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Doug Adams wrote:

Happy Two Towers Day, Everyone!!

The Podcast is up:
http://media20a.libsyn.com/podcasts/fsm ... st_020.mp3

The Annotated Score goes live tomorrow (Tuesday).
http://www.lordoftherings-soundtrack.com/

The Two Towers: The Complete Recordings now belongs to the world.

...I dearly wish someone would send me a copy now, I've never actually seen the final thing!

Enjoy, everyone. I'll be back later in the day.

Best always,

-Doug Adams

Quote:

Tracksounds speaks with composer HOWARD SHORE just after the release of the second installment of his mammoth LORD OF THE RINGS music project: THE TWO TOWERS COMPLETE RECORDINGS. Howard Shore shares about his experience in putting the complete releases together, his work on the Lord of the Rings Symphony, his foree into the video game genre, SOUL OF THE ULTIMATE NATION, and his possible involvement in THE HOBBIT!

CC: How do you feel about the end product of THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING AND THE TWO TOWERS COMPLETE RECORDINGS?

HS: Well, we work on them for about a year each release and so I'm really happy to be putting out the recordings thus far. Now, we're starting on RETURN OF THE KING. Doug Adam's notes make good connections between Tolkien's writings, Peter Jackson's film and even to my connection through the music.

CC: Would you say that these complete recording releases are as much for you personally as they might be for the fans?

HS: We always talked about putting out all the recordings. We were talking about it when we were originally working on the THE TWO TOWERS, so the idea has been around for a while. When we were putting out the initial releases, we could only do the one-disc release at the time. I always had in my mind the hope that I would put everything out and now we have the time to spend on it. There is a group of us who work on the project very specifically throughout most of the year.

CC: So you've completed two and you're diving into THE RETURN OF THE KING, which probably has more unreleased music than the other two. How will you handle that?

HS: Oh yes. RETURN OF THE KING will be four compact discs. In total there will be 10 compact discs...close to 11 hours of music!

CC: Now THE LORD OF THE RINGS SYMPHONY you've been working on, has that experience provided you an additional opportunity to fine tune your work?

HS: Well, the symphony is a six movement piece that runs two hours and ten minutes, so it is an edited version of the complete work. But yes, I did do that. Actually, I'm still doing little tweaks to the music to this day. I'm always working on some new edition of it. I'm still doing little things to the symphony.

It wasn't practical to play 11 hours of music, but it was practical to play two hours in a concert hall with an intermission. In the symphony, you are only hearing about 1/5th of all of the music. The complete recordings is a way to hear the piece as it was created. It has a form and a shape to it that I don't think anyone has ever really heard.

CC: Do you think you will release the symphonic version as a live recording someday?

HS: I think I will, but not until all of the complete recordings have been released. I feel that it's best to have the music as it was composed first, then you could do a live recording.

CC: Is there a definitive version of the music of THE LORD OF THE RINGS?

HS: I think the complete recordings are definitive.

CC: Now, I've listened to THE TWO TOWERS COMPLETE RECORDINGS a couple times through, and just as other have remarked, there is so much new music that it feels like a completely new score. Was this your hope or intention?

HS: I knew something would happen when I started assembling it. You have to realize that I never got to listen to it. We were so busy making the films. When I was recording THE TWO TOWERS, we recorded it section by section. I never heard the music in total until I saw the finished film. But even the film doesn't have the complete score in it. The original soundtrack we put out was only an hour or seventy minutes, so that wasn't complete either. It wasn't until I put all the music together and took the time to listen to those three hours of music that I began to understand how it was really shaped, what the form was. It started to make more sense to me the more I listened to it. Now, having listened to it all many, many times, I have begun to understand it in a different way. Even though I had created it and wrote it...it was like writing chapters but not reading the whole book.

CC: Now Doug Adams notes on the score reveals a level of depth that even those who have listened to film music for a long time might not pick up on...not at least until they read the notes and listen to complete recordings. Now you must have had this intricacy in mind as you were writing the music for the films all along.

HS: Yes. This is because the composition is based on Tolkien and the intricacy, the complexity of it is due to the complexity of the book. Even I didn't really see it all because it was like I was looking at in very small pieces. It wasn't until I assembled it all that I began to understand how it all related, which is what Doug's book is about. It's like we are discovering it now more than when I was actually writing it! It wasn't that it was perfectly planned. It's because the composition is describing Tolkien's world. It's inherent, then, that the music has the same complexity that Tolkien put into the book. It wouldn't be written correctly to his book if it were otherwise.

CC: This is an interesting thought-line because one can think of some other film-trilogies that feature some surface connections of musical themes and motifs, but nothing near the level found in THE LORD OF THE RINGS. Are you saying that some of that detail was intentional yet some of it was unintentional but still happened because you were following what Tolkien had already established?

HS: Exactly. It becomes more intentional in THE TWO TOWERS and it becomes even more intentional in THE RETURN OF KING. At the beginning of the project, the level of Tolkien's complexity seemed daunting, but after two years of writing it became interesting. So I wrote my way into it and around it and through it. THE RETURN OF THE KING, being the end, is really the culmination of all of the work that came before. You'll see that in Doug's writing and in his notes.

CC: Now you have had projects since THE LORD OF THE RINGS, how do those projects compare, in your own mind, when you can't go to that level of depth and detail? Is it freeing for you or constraining?

HS: There is only one LORD OF THE RINGS! Actually, I want to go to that level. I'm doing an opera now because I need to create some music like that. You build up a certain type of thinking and you need the creative space to exercise. Films are great and fun and I love doing them...but as I said there really is only one LORD OF THE RINGS. There was only that one book and I would love to find another subject that allow me to do that kind of work for.

CC: Now that you say that, there has been quite a bit of talk about THE HOBBIT being made into one or two movies...possibly by Peter Jackson. If that happens, do you see that as another opportunity to dive back into that world and detail?

HS: Yes. Definitely. Peter and I both want to make the movie. We've talked about it. We really want to do it, so we're hoping it all works out. I would love to return to Middle Earth and write more music for that world.

CC: In the back of your mind, have already begun that process?

HS: Yes.

CC: Sort of difficult not to, I'd think!

HR. Yes.

CC: You did a score for a video game, SOUL OF THE ULTIMATE NATION, which has has a lot of similarities to THE LORD OF THE RINGS. Firstly, how did you get involved with that project?

HS: Well, that is a fantasy world that I composed a piece for based on drawings and beautiful sketches of cultures, civilizations, and characters. The game is actually still in development. I played the THE LORD OF THE RINGS symphony at the Kremlin in Moscow and it was with a Russian orchestra - a really wonderful one, the National Philharmonic of Russia. The choir was the National Arts Choral Society of Moscow. Well, I wanted to write something for them and this video game project came up. So I wrote the piece for them and created another work based on another complete fantasy world.

CC: Did you get to utilize some material for SOUL OF THE ULTIMATE NATION that you didn't use for THE LORD OF THE RINGS or did you start from scratch?

HS: I think I just started from scratch and I wrote for text that was written in ancient Korean. I probably had more flexibility with this project because I wasn't writing to pictures or movement. There was creative room to spread out a little.

CC: Do you see yourself continuing to compose for video games?

HS: I think that it is an interesting world to work in. Yes.

CC: Possibly giving you some of that depth that you want to explore...even more than film?

HS: Well...don't know. Possibly.

CC: One last question - Do you have any timetable for the release of THE RETURN OF THE KING COMPLETE RECORDING?

HS: It will be next year sometime. It might come out a little earlier than THE TWO TOWERS. It just depends on how well we do with it.

CC: Thank you so much for your time and congratulations on the release of THE TWO TOWERS COMPLETE RECORDINGS. All the best to you.

HS: Thank you and to you too.

Quote:

ScoreKeeper: The release of the complete recordings for THE LORD OF THE RINGS trilogy is unprecedented. It’s easily one of the more notable commercial releases in the history of film music. At what point did you find out these CDs were going to happen and how did the idea of releasing these recordings originate?

Howard Shore: Hmmm. I think it may have been during TWO TOWERS in the studio…Peter and I talked about putting out all of the music that had been recorded during TWO TOWERS.

SK: There are so many compositional ideas in THE LORD OF THE RINGS. Was there ever anything that you fell in love with that never made it into the score?

HS: (pauses while thinking)…No. Writing was a very linear process. I was writing while the films were being made. We were kind of working hand in hand with both.

SK: Is there anything else you’d love to do with THE LORD OF THE RINGS music that hasn’t already been done?

HS: Possibly a live projection project where we’d play the score live to the film.



SK: Wow! Is that currently in the works?

HS: It’s an idea. I’m thinking about it. It’s been done with other films. I did it on NAKED LUNCH (1991) with Ornette Coleman. We played it in Belfast, Ireland, and at the Barbican in London. In Belfast it was just the Ulster Orchestra and in London it was the BBC concert orchestra and Ornette’s trio. We did it live to a projection of NAKED LUNCH with separate tracks for dialogue and effects. It’s an interesting concert-sort-of-film-going experience. It’s like an enhanced movie experience.



SK: So would you try to do each complete film say like Wagner’s Ring Cycle and perform them each on a different night?

HS: (laughing) I haven’t really got that far. It’s just an idea. The (Lord of the Rings Symphony) is two hours and ten minutes. It’s a six movement piece. The complete piece is close to eleven hours. So really if you wanted to play it live, that would be a way to do it. It would really be a way to play the complete recording.

SK: When I came up with the question, I couldn’t think of anything left for you to do but there you go. That would be awesome!

HS: I think that’s the only thing (laughing).


SK: This project has taken up almost a decade of your life and you’ll probably continue to be actively involved with it in some capacity for the rest of your career. Do you think you’ll ever get tired of keeping up with it? Would you ever just want to be completely done?

HS: No! You know, Christopher Lee reads the book every year. It’s such a fascinating story. The qualities that Tolkien wrote into the story are some of the greatest human qualities: friendship, honor, courage, sacrifice. Just amazing qualities!

I think as human beings, you never really tire of those relationships because they’re just written so well. They’re described so well. That’s really the beauty in how he instills these great human qualities into that work. I think what makes it interesting is exploring those qualities and expressing them. I think the people who are interested in Tolkien’s work and in our work in making the film kind of goes together. We feel as strongly about it as well.


SK: I believe the music for THE LORD OF THE RINGS represents one of the, if not the, greatest achievements in the history of film music. No single composer faced so many seemingly impossible obstacles in one project and in the end so overwhelmingly overcame those obstacles. Is there anything about your work in this film that people may not know that you feel is important to share?

HS: I always had a real strong connection with Frodo and his journey. He was a hobbit who was given a large task to do. I felt very similar in the beginning. You felt the weight of the ring and you felt that you were set on this great journey.

Our story parallels the story of THE LORD OF THE RINGS. Our fellowship was formed as well between the collaborators who made the film. We all went on the same journey. We all supported each other and helped each other and creatively encouraged each other to do their best work. I think the fact that our work parallels the story is part of the process. I think that is part of the journey really.

It’s only now, afterwards, in the same way the Hobbits returned to the Shire at the end, and looked, and the world had changed a little bit and they were slightly different. I think we’re feeling that as well. We’re looking back at our work and reflecting on it. The release of “The Complete Recordings” is really part of that process. It’s really a reflection on the work and what we’ve done. We’re kind of going through the same process like they did. I think that connection to the story is also part of our lives.


SK: What scene, in the entire LORD OF THE RINGS trilogy, are you most proud of?

HS: I don’t know…I think the Shire scene was very natural writing for me. That scene and the fellowship scene came very early on and they’re really true expressions of how I felt about THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING. And then, things really just grooved from there. The work that I did, which was almost four years of writing and orchestrating and conducting, are all based on the beginnings of FELLOWSHIP and then leading into TWO TOWERS. I was on the journey as well.

Now putting out all the recordings, I look back and I see and remember so clearly the steps along the way and the struggle to do the work and trying to do the most human expression of Tolkien’s story.


SK: When are the complete recordings for THE LORD OF THE RINGS: THE RETURN OF THE KING (2003) expected?

HS: I’m working on it now. I’m going through the four discs. I’m starting to go through the editing process – first of all, we’re just making sure that everything is accounted for – and then the editing into the CDs and giving the CDs their shape and trying to work out the best form for the tracks.

Then there’s all the technical requirements as well; the different formats we release in. We release them as enhanced stereo and different surround-sound formats. They’re all part of the process of making the box sets.

Then there’s also Doug’s (Adams) liner notes which are incredibly important. Being and working with Doug is incredible and he’s doing a brilliant job. The notes are just a fantastic…part of the process and he’s been able to review the scores in a way and write about them.



SK: I definitely agree. The liner notes enhance the sets so well.

HS: They kind of go together. He explains it in a way that’s knowledgeable but in a friendly way so that if you weren’t able to read the score you could still understand how the music related to each other and how the cultures related to each other and the objects and the characters. I think he’s done a great job.


SK: How long did it take to produce each individual box set?

HS: It took about ten months, I think, for FELLOWSHIP. TWO TOWERS as well. It takes awhile (laughing). It’s a lot of music, it’s a lot of art, it’s a lot of pages of score. I think we’re getting better though. Maybe with RETURN OF THE KING, we can get it done a little faster than that but I’d say on the average it’s kind of going at about that rate.


SK: Let’s say hypothetically that Peter Jackson decides to take on THE HOBBIT somewhere in the future. Would you like to revisit middle-earth with him?

HS: I’d love that. It would be wonderful. It would be so great to return to middle-earth and be writing music in that world again.


SK: Have you fantasized in your own mind the themes for THE HOBBIT?

HS: Yes. (laughing)

SK: (laughing)…I’ve got one final wrap-up question. I’m curious. Where do you keep your Oscars?

HS: There in my office in the studio.


SK: Well Howard, thank you so much for taking time out to talk with me. I think I can speak on behalf of LORD OF THE RINGS fans everywhere in thanking you for releasing these complete recordings box sets and I anxiously await THE RETURN OF KING.

HS: Thank you.

Quote:

Hi everyone,

Happy Thanksgiving to those of you in the US. And happy Thursday, November 23 to the rest!

>>>I noticed in "The Sons Of The Steward" that the music over Denethor's first appearance (the very first glimpse we get at him) is very similar to the score that plays over his dialogue with Gandalf. Could that be Denethor's theme? Does he have one?>>>

No, no specific connection here, I’m afraid. Shore uses some of the same harmonic devices in the quote of the History of the Ring theme in the TT scene as he does in ROTK when Denethor begins to lose his temper, but there’s no specific leitmotif… just a stylistic fingerprint.

Denethor does not have a personal theme, but there is *some* material associated with him. You’ll see that soon-ish…

>>>Plus, in the same track I noticed that little Cello motif that plays in Fellowship when Boromir says to Frodo "There are other roads we can take". It plays in TTT when Denethor asks Boromir to go to Rivendell.>>>

>>>I also noticed that the cello motif I spoke of shares a resemblance with the Minas Tirith theme. It's used only twice, once for Boromir in his crucial scene at the end of FOTR, and once for Denethor in TTT. Maybe it is intentional and is supposed to illustrate by which ill- guided mentality the former glory of Gondor got ruined by drawing a connection to the Minas Tirith theme.>>>

These are very strong thoughts, and absolutely interesting, but if you look at the specific material in question, I think you’ll see that the connection isn’t really there:

FOTR: F C Bb f (eb)

TTT: G F C G

I think you could make the case that you can see Shore processing his sound for the music of Men in these two scenes, but I don’t think you could say that this is a specific, purposeful corruption of Gondor (or Minas Tirith) material. The rising fifth certainly would lead one towards Gondor, but remember that Éowyn begins with a fifth as well, so it’s not a uniquely Gondorian device.

>>>Question about tracked ROTK music: when Gandalf confronts the Witch King in Minas Tirith, a triumphant version of the "Fellowship In Rohan" motif plays. I've never noticed or even considered that such a motif existed, but now that I know ... is that part of the score tracked in from TTT (the scene in Helm's Deep, when Gimli jumps into the Uruks' way to protect Aragorn)?>>>

That’s not tracked in this case… and if you listen very carefully, you’ll find that this is actually a twist on the Realm of Gondor, not The Fellowship in Rohan. The Fellowship in Rohan needs that triplet figure at the end to be complete, since really that’s the part of the theme that references the Rohan style.

Although, on the other hand, it sure would make sense to have the Fellowship in Rohan quoted here wouldn’t it, considering what happens next!

>>>I really think we need to listen to Doug here... Think of this as a typical management/labor dispute... One side threatens this or that, the other responds by calling the press... and so on.>>>

Well, as I say, I’m being speculative here, nothing more nothing less. I honestly don’t have inside information on this. Everyone knew that the lawsuit was in place, and that it stood to make some waves when the topic of The Hobbit was finally approached, but I don’t think anyone figured on MGM and New Line getting together so quickly. So there was always the though that maybe the suit would be finished by that time. Always in motion is the future!

Just for fun, however, I will offer one last speculation… the stage is certainly well set at this point for MGM to swoop in as the benevolent arbiter, is it not? They’re the only one with no grievances on either side of the dispute, so they’re in a nice spot to resolve things while allowing both New Line and Jackson’s camp to show their strong sides. Again, I honestly don’t know. But we shall see.

>>>If that's correct, Timdalf, then we must pressure New Line into bringing PJ back. If they see that their decision doesn't cause a violent reaction among LOTR fans, they will go through with it. I suggest we start a petition.>>>

As indicated in other posts, I think theonering.net has already begun a large fan-based campaign. I’d check with them, before unintentionally starting a splinter faction.

>>>I don't know if you're tired of the proofreading 'help'. Some tasks have to be considered 'finished'. But if you're looking to correct anything in the Annotated Score of TTT, I found this under the info for Disc 2, Track 11, Arwen's Fate:>>>

We will be doing a bit of cleaning on all the Annotated Score PDFs when we build ROTK’s. The boo-boos will be addressed at that time, thankfully.

>>>Great to have you back, Doug! I hope everything's fine with your family...and, yes, you did miss a lot!>>>

It’s been a stressful month, I’ll say that much without digging too deep into my own dirty laundry. But, we’re all fine, and moving ahead.

>>>The complaint: disc 2, track 8 - The Wolves of Isengard.......the wonderful choral part that we hear on the OST is not there, except the tail end of it.......that's it! Now, I'd like to know why Shore chose to leave it out. (Do you know, or will you ask him...for me? For us...yes, I meant for us...precious )I think I'd prefer hearing both the choral and fiddle parts together. (Of course, the other choral part with Isengard is awesome!) It just sounds...naked without it. Also, I'd really like to know what the text is (the missing choral piece, not the Isengard/choral piece). It's obviously in Old English, but I'd like to see the Old English and English translation. And, I really wonder why I like it so much...? I can't figure it out. How did he write it, and part-write it? (Will you please tell me?) To me, it has an "open" and "ethereal" quality, and I just love it! I really think there's something different about it that separates it from all the other choral pieces in the entire trilogy. Of course, I'm realizing that all of the Old English choral moments are absolutely spectacular!!! (Maybe I'll learn Old English )>>>

Well, this choice is consistent with (most of) the others in the boxed sets… if the OST presented something different than the film version, then the CR presents the film version. Therefore, on the CR you first hear the fiddle, then the chorus. The text is “The Call,” which is translated in the Annotated Score.

How did Shore write it? Part of what gives this writing such a unique sound is that Shore doesn’t limit himself strictly to SATB writing… he loves to divide the parts and create very thick, unusual harmonies… often somewhat pan-diatonic in nature. It’s very much like his approach to string writing.

>>>The choir portion of the Nazgul Attack (right before Theoden Rides Forth begins) was the biggest moment for me, and I'm not sure if it's new but I think it's a remix of music also on the original soundtrack. If it is, it's one hell of a remix. That choir portion practically knocked my socks off. Easily my favorite part of the entire score. Wow.>>>

Théoden Rides Forth on the OST uses the White Rider (in Nature) theme that’s heard when Gandalf appears in Fangorn. The WR(in) theme heard for Théoden’s ride on the CR (and in the film) is a different performance altogether, not a remix of the earlier performance.

>>>Well done Doug on your book and annotated score>>>

Thanks! We’ve got a couple of big meetings on the real book in December, and ROTK is now well under way.

But for today, it’s turkey and relaxation. Take care all!

-Doug

Quote:

>>>Good to know. But the CR has only about a third of the piece...what's the story there? A different cut of the film? Or perhaps it was written to play through to the end of the fight with the balrog?>>>

Actually, the CR has the version of the piece that was used in the film… not the longer unused version that was heard on the OST.

Remember, because of the nature of LOTR’s recording process, there’s some sort of alternate version of almost *everything*… whether it’s compositionally different, or simply a different performance. It was extremely rare that there would be one take, and it was in the bag signed, sealed, delivered. In fact it was rare enough that we actually took the time to note once such instance in the TT Annotated. So nine time out of ten, if you’re noticing something slightly different, this is the reason. Shore may have been composing to a cut of the film that only existed for 2 days in August of that year.

Each score in LOTR recorded for about 6 weeks… which is pretty amazing when you compare that to the 5 or so days many major films/scores are allowed. But during this time the film was constantly in flux to some degree, so score adjustments were a pretty common order of the day. As we’ve all noted before, the CRs are meant to tell a story so, working towards that goal, decisions have to be made. What best relates this music to the story we know? What best relates it to its film counterpart? What works best musically?

The Gandalf the White (in Nature) music heard on the OST matched a different cut of the film, but the performance on the CR was the one that was ultimately used. It didn’t go into the Balrog fight, Gandalf simply took a bit longer to say hello.

>>>And there's the alternate choral piece for the balrog fight in the EE credits, too. Shore must have been rather busy writing for that part of the film...>>>

He was at that!

>>>And in the spirit of the holiday, I'm thankful for your ongoing posts here.>>>

Thanks, I’m glad you guys have so many insightful questions!

>>>I love the music (does it have a name?) when Frodo ponders on the shore and gets into the boat at Parth Galen in FOTR and over Sam's speech in TTT, and so I was very disappointed not to hear it near the end of ROTK as I was practically expecting it at some point. Now we all know that an Epilogue was (at least partly) filmed for ROTK, and I'm sure we'd all very much like to have seen it. My question is, did Mr Shore ever compose any music for this scene, or at least plan to, and would it have been this? Only I think its the perfect blend of bitter-sweet and would be perfect for such a scene. Or if not, did Howard plan to use it for any scene in ROTK and eventually scrap it? Thanks.>>>

This is “A Hobbit’s Understanding,” and the theme relates to the hobbits’ simple and pure world view. (It’s really a development of the Shire material.) In the score it’s used a gentle driving force… it’s what urges the hobbits to carry on with their quest.

In ROTK, the hobbits complete their quest, and so this music which helped them to carry on in the face of adversity does not appear. ROTK’s end is about serenity and finality, so the music is quite different here. This is the one time in the story that Frodo cannot continue… so it’s a different type of bittersweet.

>>>Well, in fact it does play at the Grey Havens. You mean the first six chords of The Breaking Of The Fellowship, don't you?>>>

Well, you do get to hear a bit of Gandalf’s Farewells, but that can all be examined later!

>>>But knowing nothing about how much time and effort goes into putting something up on the web in a pdf format... I will say no more. ;-) Not to mention that you have more important things on the horizon which we all too hasty ones already are clammoring for because the FotR and TTT were so magnificently produced: namely the RotK-CR!!

One other quibble: Could you change the name of one theme: "The Heroics of Aragorn" sounds sorta like "antics", or "theatrics" to my ear. My dictionary (Random House Webster's Collegiate) defines the word primarily as "flamboyant or extravagant language, sentiment or behavior intended to seem heroic". Wouldn't "heroism of" or "heroic deeds of" be better? Although there is "politics" or "physics" or "acoustics" or "acrobatics"... So maybe I am being too picky?>>>

Looks like a proper fit to me:

Heroics

–adjective
1. Also, heroical. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of a hero or heroine.
2. suitable to the character of a hero in size or concept; daring; noble: a heroic ambition.
3. having or displaying the character or attributes of a hero; extraordinarily bold, altruistic, determined, etc.: a heroic explorer.
4. having or involving recourse to boldness, daring, or extreme measures: Heroic measures were taken to save his life.
5. dealing with or describing the deeds, attributes, etc., of heroes, as in literature.
6. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of the heroes of antiquity: heroic mythology.
7. used in heroic poetry. Compare heroic verse.
8. resembling heroic poetry in language or style; grandiloquent.
9. (of style or language) lofty; extravagant; grand.
10. larger than life-size: a statue of heroic proportions.

The name “The Heroics of Aragorn” is actually an inside reference for me as well… although it’s possible some others may have spotted it. Either way, it’s a permanent resident.

Oh, and “clamoring” only has one M in it.

-Doug

Quote:

>>>Ah that wouldn't by any chance have anything to do with the cut scene when Gandalf kisses Pippin on the forehead amongst other things would it?

EDIT: Actually, I just noticed you didn't actually say "a bit MORE of.....". Did you mean to or am I just reading into something that isn't there? (:>>>

Heh, no I wasn’t dropping any hints there. “More” was not an intended resident of that sentence, sorry!

>>>Doug, is there an e-mail address where we could send Annotated Score corrections to, or are you fine with us posting them here? Since you've mentioned that they will all be corrected eventually, the avid (or should I say habitual?) proofreaders among us will be more than happy to root out all of those irksome errors for you.>>>

Well, that’s very generous, but just for the sake of clarity, we’re not soliciting for proofreaders at this time. Your posted findings are, of course, more than welcome… but right now we’re much more in ROTK liners mode than Annotated fix-up mode. In fact, draft one of the ROTK liners will be sent off in the not too distant future.

>>> The print-outs with the background intact do look really nice, though. At this point I'm very happy that I decided to go ahead and print, because it's much easier to read along while listening if you have a print-out.>>>

You should also be aware that all the Annotated material (expanded somewhat) will be a part of the full book, so if you’re hesitant to punish your ink cartridges so relentlessly, you can also wait a bit. I don’t know that the formatting will be absolutely identical, but I don’t imagine that’ll be to upsetting to anyone.

>>>1-02 The Shire
0:58 The Hobbit Two-Step Figure accompaniment
1:16 The Hobbit Skip Beat accompaniment

Now, I may just be getting confused, but doesn't the Skip Beat come in at 1:05 too? As far as I can understand, the Skip Beat is used as a sort of ending for the first two runs of the Two-Step Figure. Is this right?>>>

You’ve got the right idea. Occasionally we had to make choices about what would best represent the first statement of an idea. After all, you can hear the down and back up shape in the orchestra as early as the Prologue, but at what point does that start to qualify as the Fellowship theme?

The 1:05 statement in the bassoon / mid strings is isolated, but the 1:16 statement moves into a line behind the melody, which is generally where the Skip Beat takes up residence. So we therefore felt that the 1:16 was a truer introduction of this material.

>>>I get very confused with all the Shire accompaniments, and the Mordor Skip Beat.>>>

The three notes of the Hobbit Skip Beat generally end where they began. Up and back, up and back. The Mordor Skip Beat climbs the scale much more aggressively. Always rising.

>>>You mentioned on the podcast that you wouldn't reveal the names of Return of the King themes yet, which led me to wondering: do you come up with the names for the themes, or were they already set by Howard Shore? Do you know if he worked out names for each theme, or was he content just with a general association with the subject for each theme?

Going by the discussion of the Heroics of Aragorn theme, it sounds like you made up all the titles yourself. (In which case I'd like to say good job so far! )>>>

Thanks! By and large, the theme titles come from me, but certainly through discussion with Howard. Some of the early theme names came directly from Howard – the Ring themes, for example.

But I’m not doing any of this in a vacuum. I have hundreds and hundreds of pages of notes from Alan Frey (coordination supervisor), Sue Sinclair (album coordinator), and of course Howard, so there’s a great deal of molding going on over the months of preparation.

You couldn’t ask for a better group to work with!

-Doug

Quote:

[in response to people, myself included, mentioning that they've been collecting all his posts into Word documents...]
I’m actually slightly terrified imagining what you guys could be doing with this monstrous creation!

Oh, and I’m pushing for hardcover on the book, but we shall see...

-Doug

.......................
[regarding the format of the book]
Thanks, everyone!

Budget meetings begin next month... Of course if it comes down to "We can include multimedia content, or you can have a hardcover," I'll have to make the obvious choice... but we'll hope that that's not an issue. This is all very embryonic at the moment, but it's very exciting for the very same reason.

It's going to be a busy year with this and ROTK overlapping! Of course, I'll do my best to keep you all updated. Unless I collapse of fatigue first! (Sorry, I only make such pessimistic and dramatic statements well after midnight… )

-Doug

............................

>>>Recently I ordered and received FSM release of Jerry Goldsmith's Rio Conchos, and you have written the notes. Have you done many notes for other releases by FSM or any other label, and if so, what titles????>>>

I’ve done a handful over the years. I honestly don’t remember which FSM titles I added notes to at this point… In fact, I don’t even remember doing Rio Conchos, but I’ll happily take your word for it! I know I also did 100 Riffles (Goldsmith), Prince Valliant (Waxman) and All About Eve (Newman), because I remember those being large projects at the time.

I did a number of titles for Rykodisc in the mid 90s. These were great because I got to speak with a number of people I may not have otherwise had an opportunity to interview. I did In the Heat of the Night / They Call Me Mr. Tibbs! for Quincy Jones and Alice’s Restaurant for Arlo Guthrie… also did Across 100th Street, which Quentin Tarantino must have picked up, because it appeared in Jackie Brown immediately thereafter. (I was in grad school and living at home during this time by the way. Quincy Jones called while I was in classes so my mom got the call. He didn’t have a secretary or assistant make the call, he just picked up and dialed unannounced. My mom was of course stunned to hear, “Hi, this is Quincy Jones, is Doug there?” After she stammered for a while she managed to say, “I’m sorry, I’m not used to talking to famous people.” Quincy paused for a sec and replied, “Well, I could call back later…”)

Um… I did Rush Hour for Lalo Schifrin because I happened to be at the session when Bret Ratner called out, “Hey, we should do a score album!” I did the Arabesque release, Reel Life, which featured concert works by film composers, including Howard Shore. I just did The Nativity Story for Mychael Danna last month… I know I’m leaving things out, but these are what spring to mind at the moment.

But as LOTR is to average film scores, so are these liner notes to average liner notes… meaning, that they’re infinitely more involved and infinitely more rewarding. It’s going to be difficult finding a follow-up project that offers anything near what LOTR has provided…

But there are a couple of amazing ideas scattered across the table right now, so we’ll see…

>>>If I had to choose, I would choose the multimedia content. But if it's paperback, as a consumer, I would hope you consider the binding and how well it will open. Like I said, most larger paperbacks (that is a larger face size of page... not thickness) will do fairly well, but there is a binding called 'lay flat' binding. I don't know what the advantages and disadvantages are for this type of binding... but I do know there are options and this consumer is weighing in on ease of opening when it's being considered.

I predict this book will be well read and well referenced over time. The best design and visual appeal in the world won't do us any good if it's hard to access the material in it or it falls apart easily. (Which, thank goodness... doesn't happen so much anymore.)

And, I think you should run a fan club scroll of names at the end of all your mates here.>>>

Well, the multimedia versus hardcover is purely a rhetorical what-if… I’m just trying to steel myself for a decision making process that I’m sure we’ll have to traverse. It’s a funny project, because it’s half-way between entertainment and academia. Now that’s sort of its appeal, I think but it creates a situation where content and presentation are nearly on an even plain. I mean, Dickens’ language is just as brilliant and satisfying in the well-used, mashed up volumes on my shelves at it is in the pristine new printings. But here, the physical book has to be accessible in just the right way, or nothing inside makes any difference. (I don’t, by the way, have the temerity to attempt comparing any of what I’m doing to Dickens… It’s Christmastime and he sprang to mind as an author with an indestructible sense of language.)

Anyway, coupling the physical needs of this book with the legal realities of What Can We License? What Can The Publishers Afford? Who Will Create This Graphic? This Page of Score? The Layout?... and you can see that it’s a demanding beast!

Oh yeah, and then I have to parasitically attach myself to one of the Twentieth Century’s great works of literature one of the Twenty-first Century’s great works of music, so there’s certainly an element of fate staring you in the eyes and challenging, “Ok smart guy, drop the ball, I dare you! Be the weak link!”

And with that said… I think I’d better get some writing done.

-Doug

Quote:

"LOTR" music an ongoing adventure for composer Shore
By Jeff Shannon
Special to The Seattle Times

The "Lord of the Rings" movies have been out of theaters and on DVD shelves for years.

Howard Shore already composed a symphony based on the scores, and it's even been more than two years since the Oscar-winning film composer conducted that "Lord of the Rings Symphony" in Seattle's Benaroya Hall.

But the story behind the music behind Frodo Baggins and his quest to destroy the One Ring is not over yet, as Shore is still completely immersed in the score he wrote for Peter Jackson's epic fantasy film trilogy. Following last year's release of "The Fellowship of the Ring: The Complete Recordings," Shore went right to work assembling "The Two Towers: The Complete Recordings," a three-CD/one-DVD set released last month. "The Return of the King" will get the same deluxe treatment next year, with a four-disc set that will, for the first time, contain Shore's complete score from the films in its impressive entirety.

"Lord of the Rings" music has been readily available in single-disc soundtrack releases, but Shore always knew he'd eventually assemble the scores, not merely to satisfy "Rings" fans, but to give himself an opportunity to hear his work, 10 hours from start to finish, as he'd never heard it before.

"The scores were recorded in sections, and not chronologically," Shore said by telephone from his office in New York, "so the first edit [of the complete recordings] was the first time I'd ever heard the whole piece. That was an interesting feeling, because I'd never heard the score in its entirety. You hear most of it in the films, but there are other sound elements in that context, so this was our first pure listening."

It's been only six years since Shore began his first "LOTR" recording sessions, but assembling the complete scores was still an archival effort. Most was on hard drive in London, but other elements were in New Zealand (where the films were produced) or at the offices of the trilogy's distributor, New Line Cinema.

"I was composing music based on J.R.R. Tolkien's books as well as Peter's films," said Shore, who researched Tolkien's "Middle-earth" for four months before writing a single note of music. "There were stand-alone pieces written as themes, like the music of the Shire and the Fellowship theme, and then I started adapting these themes in the process of scoring."

For Shore, "The Two Towers" represented the splintering of the Fellowship established in Jackson's first film, resulting in the most complex compositions of his three-film score. "The Complete Recordings" reflect this complexity, with new and recurring themes and leitmotifs that are constantly adapted to the shifting moods and atmospheres of Tolkien's epic adventure.

To that end, Shore recruited film-music expert Doug Adams to fully analyze the music, enabling casual listeners and experienced musicians alike to appreciate every aspect of composition, arrangement and orchestration. Adams attended some recording sessions and was given unlimited access to Shore's creative process, allowing him to write the booklets that accompany the "Complete Recordings" CD sets and an upcoming full-length book ("The Music of the Lord of the Rings Films," due in 2007) that explore Shore's music in fascinating depth and detail. (Adams' scholarly expertise can also be appreciated in the annotated scores available online at www.lordoftherings-soundtrack.com.)

"I needed somebody of Doug's talent to be a part of this project," said Shore. "His writing brings another kind of storytelling logic to the listening experience, to help musicians and lay people understand how the music relates to the films."
advertising

After the complete "Return of the King" score is released next year, Shore (who is currently orchestrating an opera inspired by David Cronenberg's film "The Fly," which he scored) will eventually record the two-hour, 10-minute "Lord of the Rings Symphony," which is still being performed to sellout crowds around the world.

Unfortunately, it's unlikely that Shore will score the proposed film version of "The Hobbit." Due to legal conflicts between Peter Jackson and New Line over profit distributions, the creative team behind the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy will not be involved.

Quote:

Let's move to the Complete Recordings of The Two Towers. I know you're closely involved in the making process of these incredible new editions. How do you feel about revisiting the whole thing now? What are your impressions about having all the music out on CD?

It's interesting—you know, when you're working on a film you're always working on sections of the film. There was really no time during the process that I could ever actually put all of the music together and listen to the edited piece. And it wasn't until I sat down and started editing the Complete Recordings together—The Two Towers recording, which is now out, is over three hours!—it wasn't until we actually assembled it all that we'd ever hear just the premiere hour piece, and it was. Once you do that, you realize [what you've done]. The [J.R.R. Tolkien's] book has such great bones to it, it has such great form, and the film also has great form that the music takes on this form as well, so when you listen to the whole three hours it takes you on a complete musical journey that I had never really known or experienced because, as I said, I was so deep in writing it. It's a kind of revelation to hear it as a complete piece. It's really a new piece. You didn't hear all that music in the film and surely you didn't hear it all on [the original] CDs. It is a way to put everything out in a way that is really creative. I'm delighted with that. I'm thrilled to be able to do that.

I have to say there's a great deal of care and detail as well in the production of these new edition, like the great, in-depth liner notes by Doug Adams. It's the closest thing to experience the listening of a full opera, really.

Doug's notes are wonderful. He's working on the notes and the book for years now—there's a complete stand-alone book about the music that will come out next year and it's all written by him. We're now starting work on The Return of the King, which will be four CDs.

Wow... So there will be ten CDs at the end.

It looks like it's going to be ten CDs, plus the DVDs in 5.1 surround sound. Another thing I haven't done before is that I had never heard the entire scores in surround. The surround [mix] were always done for the films—we mixed them in surround, but I never heard them continuously, just to sit down for three hours and listen to the entire work in surround. That's really the enjoyment, I think, and for the listener I hope it's a good experience to get—experience the piece, and the Tolkien story and the imagery from the film. They can have all that in listening to the music.
Perfoming The Lord of the Rings Symphony

After the “Rings” Symphony and the release of the full scores on CD, are you feeling 'complete' about Lord of the Rings? Or are there any other musical projects about it you still want to do?

I'd like to do a proper recording of the Symphony. After the Complete Recordings of The Return of the King will be out, I'll start to focus on the recording of the Symphony. The Symphony is a six movements piece, two hours and ten minutes of a ten hour score. It's an edited piece, but I'd love to do a good live recording of that. I'm also interested in a projection project that we're now discussing, in which we could perform The Fellowship of the Ring live to a projection of the film.

You mean the whole movie?

Yes.

With the complete score played live?

Yes.

Wow... I think it's something never been done before! Surely not with a movie of such length! I really hope you will be able to do that!

We're working on it. I'm starting to work on the score. After having done the Complete Recordings, we'll have almost all the [written] scores organized, so it's possible to do that.

Lord of the Rings is something you'll be forever remembered for. Are you able now to say how big the impact of this project was for you as an artist and as a composer?

I'm very grateful for the opportunity to work on Tolkien's book—it's such a great book, a classic of the 20th century and an important work, and Peter [Jackson] and Fran [Walsh] and Philippa [Boyens]'s team play was wonderful. To be able to work with these great artists, and with Tolkien, is really a gift for a composer. I'm really happy that I was able to have the energy and the experience to write this piece. We wanted to create something that was lasting and a well-constructed piece.

Quote:

I'm also interested in a projection project that we're now discussing, in which we could perform The Fellowship of the Ring live to a projection of the film.

Quote:

Hi everyone,

Happy Holidays to all – and Happy Impending Weekend to those whose interests don’t coincide with any particular upcoming holidays. I’ve finally got a few free moments to dig through a handful of questions and update you on the Complete Recordings – although it looks like you guys are getting pretty good at answering questions on your own!

>>>just a question: is the c.r. music from the original recording? or was this music especially recorded for the cr?>>>

>>>The CR consists of the recordings made for the original post-production of the theatrical releases, and then those made for the post-production of the extended versions of each film. Nothing new was recorded for the CRs.>>>

See, I’m not needed here! 

>>>Frodo's "Threads of an old life" scene at the end of The Return of the King has the music that commonly plays underneath the Pensive Setting of the Hobbit Theme (I'm pretty sure). Now, was the music for this scene recorded as is, or was the Pensive Setting edited out so we only here the music underneath? I hope we hear it as is, because it is one of my favorite parts of the score.>>>

You’re hearing the music here as it was recorded. Unless something changes, you’ll be hearing the music exactly like this on the ROTK: CR set.

>>>Also, I think we all know by now that Gandalf's arrival at Minas Tirith was changed in the film, but did Shore score that scene as originally planned? If so, will we hear it in that form (which I think might be similar to the OST unless there is unused music) or will we hear it as heard in the film?>>>

Shore’s music was written to the original cut of the film, with Gandalf’s initial arrival at Minas Tirith coinciding with Faramir’s retreat from Osgiliath. In all honesty, it is still being decided how this will be presented on the CD set.

>>>Doug, is there any hope to hear the abandoned version of the "Into the west" (not sure about the title) song by Lennox in the CR?>>>

If you’re referring to “Use Well These Days”… currently it seems unlikely that this will placed on the ROTK: CR set, simply because it’s never actually a part of the storytelling. However, it will be included on an upcoming release, so don’t worry at all. You’ll have it.

>>>IIRC it was even featured on some of the OST versions, right?>>>

It was on the DVD that came with the deluxe ROTK CD, yep.

>>>So I've been around the board long enough to hear quite a bit about Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen. I have to admit, I am a 100% "Ring" virgin but am very interested in checking it out. What do you all suggest as the best way to go about beginning this journey? Thanks!>>>

Hey, with all this Wagner shoptalk, I thought some of you may be interested in a book by Bryan Magee, The Tristan Chord: Wagner and Philosophy.
Link

(I don’t know Bryan, so I’m not stumping for him, but given the intellectual points parsed in the Wagner discussion, I thought this wouldn’t be out of line.)

>>>Another question - have you thought about some sort of gift set when this is all said and done? I was thinking something alongside the Extended Edition Gift Sets with the following:>>>

>>>I've mentioned this way back in the past somewhere, but they should offer a slip case mail away offer for the CRs like they did for the EEs. I did that for my EE movies and it works great.

Doug, would a release of all three CRs in a box set happen to coincide with the release of ROTK:CR or will it be just a solo release only? Just curious. Thanks!>>>

You’re not too far off the mark here.

>>>mine doesn't shut either! I would expect a lot more for 60 dollars>>>

FYI, the shutting issue is related to shipping not manufacturing, so I’m afraid there’s little the production side can do short of requesting that handlers take a little more care… which is being done.

>>>Good News about your book Doug, I am waiting with great anticipation (are we all?!)
About the hobbit themes Doug, you’re saying that the Lullaby setting is returning not debuting. Is that a mistake because I can find this in FOTR>>>

It is a conscious decision. The Lullaby material is based so closely on the original Shire theme (as it should be) that it can’t really be called a brand new motif. However, something like the Playful Setting takes the Shire’s stepwise intro and creates an entirely new motif out of it, so that was pegged as Debuting material. It’s a fine line, and we have to be very, very careful to properly present the nature of the material.

>>>And now, let's hear about the preliminary work being done on The Return of the King: The Complete Recordings! Ohhhh, Doooouuuug!!!!!>>>

Heh, well, it’s happening! The liners are in a rough form, a draft of a first rough edit is completed. HS is busy with his opera right now (as well as some other projects… yes, one of which is LOTR related), so as soon as he has time, his first round of comments will come in and we’ll begin coordinating efforts.

>>>Regarding the Balrog fight/Gandalf rebirth music in the Fan credits on the EE...the opening twenty or so seconds of that piece (2:04:33_4:55, Disc Two, Region 1;lyrics from "The Fight"?) is an alternate for Gandalf being revealed to the Three Hunters, isn't it? I was syncing unused music with the DVD tonight, and it seems to fit there. (43:24_43:48, Region 1, TE)>>>

Yep, it is an alternate. The version on the CR is the other significant take… and the one that HS ultimately decided to use here.

>>>In case I've missed hints about this, is the 'rarities disc' expected to be part of the multimedia content of the book?>>>

>>>That's the rumor. I remember suggesting this to Doug many moons ago, I will go through my posts and find out, just for S&Gs!>>>

It’s still the rumor, as well. I’ll discuss details when details are more detailed. 

>>>One question I have which any one on this message board who has the set can answer is: In the end credits of the film (not the Fan Credits, but the actual credits), correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't there the music piece (the nature them I think) where the trio meet Gandalf The White included and seemed somewhat expanded from the actual proper place in the film, --- I don't think I heard this on TTT:CR end credits section??????, or was I so overwhelmed by the experience that I didn't pick that out individually by itself?????>>>

See above, it you will. The Fan Scroll music was an alternate.

>>>I think it is funny and great, that moment in the recordings on the first disc of The Two Towers - I think it might be track 6 at about 3:30 minutes in, and I just can't get that moment (5 beat pattern) out of my head of the excitement and anticipation of that podcast.........'And this is the moment you've all been waiting for!!!!...........'

Thanks Doug...........LOL I don't think I will ever imagine anything else, some may say you've ruined the piece for me as I imagine nothing else but your voice about to appear (and it doesn't), but it just reminds me of how exciting everything is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>>>

HA! Will I hope I didn’t permanently mar your perception of this music with my dumb voice! Just keep playing that track over and over, you’ll eventually burn my voice out of your head, I promise!

>>>in the track ''edoras'' as the fellowship enter edoras and aragorn looks up to see eowyn and as he looks again she is gone and there is a gong, is there a reason for this gong not being on the CR.>>>

The tam-tam (or gong) was performed here by Peter Jackson. It was recorded wild, and never actually a part of Shore’s original concept for this piece. Just something fun for Jackson to do, and a nice bit of PR for the sessions. Now certainly it didn’t hurt anything, but when the time came to reassemble the piece for the CR, Shore went back to his original composition, which did not include the tam-tam hit.

>>>Also could you further exaplain, cause i dont quite understand why that bit of music as frodo and sam come up the mountain, originally the title for TTT theatrical edition is not on the CR and instead the shire theme is there.>>>

Check the Annotated Score online, if you have a moment. The music you hear in the film is tracked. The music on the CD set is what Shore actually wrote and recorded.

>>>In regards to the "Rarities" disc that is being rumoured. I have info from some one "VERY reliable" that this will happen after the release of ROTK-CR.>>>

Are there spies in the midst? 

>>>1. I was trying to play one phrase from the Two Towers liner notes on my piano to identify a theme I couldn’t hear, but noticed a sign I’ve never seen before. It’s neither a treble nor bass clef, and I noticed it’s only for the viola (which might explain why I’ve never seen it before). What is the name of this clef (or whatever it is) and how would I read the notes for that line for piano? Is it comparable to the treble or bass clefs?>>>

The alto clef is a C clef, which means whatever line is between the two curves is always designated as C. (Bass clef, on the other hand in a F clef, treble is a G clef. You can get a much more detailed explanation here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clefs)

>>>2. Shore’s score is the first time I’ve encountered aleatoric writing, as Doug defined the musical style of the Watcher in the Water music. Would the cue from 2:18 (and more audibly 2:30) of ‘Night Camp’, and 2:40 and 3:20 of ‘The Dead Marshes’, and especially from the beginning (and mostly 0:40 to 1:36) of ‘Gandalf the White’, be other examples of aleatoric music? The opening 90 seconds of ‘Gandalf the White’ is one of my favorite moments. I’ve always loved the sound of an orchestra warming up, which seems at least superficially related to aleatoric music or what’s going on at these moments.>>>

Yes, those are both examples of aleatoric music. It’s all over the LOTR scores, actually, though I believe TTT features more of it than the other two.

>>>Is there a difference between aleatoric music, ‘tone clusters’, and ‘divisis’ (described on p. 42 of the Fellowship liner notes)?>>>

There are differences yes. In simplified terms, tone clusters simply apply to harmonies in which several stepwise pitches are sounded simultaneously. If you play the first five tones of a major scale simultaneously, you’ll have rich, bright a tone cluster. If you play the first five tones of a chromatic scale simultaneously, you’ll have a rather piercing, harsh tone cluster. It’s simply a different harmonic scheme, not triadic, not quartal, not quintal, etc.

Divisis are markings in written music that indicate a section is to divide itself in a non-traditional way. For example, if you asked the first violins to divide themselves four ways to perform a major seventh chord, you’d notate “div.” and indicate a divisi. Shore makes extensive use of divisis in his string writing, both using consonant harmony and dissonant harmony. This is how he achieves some of those thick, threatening sounds in the string sections (there are some spots where the celli and basses are divided 8 or even 12 ways to play a cluster)… as well as some of his very thick, richly sonorous major chords.

>>>3. The passage in ‘The Dead Marshes’ from 3:20 to 3:45 where the choir does…whatever they do. Man that would have been amazing to be present for the recording of this part. Some of the choir appear to be making sounds in this part that are not notes in the conventional sense, including whimpers, sighs, and so forth. Would Shore have been able to give direction in his musical notation of what he wanted, or does that kind of music need to be talked through, directed, and then conducted in person? Do professional choir members today receive vocal training in these kind of ‘extra-music’ sounds? Before the Complete Recordings when I watched the movie I assumed those sounds were part of the sound design of the film, not part of Shore’s composition.>>>

There are actually ways to notate this type of writing. You can see one method here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprechstimme

Anyone that is schooled in music today will have to tackle these Twentieth Century techniques, so it’s really just part of the standard training.

>>>4. Just as a comment, I’ve noticed that the presentation of the Ringwraith theme in ‘Wraiths on Wings’ is far more vicious and less majestic than in Fellowship. There was a dark beauty to the Ringwraith choir in Fellowship and one gets the impression Shore wanted the audience to identify with on some level, but here, the choir almost seems to be…achorally chanting the theme, instead of singing it (if ‘achoral’ makes any sense). The image that pops into my head is that the Wraiths got a severe tongue lashing from Sauron after they failed in Fellowship, and now gone is the beauty of their evilness. Now they’re just desperate to find the Ring and as a result, their musical presence is far more base and primitive.>>>

Yes! They’re also gaining in power. Look at the score of their writing in ROTK. As the hobbits get closer and closer to Mordor, they’re approach the seat of the Wraiths’ power.

>>>we at ColonneSonore.net have just published a new exclusive interview with Howard Shore, in which he talks about THE DEPARTED, the LOTR Complete Recordings and SOUL OF THE ULTIMATE NATION:>>>

Maurizio, I enjoyed your piece as always. Thanks so much for the kind words!

>>>As for "Fellowship" (and "Towers" and "Return" and as EE's too??) done with live orchestra. What a stunning idea! It will be an experience like no other! And what a feat it will be to get the orchestra to play pianissimo enough and for long stretches under the dialogue!!... Suggestion: it will have to be done a la Bayreuth with a hidden orchestra so the light spill does not effect the screen...>>>

This Fellowship performance may be coming up sooner than you think. Stay alert! 

>>>Do you know anything more about this? If so, do you know whether the score would be balanced against the sound effects and dialogue -- similar to say, the 20th Anniversary Premiere of E.T. -- or if it would be more of a FOTR-as-a-silent-film experience, perhaps with subtitles?>>>

I don’t know many more details other than there are negotiations under way right now, and, as I say, performances may begin sooner rather than later. I’d look very carefully at what Shore did with the Naked Lunch concerts to get an idea of what may transpire here.

>>>Good Lord! It looks like they're not actually carrying it any more, and it's only available from their partners. That is just weird as can be. Why would they no longer be carrying it themselves? Was this a limited release and they aren't getting it in any more? Or did they decide that at its overblown MSRP that not enough people were buying it to make carrying it worthwhile?

This whole TTT situation does not make sense.>>>

As Mr. TennisBall points out, yes, TTT has actually sold out! It’s barely been out of a month, but it’s already sold out, which I consider nothing short of amazing! There is another pressing under way now, and it’ll be available again in early January. So fear not. As always, no conspiracies, so scheming. You guys just bought them all! 

Ok, last update before a long winter’s nap… I believe that as of the beginning of this week, the deal is finally firmly in place for the LOTR book. If all goes according to plan, you should be able to hold this book (and its friendly plastic accoutrements) in your hands in 2007. So get ready, it’s gonna be a big year for the music of LOTR!

I’m going to go start taking vitamins now.

Happy new year, all. Thanks for your support, well wishes and insatiable interest over the past few months. Hope you’ll all be along for the ride in 2007. Here we go!

-Doug

Quote:

Hi everyone,

I can shed a little light here.

Arwen’s Song was originally written (by Howard Shore) around the time of The Two Towers. It was recorded well, well before the film was nearing a final edit. Nevertheless, back at this point Arwen’s departure from Rivendell, and subsequent vision, was a TTT scene, not an ROTK scene. (Remember, they had originally planned to stick Arwen into Helm’s Deep to ratchet up the excitement—a plan they wisely decided against.)

So the scene and the song were saved for ROTK. It was then decided that it didn’t work to have Arwen singing about her own situation… a little too meta and self-reflexive. So the piece was pulled, and replaced with the Fleming piece, which was written with the ROTK score proper.

Jump ahead now… the Sissel piece was written for the transition of post-battle Pelenor into the Houses of Healing scene in the ROTK Extended Edition. (Shore met Sissel in performances of the LOTR Symphony.) After this piece was written and recorded, it was decided that Arwen’s Song—which was STILL unused at this point—should be placed under Houses of Healing, so the Sissel piece was removed. Since it was a complete composition, and the only work featuring Sissel, Shore rescued the composition by placing it under the ROTK fan scroll.

So therefore, you ended up with Arwen’s Song written for TTT moved to the ROTK: EE, and the Sissel song written for ROTK: EE moved to the end credits. Only the Fleming piece remained where it was intended, though that, too, was obviously replacing the first appliance of Arwen’s Song.

In the long run, the order of the composition was:

Arwen (Tyler)
Flemming
Sissel

All works were composed by Shore. So where will everything be placed on the ROTK: CR? We’ll see, we’ll see…

More answers later… I’ll try to work my way backwards, though I’m a little light on sleep, so I may not be too speedy.

Happy new year, by the way!

-Doug

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In this instance, I can understand the confusion surrounding what seem to be Howard's comments on the DVD commentary. But if you listen closely, you can hear that HS' comments have been edited, with a few sentences cut for timing. It almost makes it seem that Fleming's singing is being heard in the Houses of Healing (of course, I don't know that anyone is going to confuse Tyler's singing with Fleming's, but...) His statement regarding "Twilight and Shadow" actually refers to what replaced Arwen's Song after it was pulled from Arwen's departure scene.

You should also understand that Arwen's Song went through several lyrics... some of which went on to be used in other compositions instead, some of which went totally unused. So when you hear one composition "becoming" another, this is what HS is referring to.

Anyway, the scenarios above are what happened. I was fortunate enough to be around and got to watch the proceedings firsthand at this point, so I can actually posit myself as more than an intermediary.

As for music for the Paths of the Dead, there is already a choral lyric related to this story element -- a choral text that, in production, was named "The Way is Shut."

Magpie, thanks as always for your kind words and your gentle nature. This website is better for your presence.

Back after coffee!

-Doug

Quote:

Hi everyone,

Yep, I’m still here, and yep we’re still full steam ahead. I’m sorry my posting has been so infrequent right now, just happened to be getting slammed with work at the moment.

The first edit of the ROTK discs is now done, tweaks are ongoing, I’m digging through liners, working through the book material and prepping multimedia material. Coupled with some projects of my own, February promises to be a little crazy, but survivable I’m quite sure.

Last Mimzy has been recorded and is just about ready to go. Shore worked with Roger Waters on a song for this one, a brief clip of which you can hear here:
http://newlinerecords.com/pages/mimzy/r ... player.htm

I promise I’ll try and backtrack and get to some questions as soon as I can come up for air.

Oh and that first edit of ROTK….

…AMAZING!!

-Doug