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Snobs who complain about American Idol

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Estel
Post subject: Snobs who complain about American Idol
Posted: Sun 27 Apr , 2008 3:44 pm
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I read someones blog recently where they were complaining about American Idol and that a show like that was forcing the quality in the music industry to go down. They were also making complaints about the singers on the show - stating that they weren't artists, but rather glorified kareoke singers and it didn't matter who did the singing.

I can kind of understand where they are coming from, but considering most classical and broadway singers don't write their own music, it kind of angered me, so I wrote a reply - not something I ever do off the board.

Here's their post and my reply:
American Idol Critic wrote:
American Idol
Posted Thu Apr 24 12:32pm PDT by Bob Lefsetz in The Lefsetz Letter
I saw Paul Stanley in the audience of American Idol.
What can I say, Felice is addicted, I heard the rumble from afar and when I went to retrieve her from the bedroom, I got hooked by the show too. I guess it's just instinct, we're all judges, we want to evaluate talent...and just maybe we want to be a member of the club. American Idol has the highest ratings of any weekly series, it's the most talked about show, its stars go on to have hit records...

Well, not so much anymore. Sure, Kelly Clarkson had some hits, but she was the first. And "Since U Been Gone" was a product of the Max Martin machine. Carrie Underwood is a star in the country world, she's the beneficiary of the best material in Nash Vegas...

Wait a minute here... Is this two-dimensional stardom, are these performers no more than cardboard?

The classic rockers were built on their own material. There were no song doctors. It was directly from their heart to yours. And this has delivered audiences in some cases 40 years after their debut. If you're just singing someone else's song, you're driving the BMW. Someone else can get inside and take the wheel instantly. Which is what happens in the evanescent pop world. Everybody today may not be a one hit wonder, but few have more than two or three hit tracks, and almost none of these acts can do respectable live business.

And we learned that TV exposure shortens careers. That was the lesson of MTV. If you're on, you're in everybody's household for a brief window, then you're discarded like a candy wrapper, the chocolate having been savored for an instant and then forgotten.

And what about the runners-up?

Sure, Daughtry has had hits. Interesting that he's a rocker, when so many of the winners are diva-wannabes... But can you name the other contestants who almost won? How about some of those who DID win, like Fantasia and Ruben Studdard?

It's a house of cards. A TV show. And TV is the number one mass medium in the history of the world. It can sell anything. Just ask Procter & Gamble. But even TV is faltering, in this permission marketing, multi-channel, Internet world. In other words, are we just mesmerized that ANYTHING can get this many eyeballs, this much traction in today's diverse cultural landscape?

It's not like these are artists. Hell, Carly Hennessy/Smithson already failed once. These are voices, doing the best karaoke job of all time. And in many cases, not that good.

Carly Smithson murdered "Superstar" on Tuesday night. I remember when I heard the original on the radio in the spring of 1970, before Webber and Rice went all Broadway on us, when they still employed rock singers and had credibility. The track was joyous, infectious. Carly evidenced none of these attractions. There was no CONTEXT!

Simon is a star. You just wait to hear what he says. Paula rivets you because you're waiting to see if she implodes on camera. Randy is sacrificing what credibility he had for a paycheck.

But it's not like Paula and Randy can have any success off this show. No one cares. It's just about the show.

Simon's smart enough to know it's not about his fame, it's about the dough. That TV delivers momentary record sales, that he can profit from.

Is this the game you're in? Earning a golden ticket to instant fame that will be taken away from you on your way to the 7-11, transforming you from a customer to an employee?

If you want to have a long career, write your own material. Be different, not the same. And don't go on television, it will shorten your tenure.

If you can't write, if you've got nothing to say, try out for American Idol. You might get a shot at momentary fame, but that's all it is, momentary.

As for Mr. Stanley... The people watching are not KISS fans, this is not bringing in dollars to your enterprise. People lose sight of the truth. The truth is that American Idol has got nothing to do with rock and roll, nothing to do with careers. Anybody can get on television, haven't you watched Survivor, or MTV or VH1? The PROGRAM is the star, not the talent. Never forget this.
And here is my reply:
My Reply wrote:
So someone who is only a singer doesn't count as an artist? Tell that to people like Maria Callas, Renée Fleming or Ruthie Henshall. You say " If you're just singing someone else's song, you're driving the BMW. Someone else can get inside and take the wheel instantly" but that's completely untrue. A singer is as much of an artist as a songwriter, simply with a different art. It's only within the last 40 years that that perception has changed.

Would a composer or songwriter who couldn't sing be considered any less? I don't think so. American Idol isn't ruining music. The lack of effort from people sitting back and complaining is what is doing it. Now, out of any time in music history, is when it is easy and possible to find an amazing array and amazing quality of music. All you have to do is get off your high horse, get on the computer and make an actual effort. There are some amazing singer-songwriters out there who have made the effort to put their stuff online. If you're willing to look for it, rather than sit back and accept what major record labels are giving you, then you'll find it. By taking what the major labels give you, you have to accept that you're taking what is considered to be acceptable to the majority.

Sometimes the commercial-pop-rock community can be such snobs that they can make the classical-opera community look like friendly puppies. Anyone in the music industry itself that complains about the quality of music going down is someone who is simply not doing their job. Get used to the new world - a place where people get become well known without a record label and you have to get online and find them.

Who knows what will be popular and well known in the future. I remember speaking to an older English man touring the U.S. on a harley who said that when he was a teenager, he listened to The Rolling Stones and The Who, and The Beatles were looked at by that type a listener the same way that people nowadays look at a boyband. Look where the Beatles have ended up. Look at Bach - a man known more as an organist in his time, who was buried in an unmarked grave even though he had worked for the Church as a composer for most of his life.

The same people always complain - there wasn't any good music in the 80's that will be remembered decades from then, yet know, there are recoginzed classic bands from that time like U2. There wasn't any good music the 90's, yet we're still listening to early Red Hot Chili Peppers and exclaiming what a classic that music has become.

By complaining about AI, saying that music is going downhill and talking about the people in the music industry that agree with you, you're not showing how well cultured you are about music and how much you know. You're just showing yourself for a snob who is too lazy to do some research and too full of yourself to admit that you're anything but a couch critic.

The singers on AI might not be the best, but they work hard - they deserve some respect.

I know I could've worded it better and made a stronger argument with less flaming language, but there was a limited amount of words I could use, and I'd already used them all with that post.

I have been thoroughly enjoying American Idol this year, and I was unhappy when Carly got kicked off simply because she was actually a little bit different. She had stage presence and looked as though she was having fun.

I'm not proud of it, but I do consider myself a bit of a music snob. Dismissing someone as an artist, however, simply because they don't actually write the music they're playing is something I can't stand. Under that thought process, people like Emmanuel Ax, Itzhak Perlman, Victoria de los Ángeles, etc, could be dismissed because the majority of the time, they are "only" musicians.

Anyway - what are your thoughts on the whole thing?


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yovargas
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Posted: Sun 27 Apr , 2008 4:06 pm
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My thoughts? I loathe AI and pretty much agree with the 1st comment. The entire premise of the show, from the title on down, is about fame not art. That's why these people aren't artists and that's why the show is horrible for music lovers. It turns music into cheap tabloid entertainment. Which is why almost all of them have 15 minutes of fame before the public moves on and has forgotten them.


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Eruname
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Posted: Sun 27 Apr , 2008 5:44 pm
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yovargas wrote:
The entire premise of the show, from the title on down, is about fame not art.
Good point.

I loathe the show to and think pretty much everyone on there are crap singers. I admit I'm a music snob.

But you do have a point about classical singers not writing their own music, but we expect pop singers to do so. I'm not sure why that is. Maybe because generally classical music is such a higher calibre and generally takes someone devoted to composing then another person devoted to performing to pull off the performance? I don't know, just musing. I do know it takes plenty of time to compose a classical piece, and then years of studying voice to be a good singer and people who can do both at a professional level are extremely rare.

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Estel
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Posted: Sun 27 Apr , 2008 7:58 pm
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Perhaps it is about fame, but I don't agree that any of the singers who go on there are only after that. Maybe if the lead singer in one of my favorite ever bands, The Stokens, had been able to go on a show like AI, the band would've actually made it. Instead, they stuck together for more than 10 years, writing and performing brilliant music and doing everything they could to make it in the music world, being scouted a few times, signing up with a small time music label, but one that didn't make the effort for them, and eventually giving up. By what you're saying, if they had used American Idol, everything that they did before would have been worth shit and they would be nothing but fame hungry people lacking credibility and couldn't be considered artists.

Kind of the same thing that Daughtry did, and now his band actually has some success. God forbid he did it by going through the American Idol route. I think it's actually admirable that he took the show and used it to his advantage. There's plenty of singers, songwriters, bandmembers who audition for the show, and I don't think it takes away from their credibility as artists that they're willing to use a system that will give them exposure that they couldn't get any other way.

Gandalfstormcrow auditioned for AI a few times, yet you would say that he was just fame hungry, lacking in credibility and not a true artist. I wouldn't say that about Stormy - not at all.

The chic who almost won, not last year but the year before - Katherine McPhee - she went to one of the best music conservatories in the U.S. and had extensive vocal training. The problem was, she didn't use AI but rather, let it use her.


This general attitude towards American Idol is one that I held as well a few years ago when I was a bit more of a snob than I am now. I've been thinking about it a lot since I started actually watching the show, rather than knowing about it in passing, and I've had to change my mind. On the surface, the show is about momentary fame, but that's only if the people on the show let it use them. If they use it, they can turn that momentary fame to their advantage.

Some of these people on it have been getting voice training. Some have been in bands. Some do write their own music. They definitely work their asses off whilst they're actually on the show. It's one of the few things that pisses me off about the show anymore, actually. Every year during the last couple of weeks, we watch the singers voices get worse and worse and worse, and you know that whoever their voice coaches are, they aren't worth shit because these kids are practicing way to much and are well on their way to getting a vocal node or just plain vocal strain.

No, not for a minute do I believe that AI accepts the best of the best singers that audition - they go for a range every year that they think will make the show more interesting to the audience. That doesn't mean, however, that everybody who auditions for the show is lacking in credibility or artistry. It doesn't mean that every single person on the show is lacking in those things. It doesn't mean that every single singer on the show is a bad singer.


I don't have a problem with people saying that it's about the show and it's about the show itself being famous - that's true.

I do have a problem with people saying that the show is causing the quality of music in the music industry to go down. That's complete BS, especially now with so many people and their music being accessible online.

I do have a problem with people saying that everybody on the show or who auditions for the show are only in it for fame and money. Some of them do have an honest love and appreciation for music, are talented, and are just looking for a way to get past the system so they can have some modicum of success.


I always knew that you were more of a music snob than me yova ;)

Thing is, I'm glad I'm not a snob anymore when it comes to this. It means I can sit back and enjoy it, and still enjoy my rare little finds online as well.


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yovargas
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Posted: Sun 27 Apr , 2008 8:08 pm
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Who in the world said every person on their is a talentless fame-grubbing whore? :scratch:


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Estel
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Posted: Sun 27 Apr , 2008 8:21 pm
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Combination of what you said about the people on the show not being artists, the show being completely about fame, Eru's comment on how much more effort it takes to be a classical music artist, and me reading more into things than needs to be there.

I'm PMSing and tired - please forgive ;) :hug:


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Dave_LF
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Posted: Sun 27 Apr , 2008 11:13 pm
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Ugh. AI pushes all my buttons. If someone deliberately set out to design a show that would offend me on as many different levels as possible, they could scarcely have done better.


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Dave_LF
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Posted: Mon 28 Apr , 2008 1:30 pm
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I've given this some more thought and tried to figure out exactly why AI bothers me so much. It isn't because I'm a music snob--I don't care enough about music to be a snob about it--instead it's:

1: Celebrity worship and the cult of the personality. You don't need to look any further than the title for this.
2: Anti-individualism. This is inherent in celebrity worship, but is made even worse in this case since the whole point of the competition is to imitate someone else.
3: Image above substance. 'Nuff said.
4: The philosophy of wealth that says money is something an authority awards to you for being cool and popular (i.e. having the right image), rather than a natural consequence of doing productive work. You could say this about any game show to some extent, but it seems especially egregious in AI both because of the emphasis on image and because unlike (say) Wheel of Fortune, neither the audience nor contestants treat the proceeding like they're just a game. It has much in common with professional sports in that regard. And on that note...
5: The fact that pop musician rivals actor and professional athlete in the content for the most grossly overpaid profession of all time.


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MariaHobbit
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Posted: Mon 28 Apr , 2008 3:23 pm
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American Idol does not exist for me. If I hadn't happened to see my daughter watching it once, I wouldn't even know what it was. As it is, the 2 minutes I saw of it convinced me that there was no sci fi and nothing supernatural, and therefore of no interest to me.

Aren't I boring? :P

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Lidless
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Posted: Mon 28 Apr , 2008 8:25 pm
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There have been many versions of the talent show in the past, but this was a fresh concept. The first half of the series has an air of looking at the village idiot, and the second half a knock out competition of better talent.

And boy has that been repeating now endlessly. Got Talent, So You Think You Can Dance? and now the Broadway / West End roles.

All were good fun in the beginning, but now I tire somewhat of it. What was fascinating in the early series were the characters - you actually cared for the contestants, but you know, after you've seen the hundredth teary-eyed person saying, "I'm doing it for my (father / mother / aunt / uncle / brother / sister / husband / wife / hamster *delete as appropriate*) who passed away (*enter period between yesterday and two years ago*), you get numb.

In an interview with Anderson Cooper on 60 Minutes last year, Simon Cowell openly declared that the underlying primary purpose of the Idol franchise (including American Idol) was for 19 Entertainment (the parent corporation that produces the Idol TV shows) to discover new singing talent that can be signed to recording agreements that the corporation maintains with a major record company (Sony/BMG), and benefit from the record sales of contestants and winners who are exposed to the worldwide marketplace through the TV shows.

Cowell indicated that revenue from recordings by performers associated with the Idol franchise has already exceeded US $100 million around the world. 19 Entertainment also retains exclusive right of refusal for management and merchandising of any contestant. Exercising management rights is at the sole discretion of 19 Entertainment; in the alternative the contestant performer is free to pursue his or her own career.

Interestingly enough, Simon Cowell was very vocally against the concept of the original British show that kicked the whole thing off: Pop Idol. He wasn't a judge on it and complained it took away the mystique of how a popstar was 'made'.

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Posted: Mon 28 Apr , 2008 8:58 pm
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Unsurprisingly, I'm much more a fan of the West End searches for a Maria, Joseph or Nancy. I think the crucial difference is that they're offering an actual career as opposed to 60 seconds of fame, and that they have a vested interest in getting a genuine talent who can bring in the punters while also delivering 8 shows a week. The talent tends to be of a better "quality" than the usual pop fare also.

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ToshoftheWuffingas
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Posted: Mon 28 Apr , 2008 9:30 pm
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I don't watch the UK talent shows except in passing. There's nothing wrong with attempting to discover talent though I dislike the production values that now demands cruelty to poor quality contestants. There is a depressing level of copying formulaic ideas.
My bigger beef with them is that the music industry representatives don't want originality but malleable youngsters for the recording industry sausage machine. There is talent but it is being wasted or ignored.

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Lidless
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Posted: Tue 29 Apr , 2008 12:54 am
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ToshoftheWuffingas wrote:
There is talent but it is being wasted or ignored.
Fair comment, but without these programmes it would be wasted or ignored as well. Ultimately such programmes make us believe that our talents can short-circuit the congested-artery Establishment.

And that is a valuable thing.

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Wolfgangbos
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Posted: Tue 29 Apr , 2008 6:21 pm
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People still watch television? :Q


*wanders off to play more World of Warcraft*

:cheers:

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Posted: Tue 29 Apr , 2008 6:26 pm
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People still play World of Warcraft? :Q

*wanders off to play more Lord of the Rings Online*

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Pippin4242
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Posted: Tue 29 Apr , 2008 6:56 pm
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People still play Lord of the Rings Online? :Q

*wanders off to wank*

Last edited by Pippin4242 on Tue 29 Apr , 2008 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Wolfgangbos
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Posted: Tue 29 Apr , 2008 6:59 pm
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People still wank? :Q

*wanders off to purchase a $5,000 hooker*

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ToshoftheWuffingas
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Posted: Tue 29 Apr , 2008 7:16 pm
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People still purchase $5000 hookers? :Q

*wanders off to buy a sub-prime mortgage*

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Nienor SharkAttack
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People still spam? :Q

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Lidless
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Posted: Tue 29 Apr , 2008 8:41 pm
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People still post on B77? :Q

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