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Bill to ban abortions of babies with "gay gene"

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 3:35 am
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I don't think there is a gay gene, even recessive anymore than some of the other "possible" genes mentioned here.

Going after abortion using the gay angle is pretty innovative. It shows some politicians are at least paying attention to the populace. It's nice to know that we matter, even when what's being done is sneaksy and tricksy.

Whistler, thanks for answering my question and I didn't mean to drag you into a Manwe-style discussion.

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Di of Long Cleeve
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 11:14 am
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Whistler wrote:
Since TED has asked...

I am (as far as I can tell) the board’s only Christian conservative, and I will say flatly that this whole notion is monstrous to me, and would be so to every Christian in my acquaintance. I object to abortion as a means of birth control, and certainly I object to it as a means of culling out types that are judged defective or otherwise undesirable by society, by religion, or by their parents. And the whole discussion is silly to begin with, as no “gay gene” has been found. Nor, I think, is one likely to be.
Hear hear Whistler. I am with you all the way.

:cheers

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Anthriel
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Posted: Tue 15 Mar , 2005 5:44 pm
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So... is this really a Manwe-type discussion?

And I'm going to knowingly join in?

<mommy>

I am also a Christian, but am rather defiant about labelling myself further than that, and am not too tickled with people who would like slap labels on me.

That being said, I think this is all REALLY entertaining!

This legislator has managed to stir the pots of anti-abortion activists, gay-rights activists, pro-choice activists, and pro- and anti- hate crimes activists with one bill that has NO current applicability.

It is based solely on the assumption of how some future person might someday make a moral decision to apply technology that does not currently exist to detect something that may not actually even be there. And if they should have that legal right to make that moral decision. If it ever happened.


What a hoot.

:LMAO:


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yovargas
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Posted: Tue 15 Mar , 2005 6:01 pm
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TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
I don't think there is a gay gene, even recessive anymore than some of the other "possible" genes mentioned here.
On what do you base that belief?


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vison
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Posted: Tue 15 Mar , 2005 6:06 pm
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While it is true that some animal behavior that appears to be "homosexual" is in fact dominance assertion, that is not always the case.

For one thing, in many social animal groupings, it is the Females that rule the roost. Dominance behavior in these groups is very different.

For another, it is a fallacy to assume that anything we see in the other animals is going to apply to humans. Our social cultures are more complex than that of even Chimpanzees, our closest living relatives.

Heredity is a very, very complicated issue. IF cultural affects could be ignored, there might be some point to pursuing the heredity thing. But we can't remove culture from any discussion of human behavior.

Two brown eyed parents can have a blue eyed child. Two straight parents can obviously have a "gay" child.

The issue is, is Homosexuality "natural"? In my mind it is. It has been part of human life for as far back as we are able to know. I can see no reason to name it sinful or unnatural. It is part of us.

To talk of aborting "gay" foetuses is the cleverest political ploy I've ever seen. The guy must be a genius.

Did you know that in my grandmother's day the word "genius" was used to refer to those we now call "mentally retarded"?

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Tue 15 Mar , 2005 9:09 pm
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Quote:
On what do you base that belief?
Based on the hereditary factor.

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tinwe
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Posted: Wed 16 Mar , 2005 1:20 am
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TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
Quote:
On what do you base that belief?
Based on the hereditary factor.
Given that societal constraints have often lead homosexuals to marry and mate with members of the opposite sex, it is not hard to see how a gay gene could have survived through inheritance.

Last edited by tinwe on Sat 11 Jun , 2005 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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yovargas
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Posted: Wed 16 Mar , 2005 2:04 am
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LM's recessive gene theory is also interesting.


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Riverthalos
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Posted: Wed 16 Mar , 2005 5:43 am
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Lord_Morningstar wrote:
TheLidlessEyes wrote:
If gay were hereditary, surely there would be hardly any left in the population by now.
My guess is that the gene would be recessive (ie: can be transmitted without causing an effect).
You're right - if a gay gene actually exists it would pretty much have to be recessive in order for the homosexual trait to remain in the population. Both parents would have to be carriers in order for the trait to be expressed, and, assuming inheritance is classically Mendelian with no epigenteic or environmental effects, even then the chances are 1/4. And that's assuming there's only one gene involved.

There have been some interesting experiments doen with fruit flies that show that homosexuality may have a genetic component, but I can't recall off the top of my head whether or not the genes found in the flies have human homologs. There have also been some interesting correlations found with womb environment and homosexuality in humans, as well as birth order and homosexuality in males, but again, it isn't conclusive and the latter two cases are epigenetic issues.

Long and short of it: I think some politician is trying to stir up a tempest in a teapot. I have no idea what he hopes to gain from it.

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Wed 16 Mar , 2005 7:03 am
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Lovely...I stand corrected. This is just a theory, right?

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MariaHobbit
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Posted: Wed 16 Mar , 2005 12:31 pm
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I doubt if it's a genetic thing at all. I suspect it's a rebirth thing. You know, a soul spends its last few lives as one sex and gets to prefer that gender, and all of a sudden gets assigned a body of the opposite sex-- well, that could be disorienting I imagine.

I figure homosexuality to be more of a rebellion. A sort of "Darn it! I wanted to be the other sex this time!" sort of reaction.

edit: A rebellion at the soul level, not in the conscious or subconscious mind. Certainly nothing that could be changed or controlled.

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Riverthalos
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Posted: Wed 16 Mar , 2005 3:14 pm
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I think you're getting homosexuality confused with being transgendered MH. No homosexual I know felt like they were a man in a woman's body or vice versa, but they did feel attracted to members of their own sex.

TED, the "gay gene" is less than a theory. It's still, IMHO, a hypothesis. And while I think that homosexuality is something you're born with, I would lay money on the trait being caused by something much more complicated than a single gene. THere's five gnees involved in eye color (which is how you can get so many shades between brown and blue). Why should human sexuality, which is much more complicated, be limited to one?

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Wilma
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Posted: Wed 16 Mar , 2005 3:17 pm
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This politician is a smart guy. I think that's all I can say right now. :shock:

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MariaHobbit
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Posted: Wed 16 Mar , 2005 3:47 pm
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Riverthalos wrote:
I think you're getting homosexuality confused with being transgendered MH. No homosexual I know felt like they were a man in a woman's body or vice versa, but they did feel attracted to members of their own sex.
I didn't mean to imply that! What I meant was that if you'd spent the past 4 or 5 lives being female and LIKED it, and all of a sudden got born male, then you might have had trouble dropping the habits of several lifetimes and might still be attracted to males, despite the most recent incarnation of gender.

I also wonder if the very masculine men have been male several times in a row, or if very feminine women have had several turns in a row as female. Or if women with non-feminine outlooks (like me) were male last time? And, of course, I wonder how the MBTI personality types tie into this whole rebirth thing, too! :D

So many questions--- so few reliable answers. *sigh*

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The Watcher
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Posted: Wed 16 Mar , 2005 4:05 pm
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As far as a gay gene existing, I agree that this would seem far too simplistic, it more likely is due to any number of factors coming together.

I know that one very important factor for male embryos and fetuses is how much exposure they get to maternal hormones, or if their own male hormones turn on at the usual time during development. I am not saying that this determines gay individuals either, but it may play a part.

I also feel it has an awful lot to do with individual temperment, perhaps socialization, for me it seems too complicated to just be able to point to one thing and state "this causes it." And, given its fairly common occurance, why should it even be viewed as something so different? It really is just a part of the entire person, not the only defining attribute.

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