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Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Singers

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Holbytla
Post subject: Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Singers
Posted: Fri 21 Nov , 2008 1:34 am
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Yeah well the people at Rolling Stone are at it again with another list. Which of course is subjective and usually leads to
whaaaaaaaat????

For starters I would have had Smokey Robinson up way higher than #20. I may have even put him at #1.
Aretha is great, but just not #1.
Mary J. Blige at #100. No way. Not even at #200.

Anyway here is the list and the link in case you want to poke your eyes out.

The 100 Greatest Singers of All Time

1 | Aretha Franklin by Mary J. Blige

2 | Ray Charles by Billy Joel

3 | Elvis Presley by Robert Plant

4 | Sam Cooke by Van Morrison

5 | John Lennon by Jackson Browne

6 | Marvin Gaye by Alicia Keys

7 | Bob Dylan by Bono

8 | Otis Redding by Booker T. Jones

9 | Stevie Wonder by Cee-Lo

10 | James Brown by Iggy Pop

11 | Paul McCartney

12 | Little Richard

13 | Roy Orbison

14 | Al Green

15 | Robert Plant

16 | Mick Jagger by Lenny Kravitz

17 | Tina Turner

18 | Freddie Mercury

19 | Bob Marley

20 | Smokey Robinson

21 | Johnny Cash

22 | Etta James

23 | David Bowie

24 | Van Morrison

25 | Michael Jackson by Patrick Stump of Fall Out Boy

26 | Jackie Wilson

27 | Hank Williams

28 | Janis Joplin

29 | Nina Simone

30 | Prince

31 | Howlin' Wolf

32 | Bono by Billie Joe Armstrong

33 | Steve Winwood

34 | Whitney Houston

35 | Dusty Springfield

36 | Bruce Springsteen

37 | Neil Young

38 | Elton John

39 | Jeff Buckley by Chris Cornell

40 | Curtis Mayfield

41 | Chuck Berry

42 | Joni Mitchell

43 | George Jones by James Taylor

44 | Bobby "Blue" Bland

45 | Kurt Cobain

46 | Patsy Cline

47 | Jim Morrison

48 | Buddy Holly

49 | Donny Hathaway

50 | Bonnie Raitt

51 | Gladys Knight

52 | Brian Wilson

53 | Muddy Waters by Ben Harper

54 | Luther Vandross

55 | Paul Rodgers

56 | Mavis Staples

57 | Eric Burdon

58 | Christina Aguilera

59 | Rod Stewart

60 | Björk

61 | Roger Daltrey

62 | Lou Reed

63 | Dion

64 | Axl Rose

65 | David Ruffin

66 | Thom Yorke

67 | Jerry Lee Lewis

68 | Wilson Pickett

69 | Ronnie Spector

70 | Gregg Allman

71 | Toots HIbbert

72 | John Fogerty

73 | Dolly Parton

74 | James Taylor

75 | Iggy Pop

76 | Steve Perry

77 | Merle Haggard

78 | Sly Stone

79 | Mariah Carey

80 | Frankie Valli

81 | John Lee Hooker by Bonnie Raitt

82 | Tom Waits

83 | Patti Smith

84 | Darlene Love

85 | Sam Moore

86 | Art Garfunkel

87 | Don Henley

88 | Willie Nelson

89 | Solomon Burke

90 | The Everly Brothers

91 | Levon Helm by Jim James

92 | Morrissey

93 | Annie Lennox

94 | Karen Carpenter

95 | Patti LaBelle

96 | B.B. King

97 | Joe Cocker

98 | Stevie Nicks

99 | Steven Tyler

100 | Mary J. Blige


http://www.rollingstone.com/news/covers ... 2/page/103" target="_blank" target="_blank

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Dawnnamira
Post subject: Re: Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Singers
Posted: Fri 21 Nov , 2008 1:55 am
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MJ at #25?

Above Bruce?

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I shouldn't have even looked... :doh1: ;)

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The OG Borry
Post subject: Re: Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Singers
Posted: Fri 21 Nov , 2008 6:19 am
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Why are some of them "by" others...I'm not comprehending here. :scratch:
Borry

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Alatar
Post subject: Re: Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Singers
Posted: Fri 21 Nov , 2008 9:41 am
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Freddie Mercury should be Top 10 at least, if not top 5.

Kurt Cobain shouldn't even be on the list. He was a great artist, but he wasn't a singer. Neither is Bruce for that matter...

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Holbytla
Post subject: Re: Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Singers
Posted: Sat 22 Nov , 2008 2:09 am
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The OG Borry wrote:
Why are some of them "by" others...I'm not comprehending here. :scratch:
Borry
There is a blurb written about each singer and when it has "by" next to it, that blurb was written by that person.
John Lennon blurb written by Jackson Browne etc.

I could easily rearrange the whole list as my taste differs somewhat from the authors'. They seem to be Motown and "distictively" swayed. While I like both, I wouldn't lean so heavily in that direction.

I was wondering if anyone felt there were any glaring ommissions. I don't see how Burton Cummings was left off of the list

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yovargas
Post subject: Re: Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Singers
Posted: Sat 22 Nov , 2008 3:35 pm
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Alatar wrote:
Kurt Cobain shouldn't even be on the list. He was a great artist, but he wasn't a singer.
See....while I'm not gonna argue for or against his specific inclusion, I think this misses the point. Cuz, yeah, I know that in terms of objective, technical skills, surely he didn't have things like perfect pitch or a great range ect. But that shouldn't be what makes a singer "great" - it's about how expressive their voice can be. And I think there is a pretty strong argument that Kurt had an ability to express a certain range of emotions better than just about anybody. There have been lots and lots and lots of imitators since he showed up, guys who tried to sing how Kurt sung and express what Kurt could express and, by and large, none of them hold a candle to Mr. Cobain. So, yeah, Kurt Cobain couldn't hit those crazy high notes that a Freddy Mercury could. Kurt Cobain couldn't sing what Freddy Mercury sung. But Freddy Mercury couldn't sing what Kurt Cobain sung either.

That said - Thom Yorke (of Radiohead) should be top 5 not sixtywhatever, therefore the whole list is useless to me. :Wooper:


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Alatar
Post subject: Re: Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Singers
Posted: Sat 22 Nov , 2008 5:19 pm
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Sorry, yov, but what you're talking about is entertaining. Singing IS about things like pitch and range. Kurt Cobain was a gifted songwriter and entertainer. He wasn't a good singer. In fact you might say he was a superb entertainer in spite of his singing voice. The same can be said of people like Springsteen, Cohen and Dylan. None of them are great singers, and none of them would claim to be. What they are is great entertainers and great performers.

Describing Cobain as a good singer is like describing blue as a really nice shade of red.

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yovargas
Post subject: Re: Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Singers
Posted: Sat 22 Nov , 2008 9:06 pm
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No, it's more like describing Pollock as a great painter. :)


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vison
Post subject: Re: Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Singers
Posted: Sat 22 Nov , 2008 9:14 pm
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Glad to see Sam Cooke near the top. What a beautiful voice he had. Likewise Hank Williams.
I would take a lot of names off, beginning with Van Morrison.
Much as I love Neil Young, he belongs in the "non singer" category with those other guys, including David Bowie. Do you know, I have never, to my knowledge, heard Kurt Cobain sing. I have heard ABOUT him, but never heard him.
Etta James had one brilliant song and like I always do, I bought a whole stupid CD of crap just for that one song.
Janis Joplin? Not sure I'd call her a singer, but I loved her.

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yovargas
Post subject: Re: Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Singers
Posted: Sat 22 Nov , 2008 9:25 pm
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Well, jeez, vison, you should at least give the man a shot. Here's a lovely, low-key performance by Cobain:



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vison
Post subject: Re: Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Singers
Posted: Sat 22 Nov , 2008 9:30 pm
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I would, but when I click on the link, it says the video is no longer available.

I'll scope it out later.

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Alatar
Post subject: Re: Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Singers
Posted: Sat 22 Nov , 2008 11:37 pm
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I'm starting to understand how Cerin feels about the word marriage. I never thought that would happen. The fact is that (to me) there's no debate on this. You CANNOT be a great singer without having a great voice. Its not subjective. A great voice can be measured. A great performance can't. You can be a great performer without a great voice, but you can't be a great singer.

Also, its not just about hitting notes and vocal dexterity. A former musical mentor of mine used to say "He has a great voice, but its a pity he can't sing". A great singer has it all. The notes, the range, the performance, the ability to connect. You can't be a great singer if you don't have all of those. You can be a great performer. Even a great artist. But you can't be a great singer.

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Holbytla
Post subject: Re: Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Singers
Posted: Sat 22 Nov , 2008 11:42 pm
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Tonal quality is subjective though. Some people cannot stand the sound of Janis Joplin.

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yovargas
Post subject: Re: Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Singers
Posted: Sun 23 Nov , 2008 12:01 am
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Alatar wrote:
Its not subjective. A great voice can be measured.
Disagreed. And even if we were to agree to define what makes a "great voice" as those objectively measurable things, I would still argue that a having a "great voice" does not make you a great singer. Perfect technical skills won't make me want to listen to you. It is about beauty or power, not pitch ect. Some of the voices that are, to me, the most beautiful and moving would probably drive you up the wall. That doesn't make their singing any less great, it just means beauty is a subjective thing.


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vison
Post subject: Re: Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Singers
Posted: Sun 23 Nov , 2008 1:28 am
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Alatar wrote:
I'm starting to understand how Cerin feels about the word marriage. I never thought that would happen. The fact is that (to me) there's no debate on this. You CANNOT be a great singer without having a great voice. Its not subjective. A great voice can be measured. A great performance can't. You can be a great performer without a great voice, but you can't be a great singer.

Also, its not just about hitting notes and vocal dexterity. A former musical mentor of mine used to say "He has a great voice, but its a pity he can't sing". A great singer has it all. The notes, the range, the performance, the ability to connect. You can't be a great singer if you don't have all of those. You can be a great performer. Even a great artist. But you can't be a great singer.
I think I agree with this, Alatar. I mean, I "like" some of the singers on that list, but I don't think they are necessarily "great singers". I think Pavarotti was a great singer, but the Spanish guy, Placido Domingo? Was that him? I thought his voice was, hm, what's the word, technically correct but not "musical". Cold, no feeling. Whereas Pavarotti's voice melted your bones.

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Donernilwen
Post subject: Re: Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Singers
Posted: Sun 23 Nov , 2008 6:34 am
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I don't really have much time or engery before bed to go in depth, but I agree with Yov on this one.
Of course it is all really subjective, but I just thought that was a given. :shrug:


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*E*V*E*N*S*T*A*R*
Post subject: Re: Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Singers
Posted: Sun 23 Nov , 2008 6:54 am
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yovargas wrote:
Perfect technical skills won't make me want to listen to you.
Seriously.




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yovargas
Post subject: Re: Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Singers
Posted: Sun 23 Nov , 2008 2:42 pm
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WTF *E*??????????????????
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Alatar
Post subject: Re: Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Singers
Posted: Sun 23 Nov , 2008 4:29 pm
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Alatar wrote:
You CANNOT be a great singer without having a great voice. Its not subjective. A great voice can be measured. A great performance can't. You can be a great performer without a great voice, but you can't be a great singer.
I feel like I'm labouring the point here, but you're ignoring what I'm saying. You can perform really well without a great voice. You just can't sing very well without one. You're confusing "singing" with "performing". This doesn't mean you have to like everyone who has a good voice. That part is subjective. The quality of the voice isn't. Of course we all have favourites. The problem starts when you say "I like his voice, so he's a good singer". He's a good performer, maybe.

I don't think its any great surprise that the vast majority of lead vocalists who don't have good singing voices are the songwriters. Its because those songwriters would never get a gig on their vocal talents alone.

Just to clarify further. I love many artists who don't have good voices. Mark Knopfler of Dire Straits has no voice to speak of, but I adore his music and, yes, his singing. I just don't pretend that means he's a good singer.

Likewise, I personally don't particularly enjoy Placido Domingo, but there's no question that he's a good singer
yovargas wrote:
I would still argue that a having a "great voice" does not make you a great singer.
And I never said that it did. I said you can't be a great singer without a great voice. There's plenty of people with great voices who can't sing.

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yovargas
Post subject: Re: Rolling Stone's 100 Greatest Singers
Posted: Sun 23 Nov , 2008 7:17 pm
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There's probably no point in continuing this mini-debate but I don't really see how one could disagree with either of these statements:
A great singer is one who sings beautifully*.
Beauty is subjective.

Put those two together and you get why a Cobain or a Dylan rightfully belong on a list like this.


* I'm using "beautifully" in the very broad sense of aesthetically pleasing in some way


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