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Bill to ban abortions of babies with "gay gene"

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MariaHobbit
Post subject: Bill to ban abortions of babies with "gay gene"
Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 3:34 pm
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There's this lawmaker in Maine who has proposed legislation banning abortions for babies found to have a "gay gene". The argument for this law being that if genome mapping gets to the point where one can determine if a fetus is gay before birth, then many parents would choose to abort the baby, making it a hate crime.

Now this whole thing has so many twists that it would tie a snake in knots! Bill O'Reilly has accused the lawmaker of using the gay side of the issue to defuse the normal knee-jerk reaction of most liberals concerning abortion, and that his real motive is just to get any sort of wedge in place in his state that would start to limit abortions.

In other words: Many liberals would balk at any legislation that would limit abortions, but this one is linked to gay rights, which most liberals also support, and the whole situation kind of starts to fry synapses when you start to think about it.

What was really funny, was that when O'Reilly accused the legislator of doing this, he refused to confirm or deny it!

So, do you think this legislator is REALLY concerned about the rights of gay fetuses of the future, or just wants to get started on anti-abortion laws however he can, or is just a publicity hound? Or is he just messing with people's minds for the fun of it? :D

And, of course, there IS no identifiable "gay gene" yet!

Here's an article but I couldn't find one from a mainstream news agency:

http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/news/ ... bill.shtml
Quote:
Critics: Gay-gene bill about politics, not rights


By MARK PETERS, Portland Press Herald Writer

Copyright © 2005 Blethen Maine Newspapers Inc.
E-mail this story to a friend

AUGUSTA — A conservative lawmaker is again drawing criticism for a bill he says is about gay rights but some of his colleagues say is about political posturing. State Rep. Brian Duprey, R-Hampden, wants the Legislature to forbid a woman from ending a pregnancy based on the projected sexual orientation of a fetus. He said the bill looks into the future in case scientists find what he described as a "homosexual gene."

"I have heard from women who told me that if they found out that they were carrying a child with the gay gene, then they would abort. I think this is wrong," said Duprey, who got the idea while listening to The Rush Limbaugh Show.

But some lawmakers say Duprey is neither interested in creating new policy to protect gays and lesbians nor seriously discussing the issue of abortion. The bill, they say, is a way of forcing some lawmakers to choose between abortion rights and gay rights.

"It will be seen as some kind of political gamesmanship," said House Majority Leader Glenn Cummings, D-Portland.

Duprey drew attention to the issue of gay rights last month. He proposed a bill to legalize same-sex marriages but opposed it himself. He said he put it forward after a constituent asked him to.

The Baldacci administration and gay rights advocates questioned Duprey's motivation. Advocates said the bill disrespected the legislative process and prevented them from having time to build support for the issue.

Legislative leaders at first were unsure what to make of Duprey's new bill, which Planned Parenthood of Northern New England believes has never been proposed in any state.

Senate Minority Leader Paul Davis, R-Sangerville, questioned the bill's premise. "You cannot test for it," he said.

After seeing the proposed legislation, Senate President Beth Edmonds, D-Freeport, and Cummings called Duprey's efforts disingenuous. They questioned why he has opposed gay rights legislation protecting adults while pushing for legislation protecting those not yet born.

"It is just something to get him press time. It is not a realistic proposal," Edmonds said.

Duprey conceded that scientists are still debating the relationship between genetics and sexual orientation. He believes they are not connected but fears if proven wrong the number of abortions in Maine will rise.

"Technology is changing every day. They could map the homosexual gene tomorrow," Duprey said.

Finding a gene that determines sexual orientation is a hotly debated issue. Sujatha Byravan, executive director of the Cambridge, Mass.-based Council for Responsible Genetics, said the issue continues to be controversial and has not been settled. She added that it is not at the forefront of current debate in the scientific community.

The issue of a so-called "gay gene" came up at the State House last fall when the head of the Christian Civic League of Maine issued a statement questioning whether Gov. John Baldacci had one. This was in response to the governor's support of bill that would prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation.

A spokesman for the governor's office said the administration will review Duprey's bill but declined to comment on it.

Duprey, who is a fervent opponent of abortion, said he believes support will grow for the measure, though he has no co-sponsors.

Duprey said the success of the bill will depend on its presentation to lawmakers. He sees it as a way to keep people from aborting children based on sexual orientation, basically a hate crime law for the unborn.

"I like to push the envelope. I have no problem with it," Duprey said.

Leaders in both parties, however, question whether the bill will attract support. Assistant House Minority Leader Joshua Tardy, R-Newport, said Republican leadership does not police what legislation representatives submit, but the proposal is not one of the caucus' priorities in the current session.

"He put it in. The caucus did not put it in," said Davis, the senate minority leader.

Equality Maine, an advocacy group for gays and lesbians, is still reviewing the bill.

Lisa Roche, executive director of the Maine Right to Life Committee, said her group is concentrating on tightening state reporting requirements around abortion. Duprey's bill, she said, is a distraction that could cast a negative light on those pushing for real reforms.

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Axordil
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Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 3:36 pm
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Here's the other problem: it implicitly labels being gay as a disability to be tested for prenatally.

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yovargas
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Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 3:48 pm
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Quick note: I hate the idea behind "hate crimes" and strongly oppose any support for such a notion. A crime is a crime whether it is hateful or not.


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Axordil
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Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 3:50 pm
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yo--

I agree when it comes to individual crimes. I do think it is possible for conspiracy-related crimes involving planning to have an element of focus on minorities of any sort that deserves extra punishment, simply to help attack the groups that do this.

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 3:54 pm
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Abortion is already under major scrutiny in this country. This is just undue stress on the issue. If abortion is bad, it's bad. It doesn't matter if its a gay baby or a straight one.

Plus. which one is the gay gene? I would guess it's the more fabulously dressed one.

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Lidless
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Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 4:02 pm
Als u het leven te ernstig neemt, mist u de betekenis.
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If gay were hereditary, surely there would be hardly any left in the population by now.

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yovargas
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Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 4:16 pm
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TheLidlessEyes wrote:
If gay were hereditary, surely there would be hardly any left in the population by now.
As one whose life experience leads him to believe that he's been gay his whole life, I'd say this is a fascinating subject to me because...well, I agree with you.
Ax wrote:
I do think it is possible for conspiracy-related crimes involving planning to have an element of focus on minorities of any sort that deserves extra punishment, simply to help attack the groups that do this.
So you think killing 100 people at random deserves less punishment then killing 100 Jews, for example? (Theoretical question, obviously, since both crimes would receive the maximum possible punishment under the law).
Quote:
Plus. which one is the gay gene?
I saw some advertisements once for assless genes that looked pretty gay...


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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 4:43 pm
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I see the reasons why people have pushed for hate crime legislation, but yes, killing 100 people is just as bad as killing 100 Jews. Perhaps the second is more severely punished because we don't want to see a second "holocaust" of sorts.

I wonder how the conservative christian community would respond to an article like this. Specifically, I'm talking about people like Tuor...or REL.
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I saw some advertisements once for assless genes that looked pretty gay...
Can we use that as one standard? Okay, from now on any assless genes are gay. *Checks gene pool*

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Axordil
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Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 5:19 pm
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yo--

For the killing, no. Murder is murder. For planning the killing--conspiracy to commit a felony based on someone's ethnicity, religion, et al--yes.

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Whistler
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Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 5:56 pm
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Since TED has asked...

I am (as far as I can tell) the board’s only Christian conservative, and I will say flatly that this whole notion is monstrous to me, and would be so to every Christian in my acquaintance. I object to abortion as a means of birth control, and certainly I object to it as a means of culling out types that are judged defective or otherwise undesirable by society, by religion, or by their parents. And the whole discussion is silly to begin with, as no “gay gene” has been found. Nor, I think, is one likely to be.

Having promised myself never to become involved in Manwe-style discussions, I have now mentioned the two hottest topics of our day.

Somebody shoot me before I do this again.


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Lidless
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Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 6:03 pm
Als u het leven te ernstig neemt, mist u de betekenis.
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*cocks hammer*

*gets arrested*

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The Watcher
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Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 6:09 pm
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Maybe we should get back to the REAL issue at hand. Why are legislators of any persuasion now looking into passing ludicrous laws based on "what if"? There is no "gay gene" anymore than there is one that says you will go through a divorce in your life, or that you will inherit lots of money from your grandparents. What is next, laws that anticipate and ban "alien sexual experiments"? Why do people go off onto such wild tangents here?

Personally, I think that prospective parents who are going to be so particular about their offspring should not be parents to begin with. How about a law that addresses this?

:rage:

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Axordil
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Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 6:15 pm
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Oooh, the REAL third rail of American politics...demanding that people have the sense God gave a goldfish... :Q

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Whistler
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Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 6:16 pm
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It's probably just as well that legislators are wasting their time with foolishness.

It's when they do real work that they get us into trouble.


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Axordil
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Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 6:19 pm
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You're channeling Mr. Clemens, again, Whistler. :D

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Sunsilver
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Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 6:56 pm
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The Watcher wrote:
Personally, I think that prospective parents who are going to be so particular about their offspring should not be parents to begin with. How about a law that addresses this?

:rage:
Amen, brother, AMEN!! There's hardly a nurse alive (especially E.R. nurses) who hasn't wished that the government required people to have a license to breed. Meaning, of course that they first have to pass some sort of basic parenting competency test.

In Toronto not too long ago, a 17 year old homeless unwed mother was released from hospital with her premature baby, into the care of a hostel. She then let the baby starve to death. She conned the hostel workers by telling them the baby was doing 'just fine', and not letting them get too close a look at it.

This subspecies of a human being also has another child. Fortunately, the government had the sense to put that one in foster care.

Makes you think they had the right idea back when I was born....children having children were not considered mature enough to raise them, and the kids were put up for adoption.

Edit: I agree with those who say that there is no such thing as a 'gay' gene. It just does not make evolutionary sense. And what most people think is homosexual behaviour in other animals is DOMINANCE behaviour: you're lower in the pecking order than me, so I'm going to treat you like a female....

I don't pretend to understand what 'causes' homosexuality, but the one gay friend I have was sexually abused by both her father and her brother, and that experience, needless to say, shaped her choice of lifestye. She did date men while in University (ironically enough, we were both after the same guy at one point!) but she never recovered enough from her earlier experience to be comfortable with the male sex.

So, nature or nurture...or some of each?

Hmmm....interesting topic for a thread...(in the Thinking of England forum, of course!) :devil:

Whistler, we'll let you give this discussion a miss... :D

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Angbasdil
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Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 10:15 pm
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I'm a progressive Christian, so I'm against abortion and for gay rights. But mostly I'm against the simplistic "Liberal versus Conservative" mindset that so pervades American politics these days. I don't fit neatly into either camp.

With that in mind, I think I like this Rep. Duprey. What a great way to piss off both sides at once! Maybe some of them will even have to break out of their narow-minded talking points mindset and actually think for a change.

Naw. No chance of that. :neutral:

But I'm also a fan of irony, so there's another reason to like the guy.

And as a former Evil Genius, I definitely gotta give the guy his props.


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The Watcher
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Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 10:33 pm
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Sunsilver -

I think that the answers are far too complicated to be discovered. It would be like asking why some of us seemingly self destruct our own lives, when if you flip the lens around, we are just doing what we feel is best to achieve what we find worthwhile. Note: the "we" mentioned here in no way applies to anyone, just a better way to make my point.

The analogy comes to mind of the unknown and starving artist, who is told by his/her parents that what they are pursuing is without merit. It is so easy to state what is not normal for me and then extrapolate it onto someone else. The honest truth be known, we do NOT know what makes most of us into what we are. For every prediction, there are always the exceptions, and I for one am tired of trying to peg everyone into their little square box with the appropriate little square peg that goes along with it. We are far too complex for that, and it only makes things worse when the general trend is found and that all of a sudden becomes a seemingly universal standard.

There is no way to predict what the future holds for any genetic blueprint. Those who try to do so are only presuming a great deal onto what genes alone might determine.

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MariaHobbit
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Posted: Fri 11 Mar , 2005 10:34 pm
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Angbasdil,
On the interview I saw, Duprey actually blushed pink when he was accused of using the gay angle to slip the anti-abortion thing through.

What that means, I don't know. But it is refreshing to see a politician who can still blush!

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Lord_Morningstar
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 12:26 am
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TheLidlessEyes wrote:
If gay were hereditary, surely there would be hardly any left in the population by now.
My guess is that the gene would be recessive (ie: can be transmitted without causing an effect).


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