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Blasphemy?
I am a Christian - Yes 6%  6%  [ 2 ]
I am a Christian - No 31%  31%  [ 11 ]
I am a Christian - Undecided 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
I am not a Christian - Yes 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
I am not a Christian - No 64%  64%  [ 23 ]
I am not a Christian - Undecided 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 36
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PostPosted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 3:32 am 
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One cannot blaspheme a painting unless one regards the painting as holy in itself, which would be idolatrous to Christians.

This is not to say that I regard the picture as anything but revolting...not because it mocks the substance of my faith, but because it simply dismisses it as something cheap, useful only for padding some fool's pocket.

As Prim has stated, the offense here lies not in insult but in trivialization. And from a Christian point of view, the latter is in many ways the greater offense.


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PostPosted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 3:33 am 
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What Dave_LF said! 100%!

But there's an option missing in the poll: "I am offended by something else entirely."

Quote:
It is a way of showing the place of women in society today


Excuse me?

:roll:

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PostPosted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 4:25 am 
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In a way it's kind of an interesting picture. It has a way of making your eyes constantly move.

I don't think it's blasphemy at all...people are getting too riled up about it. I do think it's in poor taste though.

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PostPosted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 4:32 am 
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Eruname, the quality of the composition is beyond question!

But for that we can thank Leonardo da Vinci far more than the photographer.


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PostPosted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 4:39 am 
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It's not blasphemy, I don't think.

I'm far more upset by the fashion industry associating itself with a master like Da Vinci than with any religious connotation. Ditto what Sunsilver said. :rage:

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PostPosted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 4:57 am 
Islanded in a Stream of Stars
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I stand corrected Whistler.

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PostPosted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 5:01 am 
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Not at all, Eruname. Just another of my efforts to guide you through the sometimes bewildering corridors of fine art.


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PostPosted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 12:58 pm 
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An insult to Leonardo - yes.

Does it make me want to hurl over the fashion industry - yes.

Blasphemy - no.

Christian here. :)

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PostPosted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 1:38 pm 
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It bothers me. It borders on blasphemy, but that's not the problem. I can't demand that other people recognise the significance of Jesus. I can demand that they recognise my sensitivity to the matter.

Well, I can't demand anything. But it makes me feel uncomfortable... is that so unpredictable? The ad people are deliberately ignoring that a lot of people will be bothered by this. That's insensitive. Remember those Benneton ads that showed a man dying of AIDS? Same principle. They knew it would shock people. And I don't see anything good coming out of this- some shocks are needed to make people think. This is just making money off a shock.

I think it's horrible.

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PostPosted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 1:56 pm 
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To the people who are bothered by this, are you similarly bothered by movies such as (Mel Brook's) A History of the Wolrd or (Monty Python's) Life of Brian?


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PostPosted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 2:00 pm 
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Yes. But I recognise both of these movies as attempts at comedy, and can enjoy them even though some moments are not easy to watch without wincing... You tell me a joke about nuns and priests and I'll laugh. You try to make that joke sell clothes...for me the difference is clear...I'm not sure I can explain it...

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PostPosted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 2:22 pm 
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This is the n-th Leonardo ripoff. I've seen "Hollywood" adaptations with Marylin Monroe acting as Jesus, "Rock 'n' Roll" adaptations with Elvis, and political adaptations with local political Poobahs like Kohl, Schmidt, Schroeder. It isn't, too, the first fashion adaptation I see. I believe Benetton has adapted the Leonardo pic early in the 80ies. Even I myself once drew a similar pic with a big barrel of beer instead of Jesus, with the underline "The great Vat Bitburger appears to his loyal followers" as an invitation card for a party. In 1983. I got some flak from a deeply religious schoolmate, but anyway, he wasn't invited.

With god at philosophical disposal, it is hard work to produce a real blasphemy these days. At least with the Christian religion, which has lived through most of the possible stages of blasphemy / idolatry / etc. itself.

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PostPosted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 2:35 pm 
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A visual image cannot be blasphemy. Only spoken words.

It is possible, dimly, that this could be considred sacrilige, though.

But not by me.

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PostPosted: Mon 14 Mar , 2005 5:59 pm 
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yovargas wrote:
To the people who are bothered by this, are you similarly bothered by movies such as (Mel Brook's) A History of the Wolrd or (Monty Python's) Life of Brian?


Those don't bother me. I think they're really funny and enjoy wwatching them. There's a difference between poking fun at/satirising and this ad. This ad associates itself with high art, and I find the fashion industry kind of disgusting. It's not even that well done.

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PostPosted: Tue 15 Mar , 2005 12:48 am 
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I saw History of the World only once, many years ago when it came out in theaters, and I have no urge to see it again--so I can't assess whether it would bother me now.

Life of Brian doesn't bother me. The lampooning is aimed at the quirks and faults of religious people, not at religion; Christ himself is presented inoffensively, at the periphery of the story. To me it seems more than a cut above the usual treatment of religion in popular entertainment, where it simply doesn't exist outside a few rarely used clichés. At least Life of Brian has the idea that there is something to talk about.

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PostPosted: Tue 15 Mar , 2005 9:51 am 
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I might just point out that although History of the World has been mentioned here, nobody has pointed out that they did a very similar riff on DaVinci's Last Supper with Mel Brooks as the Waiter. The difference being that it was funny as all hell, while this is just... lame?

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PostPosted: Tue 15 Mar , 2005 1:26 pm 
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vison wrote:
As for this Dan Brown bird, holy cats. How do you say Drivel in Elvish? I don't know why trees need to be cut down to make paper to print this stuff on.

There was a similar book, almost as badly written, a few years ago, called, "Holy Blood, Holy Grail". I toiled through it, and thought, "What twaddle." Since Mr. Brown's opus appeared, and since it caused such a fuss, I gave it a go. Ick. Ick. Ick.



We have thread on this in books Vision, you should check it out ;)

BTW, in my humble opinion this does fall under blasphamy. Not because it's a bad portrayal of the Last supper, but because its a bad portray of De Vinci's work (like Dan Brown).

But, how many people would spot that it was 'The Last Supper', especially of the target audience. I would not have spotted it unless pointed out, too much missing.

I mean, where is the odd hand??????

Where is the M?

Where is the knife?

If somebody is going to do a shameless ripoff, they need to include the main conspiracies after all. :D

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PostPosted: Tue 15 Mar , 2005 2:47 pm 
Als u het leven te ernstig neemt, mist u de betekenis.
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Dindraug wrote:
I would not have spotted it unless pointed out, too much missing.

I mean, where is the odd hand??????

Where is the M?

Where is the knife?
Not to mention the chairs.

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PostPosted: Tue 15 Mar , 2005 5:18 pm 
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... And the fact that the foot/leg to person ratio does not add up!

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PostPosted: Tue 15 Mar , 2005 5:23 pm 
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I do wonder about how many people in their target audience... I would suppose they are targeting young, rich people?... would 1. recognize the work of art they are lampooning or 2. care about the "shock" value of the religious "poke".

Just wonderin'. :D

It doesn't make me want to jump up in down in anger... just a mild shoulder shrug, really... but it doesn't make me want to rush out and buy any clothes, either.


Whatever. :roll:


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