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Religious Beliefs

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What are your Religious Beliefs
Conservative Christian
  
12% [ 6 ]
Liberal Christian
  
18% [ 9 ]
Hindu
  
0% [ 0 ]
Buddhist
  
0% [ 0 ]
Sikh
  
0% [ 0 ]
Islamic
  
0% [ 0 ]
Jewish
  
6% [ 3 ]
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist
  
50% [ 25 ]
Other (please clarify)
  
14% [ 7 ]
Total votes: 50
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Eltirwen
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Posted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 12:43 am
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Liberal christian, alone in a sea of conservatives. No, really. I was a new Christian when I signed up to go to this college, and now that I'm nearly done I'm still glad I went here, but my beliefs don't quite fit in here. I like what Jewelsong said about it - I follow Christ alone.

The scary thing is, the people who seem to share my beliefs the most are the religion professors. They're a lot more liberal than others here. Most people just don't want to challenge anything they've grown up believing.

And as for the predominance of the catchall nonbelieving category, it really is quite broad.


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The Watcher
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Posted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 12:50 am
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Ahhh, but how many here have actually answered the poll?

I think that the "Other" category contains quite a few who empathize or sympathize with Christian beliefs, in that they were once participating in a Christian based faith, and still find much of value in some of the Christian tenets.

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jewelsong
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Posted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 1:00 am
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Ethel wrote:
jewelsong wrote:
I cannot prove the existence of God...or a higher power. But I am certain of it, nevertheless. It sings through my soul.
Ah, see, that's what I don't understand, though it sounds wonderful. It's like I'm missing the gene for it or something.
I don't know how to describe it. I certainly don't have a "picture" of God in my head, or think of God as a person at all. It's more a sense of knowing that I belong to something much greater than myself and that there is a larger presence that somehow is invested in my own insignificant life. That we (humanity) have the potential to be so much more than we are...and even though we continue to fail miserably at it, we keep getting another chance.

I follow the teachings of Jesus because His life and Way seem closest to my heart...and are simple to follow, as long as I don't try to muck it up with my own prejudices and analysis. He speaks clearly to me.

I have also felt this presence both in times of great sorrow and in times of great joy. It's a matter of being open to feeling it...of "waiting in joyful expectation upon the Lord" as the Quakers say. In this go-go-go world, that is sometimes difficult to do.


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yovargas
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Posted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 1:18 am
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jewelsong wrote:
Ethel wrote:
jewelsong wrote:
I cannot prove the existence of God...or a higher power. But I am certain of it, nevertheless. It sings through my soul.
Ah, see, that's what I don't understand, though it sounds wonderful. It's like I'm missing the gene for it or something.
I don't know how to describe it. I certainly don't have a "picture" of God in my head, or think of God as a person at all. It's more a sense of knowing that I belong to something much greater than myself and that there is a larger presence that somehow is invested in my own insignificant life. That we (humanity) have the potential to be so much more than we are...and even though we continue to fail miserably at it, we keep getting another chance.
:) Have you taken a look at the MBTI thread? David Kiersey (the man who popularized this personality typing) says that it is very common for NF types to simply have a natural sense that they "belong to something much greater than myself". Though I think nearly everyone is nearly capable of becoming attuned to that, it seems that to the NFs (which he terms "Idealists) this sense is often innate. Quite lovely, I have grown to think. :)


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jewelsong
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Posted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 2:08 am
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Interesting. I am an INFJ. But my belief was not also so innate...I have had my struggles. I find, though, that my faith and surety have grown stronger as I have become older.


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Sunsilver
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Posted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 4:00 am
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I, too, feel the need to qualify my choice of 'liberal Christian'.

I was raised in the Anglican church, which is one of the more conservative denominations, and very like the Catholic, as it was one of the first to split with that church.

However (and this is a BIG however!) I am a Charismatic Anglican. We are a rather rare breed. We speak in tongues (see the book of Acts, Chapter 2 to learn what this is all about.) We also believe in the power of the Holy Spirit to heal, to prophesy and work miracles. No one can convince me this does not happen. I have seen it and experienced it first hand.

Okay, going to dig myself even deeper here..... :D


I have currently stopped going to the Anglican church, and may not return. My reasons for stopping had to do with what the priest of the church I was attending did to some friends of mine. My reasons for not returning have more to do with the issue of gay marriage. The Canadian and U.S. Anglican churches have been kicked out of the world wide Anglican communion for approving the marriage and ordination of gays.

Let me qualify: I am not anti-gay. I have had gay friends in the past. I have worked with many gays (I think over half the gardening staff I worked with one summer was gay.) I've never have a problem with those I've met. There are, however, certain aspects of gay culture that I don't like or approve of, such as rampant promiscuity and the whole leather/S&M/bondage thing. That exists in the heterosexual world, too, it just seems to be more prevalent in gay circles.

However, I very strongly believe that marriage is a sacrement of the church. It should be between one man and one woman, as God intended. There is already legislation in place for gays to have common-law unions, which are regarded to be the same from a legal standpoint (as far as I know) as heterosexual common law unions.

Fine, let gays live together, have partners, husbands/wives, whatever you want to call it. Just one thing I would ask: PLEASE, don't call it marriage!

Okay, I'm in enough hot water already. Don't expect me to tackle the issue of ordination of gay priests! I DO NOT want to go there! :D

Whew. How's that for a thread derailment! :devil:

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Dindraug
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Posted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 8:16 am
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The Watcher wrote:
Ahhh, but how many here have actually answered the poll?

I think that the "Other" category contains quite a few who empathize or sympathize with Christian beliefs, in that they were once participating in a Christian based faith, and still find much of value in some of the Christian tenets.
Quite true. I was raised in a Christian (ok, Methodist) enviroment, but not as a church user. I am quite happy with the ethics and morality of Christianity (for the most part) but I have no doubt that it is from man not devinly sanctioned.
Similarly, I am quite happy with the concept and the existance of God, but I cannot agree that the Bible is the way to it, or any of the other book religions.

I am far happier with the pantheistic approach or event greater spritiual approach of the shamen or spiritualist (or occultist :Q ) than with the One God, One book, One faith approach of the major religions. I did spend a lot of time lookig for the truth in it, on both a personal and spiritual level, but could not belive in it.

I guess I would fall into the other catagory in this poll but not haoppy to put myself in there.

Quote:
Any theory on why the so-called "Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist" is dominating this poll?
Jon was right, we are evil and all going to Hull with the other evil folks ;)

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jewelsong
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Posted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 11:13 am
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Sunsilver wrote:
However, I very strongly believe that marriage is a sacrement of the church.
Sunsilver, I am curious. Do you believe that marriages should only take place through a church? And if so, what should those who do not belong to a church or subscribe to a religion do? Should they not be allowed to marry?

I don't know what country you live in. In the USA, marriage was first and foremost a legal contract. The church (any church) came into it later and for a while, some church marriages were not considered legal...you had to be married before a judge for that. Quaker marriage was not legal for a long time, for instance.

Any church is free to marry or not marry anyone they please, according to the tenets of the particular faith. Civil marriage is different...it is a right for all. I have a number of friends who choose to be married by a Justice of the Peace and not in a religious ceremony. It seems that you are saying that this should not be allowed.


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Lord_Morningstar
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Posted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 11:36 am
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Quote:
Any theory on why the so-called "Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist" is dominating this poll?
Because of the group that we have invited here. Christians were very common in Manwe, and the largest group, but many of the Manwe Christians were 'junior' members who haven't been invited here.


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yovargas
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Posted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 12:48 pm
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Uh oh. Looks like someone is begging for our very first 'gay marrige' thread! A true Manwe classic. For a long time it seemed like we couldn't go a week without someone starting or bumping a gay marriage thread. I think it kinda stopped because the Manweistas eventually just got tired of rehashing it. But now we've got a new group of people so it's perhaps time to start it up again. Since Sunsilver was the first to bring it up, I think he should be the one to start t thread on it. :D


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Rodia
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Posted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 1:04 pm
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Well...I still don't know what to choose. I am Catholic...and follow many of the rules (or at least try to). No meat on Fridays, premarital chastity etc. However, I will use birth control once I start having sex, and I do not believe all sex out of wedlock is a sin, including homosexual sex. There are many times when I need to work things out for myself, and the conclusions I come to are not always in line with what my Church says.

Sometimes this troubles me. I think, if I chose a faith, why am I picky? Where is my faith if I only accept what's convenient? The whole idea is to accept God's Law...and the way my Church interprets it, yes. I may not agree with a priest but at least if the Pope says something, shouldn't I shut up and listen, regardless of how inconvenient his teaching is to my own pleasure?

My parents have not had a church wedding- my father is a divorcee. My mother believes herself an adulteress, and for years she took no communion, because she could not be absolved until she stopped having sex with my father. This seems ridiculous, and yet isn't it a lesson in humility? I believe God understands their love and does not consider it a sin. But who am I to base my actions on assumptions about what God believes?

But I do my best. And most of all I believe in the love God gives me, and how coupled with the mind I have, it can find many solutions that are not put down in scriptures or dogmas. In the end, as Jewelsong said, his message is simple.

All you need is love. :D

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jewelsong
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Posted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 1:17 pm
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Rodia wrote:
In the end, as Jewelsong said, his message is simple.

All you need is love. :D
OMG, I knew it! The Beatles were Jesus!


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Rodia
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:LMAO:

I loved the bit in 'Michael' when John Travolta says 'Remember what John and Paul said?' and the other guy asks 'The apostles?' and he says, no, the Beatles...

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Sunsilver
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Posted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 2:32 pm
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jewelsong wrote:
Sunsilver wrote:
However, I very strongly believe that marriage is a sacrement of the church.
Sunsilver, I am curious. Do you believe that marriages should only take place through a church? And if so, what should those who do not belong to a church or subscribe to a religion do? Should they not be allowed to marry?

I don't know what country you live in. In the USA, marriage was first and foremost a legal contract. The church (any church) came into it later and for a while, some church marriages were not considered legal...you had to be married before a judge for that. Quaker marriage was not legal for a long time, for instance.

Any church is free to marry or not marry anyone they please, according to the tenets of the particular faith. Civil marriage is different...it is a right for all. I have a number of friends who choose to be married by a Justice of the Peace and not in a religious ceremony. It seems that you are saying that this should not be allowed.
No, Jewelsong, that's not quite what I'm saying. Of course, non-Christians can marry in whatever way they wish to, under Canadian law.

What I am saying is I would like to see gay unions remain under the laws governing common law relationships. This is BECAUSE marriage is regarded as a sacrement in the church, and I DON'T CARE WHAT THE GOVERNMENT SAYS ABOUT RELIGIOUS EXEMPTIONS!! If the government legalizes gay marriage (and Ontario has already done so) I forsee that the churches will either sanction it, or be forced to accept it. This is the steep, slippery slope we are already heading down....see what else I said in my post regarding the North American Anglican Church, which has already sanctioned gay marriage.

Legalising gay unions will require the government to rewrite the definition of marriage, and this is the issue at stake right now. The last I heard, the government was still trying to decide whether they were able to do this.

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Just remember in the winter far beneath the bitter snows,
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Axordil
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Posted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 2:38 pm
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Philosophically, I am closest to Unitarians and liberal Quakers. Theologically, I am pagan, that is, I believe in the essential duality of the divine as expressed in a Mother and Father, whose existence is reflected in the cycles of the world, or perhaps the other way around. :D

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Rodia
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Enlightening read about gay marriage...

I think every two people who share a bond ought to be able to legalise it. Whether gay or straight or just two friends who want to make their life easier. A 'Pact of Friendship' my friend calls it, and it wouldn't be a 'poor man's marriage' but something available to all kinds of couples.

But I think that an effort should be made for it to be entirely separate from the definition of marriage that has roots in the church sacrament. Or what Sunny said...she says it better.

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Axordil
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Posted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 2:59 pm
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The fact that, in most Western countries, a marriage can be performed by a functionary of the court (judge, jp, even attorneys in some US states) tells me that there is a legal function separate from any religious function. Whether any given church recognizes a wedding is not as important to me as whether the state does, since the latter is the one that determines things like inheritances, benefits, child custody, et al.

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vison
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Posted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 5:05 pm
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We do need a gay marriage thread.

Go for it, yovargas.


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jewelsong
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Posted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 5:35 pm
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Sunsilver wrote:
If the government legalizes gay marriage (and Ontario has already done so) I forsee that the churches will either sanction it, or be forced to accept it. This is the steep, slippery slope we are already heading down....
Now, I really disagree with this premise. The Roman Catholic church still will not marry couples if one person has been divorced and for a long time, would not marry a couple unless they were both Catholic. They have not been "forced to accept" anything different, even though such couples can easily marry in another faith or in a Judge's office. Other religions have their own stipulations about marriage as well and they have not changed due to government legalities.

Sure, some churches will sanction marriage between two people of the same gender. Others will not. It will be up to the couple to decide where to have their ceremony. I don't really see a "slipperly slope" here in regards to religious beliefs.

Separation of church and state. Civil marriage is a contract. Marriage within a particular church or faith is whatever that faith defines it to be. By the way, there are only two sacraments in the Protestant church and marriage isn't one of them.


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Whistler
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Posted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 5:43 pm
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So far, precisely three people have declared themselves conservative Christians, and elsewhere on the board the secularist branch is expressing fears of being overwhelmed.

The gay marriage thread is down the hall, just past the Coke machine.


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