board77

Rodia wrote:

I knew there was something wrong with her. I was listening to that first song she does, about the worst pies in london, and it was just a slur of nothing. I was waiting for accents that never happened.

Yeah, that just didn't work. Really, it's a lot better than it sounded! That song is not made for her voice, which is actually true of almost everything in the show.

Quote:

BTW, given any more thought to that archaeological mischief?

You bet! We really do have to get back to work on that.

I read through the whole thread for the first time tonight, and I just have to say very belatedly that Alatar, you were brilliant!

Thanks Sharky.

Back to page one of the thread...

MaidenOfTheShieldarm wrote:

Dawn and *E*, the basic plot is that Sweeney Todd is a serial killing barber and his lover, Mrs Lovett, bakes the corpses into meat pies.

Lover? As in admirer or... lover..?

Nienor SharkAttack wrote:

MaidenOfTheShieldarm wrote:

Dawn and *E*, the basic plot is that Sweeney Todd is a serial killing barber and his lover, Mrs Lovett, bakes the corpses into meat pies.

Lover? As in admirer or... lover..?

Definitely the latter and probably the former. It could go either way, but she does say "A seaside wedding could be devised, me rumpled bedding legitimized" and if it's not true, she's definitely working on making it so.

Huh... I never got the feeling in the movie that they were - well - having sex. She's interested, he's not - like any girl wanting a guy she can't get. (Except for some wacko details. ) Anything in the stage version making it seem more like they are in fact actual lovers?

Well, there's more time to develop it on stage, but its normally left vague. Its not like you have a snogging scene between them.

I tried Wikipedia.

In the article about Mrs. Lovett, nothing is mentioned about her being Sweeney's lover, other than the information box on the right suddenly listing Spouse: Albert Lovett (deceased), Sweeney Todd (lover). But in the text it says that "She generally loves Sweeney Todd and is devoted to him, though he doesn't appear to notice, or acknowledge her affection at all."

In the Sweeney Todd article, it says that "...Mrs. Lovett, who is his partner in crime and variously his friend or lover", referring to all the different stories that exist.

To keep to the movie and musical, I did certainly not get the impression that they are lovers in the movie. As for the musical, I can't speak.

He seemed slightly more interested in her in the concert version at least, but not even sexually, he just didn't seem to be all up in his head like he is in the movie version. I never picked up on that rumpled bedding line that Mossy quoted, which sells their situation for me, to be honest.




*E*

It's possible that there was a physical side to their relationship, but I don't think that really matters to Mrs L compared to the emotional side which is what she really craves but can't get.

In the movie I think there's less chance there was even a physical side to it.

Well, she still says the "rumpled bedding" line.

Because it's in the song? I can't see that there's much/anything supporting it.

Alatar wrote:

Well, she still says the "rumpled bedding" line.

True, but it seems more likely it's part of her "dream" more than anything real. There's really no way to be sure of course..

Well, in the absence of a concrete "proof" we can believe what we will. For my part, yeah, he's shagging the arse off her. But what she wants is his affection, his undivided attention. For him, she's a pleasant distraction.

Quote:

For my part, yeah, he's shagging the arse off her.

What in the film would make you think this? (other than keeping the rumpled bedding line)

Sweeney Todd is about as non-sexual as you can get, for a character who had been married and is played by one Johnny Depp. I could probably count on one hand the amount of times he even looks at Mrs. Lovett or acknowledges much of what she's saying. Even in her fantasy, he is grossed out just by resting his hand on her knee. There is no chance they've had sex at all, let alone regularly, unless she's like riding him in his sleep. Sweeney Todd doesn't need distractions, he is fixated on one thing and one thing only.

But that is my interpretation of the film's relationship. I don't doubt now that the stage versions are meant to imply more went on between the two characters.



On another note, everyone should read this if they haven't already: The Real Sweeney Todd. I'm torn between suspicion, and wanting to believe it because of the source and well... it just seems like a story that could have happened in another time in another place.




*E*

What, apart from its green-ness, leads you to believe the grass is green?

Its categorically stated in a lyric.

But, again, I don't seperate the two. Its a film version of the stage play, they are the same characters, and those characters are having sex. The film may not demonstrate that in any obvious way, apart from, you know, saying they are...

Quote:

Its categorically stated in a lyric.

I don't think the lyric is categorical.. to me it could be interpreted as Mrs L thinking that if Todd did one day commit to a life by the sea, he would have softened enough for a physical relationship.

And I think you can separate stage and film versions.

Well, ask yourself this. If they have no physical relationship, doesn't the whole "By the Sea" song seem a little strange. She's saying, you know what I'd like, lets move to the sea together, and get married. Is that something you say to someone you don't have a relationship with? Sorry. You're stretching. Its obvious their relationship is at the point where she can discuss marriage as an option. That doesn't happen in platonic relationships.

Are you really suggesting that in the song she's saying, "We can go to Brighton, then you can start bonking me and then we can get married. Alright love?". No way. The song assumes a relationship or it makes no sense.

She wants to get married. He doesn't even want to touch her.




*E*