that it is fining Boeing more than $3.9 million for installing faulty parts on approximately 133 of its 737 jets.

The FAA said in a statement that Boeing did not sufficiently oversee its suppliers to make sure they complied with its quality assurance system, a decision that resulted in the installation of weakened parts that are located on the jets’ wings and help with takeoff and landing.

The FAA also said that Boeing was made aware of the issues by suppliers and still certified the jets as airworthy. ...

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Jude
Post subject: Re: More Boeing troubles
Posted: Tue 17 Dec , 2019 7:19 pm
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You just reminded me of this CBC article from yesterday: Boeing to suspend production of 737 Max next month

All I took away from that was "You mean they've actually kept making them all this time???"

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aninkling
Post subject: Re: More Boeing troubles
Posted: Wed 08 Jan , 2020 2:37 pm
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https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/boei ... 41198.html
Quote:
Boeing Co said it will reassign 3,000 workers to other jobs as it halts production of the grounded best-selling 737 MAX jet in mid-January.

The announcement came after American Airlines Group Inc and Mexico's Aeromexico disclosed they were the latest carriers to reach settlements with Boeing over losses resulting from the grounding of the 737 MAX aircraft....

Reuters has reported the Federal Aviation Administration is not expected to approve the plane's return to service until at least February and potentially March or later....

Boeing and the FAA said on Sunday they are reviewing a potentially serious wiring issue that could delay the return of the 737 MAX...
I don't have a link but I believe the wiring issue is something that could result in the pilot losing control of the tail flaps, which could make it extremely difficult or impossible to land the plane safely. It seems to be unrelated to the Max's fundamental issues but part of the news about generally shoddy workmanship on Boeing's planes.

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Society can and does execute its own mandates, and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. ― John Stuart Mill


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aninkling
Post subject: Re: More Boeing troubles
Posted: Fri 10 Jan , 2020 2:57 pm
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https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/monk ... 40240.html
Quote:
'Clowns' and 'monkeys': New Boeing messages show 737 MAX concerns

Redacted versions of internal communications raised questions about Boeing's efforts to evade scrutiny from regulators.
Quote:
The Boeing Company has released hundreds of internal messages that raise serious questions about its development of simulators and the 737 MAX that was grounded in March after two fatal crashes, prompting outrage from the United States legislators....

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Society can and does execute its own mandates, and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. ― John Stuart Mill


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Jude
Post subject: Re: More Boeing troubles
Posted: Fri 10 Jan , 2020 3:53 pm
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That was reported by CBC as well. The most interesting part to me was this (emphasis mine):
Quote:
In an instant messaging exchange on Feb. 8, 2018 — when the plane was in the air, and eight months before the first of two fatal crashes — an employee asks another: "Would you put your family on a Max simulator trained aircraft? I wouldn't."

The second employee responds: "No."

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aninkling
Post subject: Re: More Boeing troubles
Posted: Fri 10 Jan , 2020 5:14 pm
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Yeah, I thought that was pretty telling.

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Society can and does execute its own mandates, and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. ― John Stuart Mill


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Frelga
Post subject: Re: More Boeing troubles
Posted: Sat 11 Jan , 2020 5:00 pm
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aninkling
Post subject: Re: More Boeing troubles
Posted: Mon 20 Jan , 2020 6:27 pm
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https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/soft ... 52948.html
Quote:
Boeing Co. has identified a new software flaw in the grounded 737 Max that will require additional work, possibly further delaying the plane’s return to service....

The issue involves how software on the plane checks itself to ensure it’s receiving valid data, said a person familiar with the issue who wasn’t authorized to speak publicly about it. It occurs when the system is initially starting up, the person said.

“We are making necessary updates and working with the FAA on submission of this change, and keeping our customers and suppliers informed,” Boeing said in its statement. “Our highest priority is ensuring the 737 MAX is safe and meets all regulatory requirements before it returns to service.”...
No word on whether they managed to say that last part with a straight face.

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Society can and does execute its own mandates, and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself. ― John Stuart Mill


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