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Religious Beliefs

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What are your Religious Beliefs
Conservative Christian
  
12% [ 6 ]
Liberal Christian
  
18% [ 9 ]
Hindu
  
0% [ 0 ]
Buddhist
  
0% [ 0 ]
Sikh
  
0% [ 0 ]
Islamic
  
0% [ 0 ]
Jewish
  
6% [ 3 ]
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist
  
50% [ 25 ]
Other (please clarify)
  
14% [ 7 ]
Total votes: 50
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Alatar
Post subject: Religious Beliefs
Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 4:31 pm
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Well, there were a lot of questions about this in one of the other threads so since it has garnered so much interest I thought I'd post a poll. Please fill in the details on any options I've missed! I've tried to concentrate on the larger religions. Church of Scientology for example could be categorised as either Nonreligious or Other. Please use your own discretion. If you want to qualify your vote with an explanation please do so.

Cheers,
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Alatar
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 4:36 pm
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I'll put myself down as mainstream Christian although I do not share many of the beliefs. That said I try to follow the teachings of Christ and I believe it is a good church and system of beliefs in which to raise children. I like the values that it espouses and although I have a problem with many of the churches teachings I expect my children to discover those faults and failings on their own.

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Meneltarma
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 5:12 pm
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Nonreligious.

I usually classify myself as an atheist, as I really do not believe in any form of god and 'agnostic' sounds very wishy-washy.:P
But god and religion really isn't something I think about, the existence or non-existence of God doesn't affect the way I run my life.


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Rodia
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 5:15 pm
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Er...gonna sound stupid now...what do Christian Fundamentalist and Mainstream Christian mean exactly? I'm a Catholic...

:oops:

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jewelsong
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 5:38 pm
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Alatar wrote:
I try to follow the teachings of Christ...
I'm with Alatar on this one. I identify myself as a Christian, basically because I think Jesus was right...even though we (as in humanity) persist in twisting His message to our own ends and trying to find ways to have ourselves and our own beliefs be "better" than anyone else's.

I sometimes picture Jesus banging His head against some eternal brick wall. I mean, He tried so hard to make the message simple and straight-forward. Someone is hungry? Feed him. Someone is lonely? Visit her. Someone is cold? Give him a blanket. Someone is sick? Help her. By doing these things for each other, you follow the two greatest commandents of all...loving each other and loving God.

I mean, honestly, how much simpler could He make it for us? And He didn't specify the qualities of who should be helped and who should not. In fact, He said numerous times that we are not to judge others...basically because we suck so much ourselves that we have no right to point out anyone else's faults.

Jesus is my example; the one whose words I try to follow.


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Whistler
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 5:52 pm
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The effort is appreciated, Alatar.

I am what I suppose what would be termed an evangelical, though I personally detest these pigeonhole terms, as they are not Biblical and often (usually) lead to gross misunderstandings. The term "fundamentalist" is usually used pejoratively among those outside Christianity (fundamentalist = ignorant, hypocritical bigot) and it is NOT the same thing as evangelical. Yet I will chose your first category because it is probably the name an outsider would apply to me, although I fear that people will draw many altogether wrong conclusions from my having done so.

And no, I will not describe the differences between the two camps for fear of throwing the thread hopelessly off-track, and for fear of needlessly causing confusion or offense.

There is nothing simpler than Christianity. It appalls me to see that these divisions exist at all, and that in order to be understood I must play the silly game of embracing them. Still...if I were forced to choose a descriptive term, it would be simply "non-denominational Christian." And I would add that the numbers of these are so great as to make them very much "mainstream Christian."

Last edited by Whistler on Sat 12 Mar , 2005 8:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Estel
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 6:08 pm
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I'm not a Christian. I don't follow any religion. I suppose I'm agnostic, but it's not even that. I have the hardest time explaining this to people who are worried about / obsessed with / find more importance in what happens after you die.


Basically, I don't care. I'm not worried about "being saved," going to heaven, going to hell, not going anywhere.

I don't care where I came from - reincarnation, living one life on earth before going on, etc etc etc.

The way I live and believe is simply this:

The people who matter are alive on this earth this very moment. My job, as a human being, is to show as much love and to be as good as I can to all people. To show as much respect and compassion as I can to all people. To have enough strength to help a person when they're down, and to take responsibility for my actions when it is my actions that have put them down. To be generous to those that have less than I do. To be generous to those who have more than I do. To realize that a kind word and a smile can change a persons day for the better. To realize that a hug, a phone call, a visit can change a persons life for the better.

I believe that people are inherently good, respectful, kind and loving and if you give them a chance to show that to you, they will. I also believe that I have to be all those things for myself, even when, and especially when I fail. My "religion," if I must have one, is not a faith in God, but a faith in mankind. Am I disappointed? Often. Am I given joy? More often.


The reason I don't care what happened "before I was born" or what will happen "after I die," is that I have this life right now, and it is now that I can make the biggest difference for myself and for others.

The reason I don't "believe in God" isn't that I don't believe there is a god, but rather, that I see divinity in the people of the world every day. Why should I look for it elsewhere when it is so incredibly beautiful where it is already.


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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 7:06 pm
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Agnostic here. I'm atheistic enough that I don't follow a god, but I don't think god exists or doesn't exist. I used to be atheist because I thought the idea of god was silly and illogical, then I realized that if I won't say that god exists, why am I so quick to assume it doesn't.

I used to follow christianity (catholicism then lutheranism), but I just didn't really believe it all. I tried to believe. I ended up pretending and that's not fair to those who do believe.

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Lord_Morningstar
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 8:20 pm
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Personally, I think Catholic and Protestant might have been more helpful divisions for the Christian category. Still, that's bye the bye.

I'm an atheist btw, a position reached through reasoning.


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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 8:37 pm
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I put Other. I will explain if and when I figure out exactly what it is that I believe. Certainly the "faithful" part of my name is not one that is chosen arbitrarily.

I think if there had been an "all of the above" choice that might have been the one I would have chosen.

Whistler, I share your disdain for the use of labels. I have encountered people labelled as "fundamentalist Christians" who were indeed very ignorant (or so they appeared to me). I have also encountered people labelled as "atheists" who were equally ignorant. Certainly you are a perfect example of why labels are so distorting, as you are the very antithesis of the stereotype of the fundamentalist, evangelical Christian that many people believe in. One of the great things that a community like this can do is to help break down those stereotypes. :)


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Alatar
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 9:30 pm
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My apologies. I had no intention of insulting anyone with the options. I simply felt that given the predominance of Christianity as a religion there was reason to split it further. Catholic vs Protestant is for me a very small difference as they are in most ways the same faith. The differences are (to my mind) fairly cosmetic. The real division that I sould see is in Mainstream Christianity and Fundamentalist Christianity. Mainstream Christians tend to follow the teachings of Christ in a much more "take the bits I like" approach. They use birth control, have sex before marriage, eat meat on Fridays and in general have a much more lackadaisical approach to their faith than most other religions. Fundamental Christians, to my mind, try to follow the spirit and letter of the law. That was the distinction I was making and I hope it is not offensive. If required I can edit the poll?

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Whistler
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 9:46 pm
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Alatar, I sympathize entirely with you! I recognize the impossibility of the task you have attempted; such a poll could not be devised in such a way as to please everybody.

I am satisfied with the poll as it stands, given the fact that everyone is allowed to qualify and explain his vote to clear up any possible misunderstandings.


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The Watcher
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 9:56 pm
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I chose Atheist/Agnostic, although it would actually be more humanistic Deist. I do believe that there is order and purpose in the universe, and as we are part of that universe, that order and purpose is within us, but I no longer believe in a "hands on" deity, although I do believe that there is something out there that we call "divine" for lack of a better term.

It is difficult for me to put exactly what I feel into words, I certainly admire the tenets of many religions, and feel that in recognizing valid ways for humanity to act and behave, as well as with teaching morals and ethics that many religions are doing something very positive.

My only pet peeve or complaint with so many religions is that they mostly all claim to have a monopoly on TRUTH. Maybe one of them does, I certainly do not claim to know otherwise, I just find it unlikely.

For those of you who do find comfort in your particular chosen faith, please do not be offended by my words, they are not meant to be a criticism, just my own personal belief system.

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Impenitent
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 9:58 pm
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May I ask what the motivation for this was? (I hasten to add I don't suspect nefarious reasons).

I'm finding it impossible to settle on one poll option.

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Whistler
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 10:03 pm
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Impenitent, I think this poll is being conducted at my suggestion.

And indeed my intentions were (as always) quite honorable! :)


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halplm
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 10:18 pm
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I chose the same as Whistler, for the same reasons, and especially after reading Alatar's definition of "mainstream Christian."

With that definition, though, I would imagine the number of "fundamentalist" christians would be WAY larger than the typical definition would allow for.

I mean, that kind of separation is the kind that was shouted about a lot after the election... you know, where everyone started saying "Christian" with a kind of sneer...

Sorry, don't mean to get off topic. To me, the "mainstream" group you describe, Alatar, are the people that answer "Christian" in a poll like this, but aren't really very religious.

But, then again, maybe I just have a warped view of it :)

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Lord_Morningstar
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 10:27 pm
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Alatar wrote:
My apologies. I had no intention of insulting anyone with the options. I simply felt that given the predominance of Christianity as a religion there was reason to split it further. Catholic vs Protestant is for me a very small difference as they are in most ways the same faith. The differences are (to my mind) fairly cosmetic. The real division that I sould see is in Mainstream Christianity and Fundamentalist Christianity. Mainstream Christians tend to follow the teachings of Christ in a much more "take the bits I like" approach. They use birth control, have sex before marriage, eat meat on Fridays and in general have a much more lackadaisical approach to their faith than most other religions. Fundamental Christians, to my mind, try to follow the spirit and letter of the law. That was the distinction I was making and I hope it is not offensive. If required I can edit the poll?
On second thoughts, you’re actually right; a liberal Anglican and a fundamentalist southern Baptist are both Protestant Christians, and yet their beliefs are very different, and more different than those of a liberal Anglican and Catholic. My only suggestion would be to not use the words ‘mainstream’ and ‘fundamentalist’; ‘liberal’ and ‘conservative’ might be a bit better. The term fundamentalist isn’t really used in a positive way, and it can only be applied to Protestants; a Catholic possessing very traditionalist views would not really be a fundamentalist, even though they would be closer to the Baptist than the Anglican.


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jewelsong
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 10:32 pm
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Alatar wrote:
Mainstream Christians tend to follow the teachings of Christ in a much more "take the bits I like" approach. They use birth control, have sex before marriage, eat meat on Fridays and in general have a much more lackadaisical approach to their faith than most other religions. Fundamental Christians, to my mind, try to follow the spirit and letter of the law.
Wow. That's not how I interpret the two at all...at least, not for me. I don't think I have a "lackadaisacal" approach to my faith! I do try to follow the spirit and letter of Christ's teachings, as I said in my earlier post. As far as I know, He said nothing about birth control, eating meat on Fridays or even sex before marriage.

Not eating meat on Fridays is a peculiarly Catholic habit (it's to commemorate Good Friday...a kind of mini-Lent) as well as not using birth control. So maybe you are thinking of the differences between Catholics and Protestants after all.

In my mind, a Fundamentalist (in any faith!) is someone who basically believes that anyone who doesn't subscribe to his/her particular set of beliefs is going to Hell and should be either converted or persecuted or both. Fundamentalists also tend to take their Scripture literally, without any thought to interpretation or context.

Although Cathlics and Protestants are obstensibly the same faith, there are many differences in how the faith is practiced.

Roman Catholicism split into two after the Reformation and Martin Luther's 95 Thesis in the 1500's. Thus Protestantism (as in "to protest") was born, with the Lutheran Church. Since then, there have been further spilts into at least 12 main denominations and innumerable off-shoots of those.

Not being an expert theologian, the best I can say is that Catholicism seems to be based on guilt and fear of what might happen to you if you sin. Protestantism is less about sin and more about redemption. Hence, the differences in the cross, the most common symbol: Catholics have a Crucifix with a dying Jesus on it to remind you of His suffering for your sin; Protestants have an empty cross to remind you of His power of redemption.

If this turns into an over-all religious discussion, I'll be back.

If not, maybe I'll start one. That old saying about never discussing religion or politics is for wusses. :D


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Impenitent
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 10:44 pm
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Whistler :) your honour is beyond doubt.

Well, I chose Jewish, but not because I'm a believer. More due to my own sense of honour - not letting the side down.

I grew up in a non-observant household, both parents nominally Greek Orthodox (in their generation there was no choice about it; born Greek, then you're Greek Orthodox). I don't recall ever going to church.

As a youngster, I was very curious about this religion thing and found my own way to a Sunday School (I can't remember what denomination). My mother let me go my own way. I didn't find anything of value to me there and as I got older I went to a series of various churches for short periods. Never stayed.

Then, in my late teens my best friend, who was Jewish (he still is, but he's no longer my 'best' friend) drew me into his circle. I felt at home; I investigated, I explored, I researched - I found an intellectual and cultural niche that fit me. So, in my mid 20's I converted to Judaism - Progressive not orthodox.

It still fits me; I can stand by the principles and the abiding sense of tolerance. And I have come to terms with my non-belief (that is, I acknowledge that god may exist, but I don't know) and that non-belief can be accommodated within Progressive Judaism - that how you live is more important that what you believe; that living by principles and conscience will get you through.

I am also very attracted to Buddhism, Sikh and Ba'ahi philosophies; I'm abit of jumbled mess really. P'raps I'm actually a pagan - supporting many gods and many ways of living.

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Lord_Morningstar
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Posted: Sat 12 Mar , 2005 11:02 pm
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Of course, we’re limited by our sample size here, but ideally we’d have ‘Liberal Protestant Christian’, ‘Conservative Protestant Christian’ and ‘Catholic Christian’. For the numbers we’re dealing with, I think 2 Christian categories are enough though.


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