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Jude
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Posted: Tue 18 Oct , 2005 10:47 pm
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Estel, everything you described sounds like technical problems that can be corrected with training. Why not look into taking some lessons?

Just found out that the Royal Winnipeg Ballet has hired our chorus to do the choral part of Mahler's 2nd Symphony for their production of Dracula. This sounds intriguing - not sure how the music and story will fit together, and we probably won't get a view of the ballet from where we sing, but it should be an interesting production!

I love Mahler's 2nd - particularly the last movement, where the chorus comes in with their muted "Auferzehen, ja auferzehen!" and the whole piece builds and builds to such an exciting climax.

The performances are in Ottawa on 26, 27, 28 January 2006 - if anyone thinks they can make it here, PM me for details!

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Alatar
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Posted: Wed 19 Oct , 2005 8:56 am
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Are you then a professional Opera Singer Jude? Is it your primary job or do you have a "day job" also?

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truehobbit
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Posted: Wed 19 Oct , 2005 1:33 pm
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MaidenOfTheShieldarm wrote:
I finally got around to listening to Bach's Weihnachtsoratorium (which I know I'm misspelling) last night, and it was so beautiful!
The spelling is perfect! :D
(Which I think can't be said for Jude's "Auferzehen, ja auferzehen"? :scratch: ;) )

Glad you liked it - it's one of my favourites, too.
Last week at choir rehearsal, there were too few of us there to start working at something new, so we just did the choruses from the first and last cantata (we are performing those two at the Christmas concert anyway) - most people in the choir know these pretty well, so we could just sing them and postpone detailed work ;) - the first made us feel all Christmasy, and the last I just love because it kicks ass! :D

Alatar, I love opera very much, but it's definitely something you need to see live on stage, I think.

I love all kinds of vocal music, very hard to name favourite singers.

As to counter-tenors, the film "Farinelli" some years ago did for counter-tenors what "Amadeus" did for Mozart. :D

I've got a very interesting CD, called "Le Temps des Castrats" (EMI, and a number on it: 5 55054 2, not sure if that's something like the ISBN number) - it has recordings of 12 different counter-tenors, not all equally good, but great for getting an idea of who you like. And as a special bonus it has the only existing recording (if I understand the French index list correctly) of one of the last real castratos then living - I don't think it sounds great, but the recording dates from 1902, and the guy was old by that time, so I guess allowances need to be made. ;) :)

I've got quite a few counter-tenor CDs, I can post a list if you'd like. :)

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Jude
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Posted: Wed 19 Oct , 2005 2:38 pm
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Alatar wrote:
Are you then a professional Opera Singer Jude? Is it your primary job or do you have a "day job" also?
Not full time professional yet, but working on it! In the meantime I have a day job at the National Research Council.

Alessandro Moreschi, the last castrato, has a whole CD worth of recordings. I've heard it and - wow. Talk about culture shock. I wouldn't call it beautiful. But certainly not boring. :Q

Hobby, which of his recordings was included on your CD?

And all right then - what's the proper way to spell "auferzehen"? :D

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truehobbit
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Posted: Wed 19 Oct , 2005 3:20 pm
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Jude wrote:
Alessandro Moreschi, the last castrato, has a whole CD worth of recordings. I've heard it and - wow. Talk about culture shock. I wouldn't call it beautiful. But certainly not boring. :Q

Hobby, which of his recordings was included on your CD?
Oh cool - what other pieces were there?
The one on my CD is the "Crucifixus" from Rossini's Petite Messe Solennelle (interesting choice, isn't it?).
No, not beautiful, but I really think that's because of the age of both the singer and the recording. The voice sounds a bit instable, but I think you can nevertheless hear that it's quite a different kind of singing from what counter-tenors do, or am I imagining that?
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And all right then - what's the proper way to spell "auferzehen"? :D
I don't know - I can't tell what word that's supposed to be (and I don't know the piece ;) ). Maybe "auferstehen"? That's the only one that comes to mind that's similar.

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Jude
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Posted: Wed 19 Oct , 2005 3:31 pm
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truehobbit wrote:
Oh cool - what other pieces were there?
Here's a list of tracks on the CD

Here you can see a book with an actual photograph of him on the cover

No, you're not imagining it that it's a completely different kind of singing than counter-tenors. Singers that are performing music written for castrati would do well to listen to Moreschi's recordings for ideas.

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Nin
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Posted: Wed 19 Oct , 2005 4:10 pm
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Jude, your links work now for me and :Q .

It's funny, Hobby, you mention Farinelli. I don't think it reaches Amadeus, but the scene when he sings at the eclipse is stunning. They made his voice with a computer mixture of several male and female voices... It would be interesting to hear if you think, Jude, or anyone else who has more musical ear than me, if they came close to what castrati must have sounded like.

I'm sorry to insist, but as I won't see it any time soon - which recording of "Don Giovanni" could be recommended - as I just came back from Prague, where Mozart has finished this opera, I would really like to hear it...

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truehobbit
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Posted: Wed 19 Oct , 2005 4:15 pm
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Hey, there are sound samples for everything! Thanks! :D

Hmmh, I don't think they could get ideas from him! After all, he doesn't need to use falsetto, so it's a completely different technique. And as to interpretation - well, I think even though he's a castrato, his musical education would be 19th century, don't you think?

Also, he seems to be a soprano, and there are very few male soprano singers among modern counter-tenors.

At times, I think you can get a glimpse of how undefineable the voice is - it could be a woman or a boy or a man, all at once and nothing exclusively.

On the other hand, from the book I can see he was only 44 at the time of the recordings - I had thought he was older! So I don't think age is an excuse here. Hmmh, one wonders how close this is to a good castrato's life performance...

(So, is "auferstehen" the correct word?)

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truehobbit
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Posted: Wed 19 Oct , 2005 4:32 pm
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Sorry for forgetting about Giovanni, Nin - after all, it's my second favourite opera! :D

Hmmmh, which recording? Now that's difficult - there's a recording by George Solti, with Bryn Terfel as Giovanni, which might be good - I heard a live performance conducted by Solti once, and, boy, it had pepper in the blood, as you say. I don't know this recording, but if it's anywhere near as spicy as that live-performance, it should be great. And Terfel sounds hottt!!1, which is necessary for a Giovanni.

There's a discography here, and I must say the list of singers on some makes my mouth water - but it all depends on the tempi the conductor chooses and stuff like that, so I wouldn't buy any without listening into them.
Basically, I'd say, if you listen to some bits with Giovanni in them and want to get laid, you've got a recording that catches the spirit! ;) :D

(My own favourite recording is an old live recording from Cologne opera, not on the market and not the greatest recording quality, but great singers. I also have an LP with the 1955 Joseph Krips recording, which I seem to remember is quite nice, but I haven't listened to it for too long.)

Last edited by truehobbit on Wed 19 Oct , 2005 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Estel
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Posted: Wed 19 Oct , 2005 4:37 pm
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Nin - I love the recording my parents have of it, but I can't remember which one it is :oops:

The highest rated ones with the most helpful comments I see on Amazon.com are these (in order of highest stars given on Amazon)


1. Mozart - Don Giovanni with Wixell, Arroyo, Te Kanawa, Ganzarolli, Freni, van Allan, ROH and Sir Colin Davis


2. Mozart - Don Giovanni with Fischer-Dieskau, Fricsay


3. Mozart - Don Giovanni with Josef Krips, Anton Dermota, Cesare Siepi and the Wiener Philharmoniker



4.Mozart - Don Giovanni with Gilfry, Orgonasova, Margiono, James, Prégardien, D'Arcangelo and Gardiner



The rest of the copies I see are either highlights, rather than the full opera, or they don't have reviews. The recording with Kiri Te Kanawa is mentioned in many of the reviews of other recordings of the opera, as being the best, and I know she is an amazing singer so #1 is probably your best bet.

Hope that helps :)


Edit: and yes, I agree with TH - Bryn Terfel is h0tt!!1@ and a great singer :P

Last edited by Estel on Wed 19 Oct , 2005 4:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Nin
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Posted: Wed 19 Oct , 2005 4:37 pm
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Being married to a Jazz-freak, I don't know if Don Giovanni would have that effect... ;)

Thank you for the tip, though, I'll have a look.

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truehobbit
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Posted: Wed 19 Oct , 2005 4:42 pm
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Hey, my Krips/Siepi recording is number 3! :D

I really should use that old record player again!

Hehe, Nin - well, the idea is for you to get in the mood - he can listen to some jazz meanwhile, if that does the trick for him. ;) :D

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Nin
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Posted: Wed 19 Oct , 2005 4:51 pm
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Like I need something to get in the mood....

I saw there is a recording from the Prague National Theatre - and this is where we saw Rigoletto... will nostalgia take over musical aspects? I'll let you know.

(Estel, may I? :hug:)

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Jude
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Posted: Wed 19 Oct , 2005 5:37 pm
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Nin wrote:
It would be interesting to hear if you think, Jude, or anyone else who has more musical ear than me, if they came close to what castrati must have sounded like.
I've heard the recording, and I don't think it sounds anything like a real castrato would have sounded like. I think they would have gotten closer if they had blended a soprano with a tenor, rather than a countertenor. But bear in mind I'm only guessing, since I'm not 250 years old yet. :D

The Solti recording with Bryn Terfel has great singers on it, including Renée Fleming, Michele Pertusi, and Ann Murray - it's probably excellent.

Hobby - I looked it up and it's "Aufersteh'n". :oops:

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truehobbit
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Posted: Wed 19 Oct , 2005 5:57 pm
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I don't think they could have blended a soprano and a tenor - how would that work? And what would it achieve?

All they did was add the strength and height of the soprano to the male voice. The counter-tenor voice provided the slightly eerie quality of a voice that's at the same time a female voice that's not really feminine and a male voice that's not really manly - undefineable, just like I said Moreschi sounds like, only his voice does this more naturally - and, in spite of his weird instability, I think he does give you an idea of the natural height and strength a good castrato voice might have had. So, what we get in the Farinelli movie is a certainly non-female voice with more height and strength than any male falsetto voice could have - which, in theory, AFAIK, is what made the castrato voice special.
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Hobby - I looked it up and it's "Aufersteh'n".
:) Thanks - good to know! (It means "rise from the dead", btw. -
The only thing "auferzehen" could mean is: "on iron marriages" (auf erz-ehen) :P ;) )

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Iavas_Saar
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Posted: Sun 23 Oct , 2005 4:41 pm
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I suppose I will add my somewhat limited views on opera. Basically, Puccini is god, and everyone else isn't. :P

I just haven't been able to get into any opera that's not Puccini. There are other arias I like, but I can't sit down and listen to a complete opera unless it's Puccini.. and Mozart I find particularly over-rated. My favourite opera is Madame Butterfly - beautiful from beginning to end. The film version is a must if you like this opera:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005 ... ance&n=130

Also, if you like Gheorghiu, you should check out the recent film version of Tosca with her and Alagna. Not as good a film as Butterfly, but still nice:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BB ... d&v=glance

I've seen Butterfly twice on stage. I've also seen La Boheme twice, once was a small, outdoor concert with just 5 singers and a piano. I've also seen Turandot and Tosca, and a wonderful concert called "Puccini by candlelight". After Butterfly, Turandot would be next, then La Boheme then Tosca and La Rondine. La Rondine was not a successful opera, but I love the score, and have a great recording with Gheorghiu and Alagna.

Favourite singers.. Maria Callas, wow. Gheorghiu, obviously. Also Dawn Upshaw, has anyone listened to her? And, I am a big Sarah Brightman fan, though I know her classical voice is not nearly as good as true opera stars. For the guys, I don't have as much experience, but would mention Alagna and Bjorling.. and also Domingo, not for his voice, but I like him on stage, he is in several of the operas I have on DVD.

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Estel
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Posted: Sun 23 Oct , 2005 5:33 pm
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Iavas - I love Dawn Upshaw. The first time I ever heard her, she was singing Polish Composer Henryk Gorecki's "Symphony #3 - Sorrowful Songs". It's absolutely gorgeous, and her voice was perfect for it.

Speaking of that symphony, the words in the second movement were written by a girl on the walls of a Gestapo prison. It is heartbreaking, and yet stunningly beautiful.


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Iavas_Saar
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Posted: Sun 23 Oct , 2005 8:46 pm
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Quote:
Gorecki's "Symphony #3 - Sorrowful Songs"
One of my favourite pieces of music!! It's where I first heard Dawn too. :D

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Estel
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Posted: Sun 23 Oct , 2005 9:35 pm
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:D Do you own it? Cause I haven't bought it yet, and if you had an urge to bring it to the m77t... :whistle:



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Iavas_Saar
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Posted: Sun 23 Oct , 2005 10:55 pm
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I sure do. :D I own a Naxos recording of it too.

Actually, I didn't bring either of the original CDs over from England with me, because I'd already made a CD copy for Eru, and so could use that here. But, seeing as I'll be going home at Christmas and will be able to bring the original back with me then, I will have no more use for the copy. So, would you like to have it? :)

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