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Iavas_Saar
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 7:00 pm
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I agree with you. Miss Saigon can vary a lot from performance to performance. I've only seen Les Mis once (perhaps because it doesn't particularly depend on performance). I have both Miss Saigon recordings, but had the Symphonic version for several years before getting the OCR, so it's the one I'm very familiar with. I believe it's better, but can't recall the OCR that well so I'm not sure by how much.

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eärendil
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Posted: Mon 17 Apr , 2006 8:03 pm
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I know this thread hasn't been used much for a while, and when we had the month for musicals many discussions went on...

Back then I had said I would love to see Les Mis for my Bday... It was not on Broadway this year. There still was lots to see: Wicked, Phantom of the Opera, Chicago, Lestat, The Producers...

I finally chose to see Rent; last year in my show we sang Seasons of love and I also knew from my many nights in a karaoke club You're what you own. I love both songs; I also knew the story and that a movie was made last year about it (which I haven't seen btw).

It was AMAZING :love: :love: :love: :love: ... I don't have enough words to say how I felt. One of the best moments in my life really... And a perfect way to turn 25 :D :D . It had been a while since I last cried when seeing a show; I did. Passed through many emotions and I loved that it created so much. I am so glad...

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Alatar
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Posted: Tue 18 Apr , 2006 2:38 pm
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Thats great! Just saw the movie version myself. Different to the stage show, but great also.

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TheMary
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Posted: Thu 20 Apr , 2006 4:30 pm
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I saw Rent on stage two weekends ago before seeing the movie and I'm pretty sure it's the best musical I've seen since Wicked. I can't get the music outta my head. There was even an Angel look alike in the audience (her Christmas get up) tights and all. I really loved how everyone was involved in the music and the harmony that was created during the songs. :love:

The movie was good especially if you don't know what Rent is about it flows more smoothly than the play. I cried three times during the movie and only once during the play.

The cry factor is very important to me. Most musicals make me cry, I get really involved for some reason.

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Thu 20 Apr , 2006 4:45 pm
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What's with the rise in movie musicals lately? Legally Blond is supposed to becoming to Broadway, as is Get Shorty (an awful movie), Lord of the Rings opened in Toronto recently, and one that is out now in NYC: The Wedding Singer. This one does not resemble the movie except for the basic story. The music is that campy Broadway style (which personally I dislike).

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MaidenOfTheShieldarm
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Posted: Wed 26 Apr , 2006 3:36 am
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Rent is amazing. It's so fluid and very emotional. I almost started crying during the end of Goodbye Love . . . hadn't realised that Mimi was singing to someone who wasn't even there. :bawl: Actually, that song makes me sad anyway, as does Without You. I'd really like to go see it again.
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What's with the rise in movie musicals lately? Legally Blond is supposed to becoming to Broadway, as is Get Shorty (an awful movie), Lord of the Rings opened in Toronto recently, and one that is out now in NYC: The Wedding Singer. This one does not resemble the movie except for the basic story. The music is that campy Broadway style (which personally I dislike).
I've been wondering that, too! I'm not entirely sure I approve . . . they're making musicals out of really weird source material. Maybe they'll be good, it's possible . . . but I'm skeptical.

There are so few original musicals on Broadway right now . . . it seems like everything except Spelling Bee (which is wonderful in all ways) and Avenue Q (which is semi-derived from Sesame Street) is from a movie or a book. (Not a criticism, just a comment.)

Just curious . . . do any of you know The Last Five Years?

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Wed 26 Apr , 2006 4:08 am
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Never heard of it. I forgot to add that Spamalot is a stage adaptation of a movie as well. I hear it's really funny, but I don't approve on principle. Holy Grail need not be remade into a broadway musical.

The number of musicals out there are one of the reasons I'm glad I don't work on Broadway. The money is better than off-broadway, but there is some about musicals that I think make the theatre only a little more than a concert where you learn little about the human condition (which is what a play should do-- teach you something about the human condition). Obviously, my disapproval doesn't extend to every musical because I'd be anecdotally wrong to be an absolutist about this.

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MaidenOfTheShieldarm
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Posted: Wed 26 Apr , 2006 4:25 am
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Holy Grail didn't need to be remade, but Spamalot is very funny and true to the Pythonian spirit.
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there is some[thing?] about musicals that I think make the theatre only a little more than a concert where you learn little about the human condition (which is what a play should do-- teach you something about the human condition). Obviously, my disapproval doesn't extend to every musical because I'd be anecdotally wrong to be an absolutist about this.
If musicals fulfill what a play should do (and I agree with you about that), why don't you like them? I'm sure I'm being obtuse here, but if they teach you something about the human condition . . . Is it how its done, (too much spectacle?), the music, the form, the lack of a (good) book? I'm just a bit confused about what you're saying.

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Wed 26 Apr , 2006 4:47 am
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I'm kept away by what I view as their cheesiness factor (too much spectacle) which I don't think teaches you anything about the human condition-- the same way an afterschool special isn't really teaching you much.

I'm a minimalist when it comes to theatre, though. I think less spectacle allows for more focus on what's being said.

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MaidenOfTheShieldarm
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Posted: Wed 26 Apr , 2006 5:08 am
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Ah, I would agree with that. I love musical theatre (obviously) and I love watching the shows, but I find generally find straight shows more intellectually interesting to think about and read. I've been reading a lot of Tom Stoppard along with all of the plays for my Art of the Play class lately and his plays are just fascinating. (Have I used 'play' enough in one sentence? :roll:) The way language is used and the dynamics of action and character . . . it's really neat stuff.

That said, I do think that the lyrics often have a lot more to them than the spectacle of the show would have you believe. You're so right about spectacle, though. Like in Phantom, the thing everyone remembers is not the tragic story about someone who was cast away from the world because he looked rather bizarre, but the chandelier crashing. Not always, of course -- a lot of musicals are just for giggles, but some of them have real depth that the glitter hides all too well. The Last Five Years, for instance, is very simple, has gorgeous music (my favourite OCR ever), and has these amazing lyrics. I'm seriously biased here, as it also has two of my favourites actors currently working, but I honestly think it's an excellent show.

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Wed 26 Apr , 2006 6:42 am
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I agree with you there. The lyrics definitely offer the lessons, but the spectacle might overshadow them which is unfortunate.

On a side note, did you know in some theatres they had to helicopter the chandelier in because it would fit through the door? They cut a door into the ceiling to be able to do this if necessary. If the chandelier fits through the door, they use a crane.

Also, Tom Stoppard is one of the best playwrights ever. He is my second favorite to Harold Pinter. Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead, The Real Inspector Hound, Travesties, A Real Thing, Dogs Hamlet and Cahoots MacBeth are all amazing plays by him which I own.

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MaidenOfTheShieldarm
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Posted: Wed 26 Apr , 2006 7:12 am
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TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
On a side note, did you know in some theatres they had to helicopter the chandelier in because it would fit through the door? They cut a door into the ceiling to be able to do this if necessary. If the chandelier fits through the door, they use a crane.
That's ridiculous! I had known that theaters had to be "Phantomized" but that's too much. Talk about spectacle. :roll:
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Also, Tom Stoppard is one of the best playwrights ever.
I couldn't agree more. Rosecrantz and Guildenstern is amazing, and Travesties, Inspector Hound, and A Real Thing are all around here somewhere waiting to be read. I'm currently reading Every Good Boy Deserves Favour and Arcadia, the latter of which is for my final for Art of the Play. I'd really like to do one of his when I get around to directing in a few years. I haven't read Harold Pinter, but he's now on the list for my next trip to the library. Richard Greenberg's work, as far as I've read, is also intriguing, especially The Author's Voice. The characters are so mundane yet so very bizarre.

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Wed 26 Apr , 2006 3:50 pm
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Check out Edward Albee also if you like Stoppard. Zoo Story is one of his famous ones.

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Posted: Wed 26 Apr , 2006 4:12 pm
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Although the two are very different, when a musical has dramatic content and music in equal measure it rises above either.

Blood Brothers is Willy Russels best play, and it's a musical. Educating Rita is superb, Stags and Hens is Hilarious, Shirley Valentine is amazing, but Blood Brothers tops them all. It does so because it has the humour, the gravitas and the emoption of all the others, but raised to a pitch by the music. There should never be a distinction made between Musicals and Drama. They're both theatre.


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yovargas
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Posted: Wed 26 Apr , 2006 4:34 pm
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Alatar wrote:
There should never be a distinction made between Musicals and Drama. They're both theatre.
Yes, but they're different styles of theater, no? You could probably add opera and ballet to other styles/forms of theater.


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Alatar
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Posted: Wed 26 Apr , 2006 4:41 pm
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True, but the distinction thats normally made is that Musicals have less intrinsic "worth" than straight drama, when they are simply a variation of the same artform.


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MaidenOfTheShieldarm
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Posted: Wed 26 Apr , 2006 4:43 pm
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TheEllipticalDisillusion wrote:
Check out Edward Albee also if you like Stoppard. Zoo Story is one of his famous ones.
Thanks for the reccomendation. I do kind of know Zoo Story. Our theatre department put it on last semester.
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There should never be a distinction made between Musicals and Drama. They're both theatre.
The distinction isn't whether one is theatre and one isn't, just styles. Of course there are musicals that are rich and deep and wonderful -- it's just that a lot of the shows that are out currently either just plain aren't or the depth gets hidden by glitz. (Not a judgement, just a statement. I adore Broadway and always will.)

Edit: I think that's why people make the distinction of straight plays somehow having more "worth." The musicals that do have a lot in them are often not the really popular ones.

Blood Brothers looks really interesting. Which recording would you reccomend?

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Wed 26 Apr , 2006 4:50 pm
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I think there is a distinction because of the addition of the music. In straight theatre you have about a 70-80% dialogue focus/20-30% visual focus. Musicals add in the musical/spectacle (for some) focus: I'd say roughly 40% is dialogue, with the other 60% being a mix of the music and visuals (sometimes the two go hand-in-hand, other times the scenery is just meant to complement the music and words).

This is compared to movies (average big-budget movies) where the divide is even more distinct: 30% dialogue and 70% visual.

The drive of a straight play versus the drive of a musical are quite distinct, yet both are theatre (same goes with Opera and ballet if we start including them).

It might be that I've only had the pleasure? of Broadway musicals which is where most of my ire comes from, since I've never heard or even seen some of those musicals you mentioned, Alatar, in a NY theatre. The intrinsic worth is always going to be debatable and depend on each person's likes and dislikes.

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yovargas
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Posted: Wed 26 Apr , 2006 5:01 pm
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Alatar wrote:
True, but the distinction thats normally made is that Musicals have less intrinsic "worth" than straight drama, when they are simply a variation of the same artform.
Really? Maybe you're right but I never got that impression much. Les Mis is the only real musical I've ever seen (loved it) and I always thought it was very highly respected.


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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Wed 26 Apr , 2006 5:18 pm
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Just to further my point after seeing the google ads on the bottom of this page: Lion King is a musical that I find to be entirely spectacle with little, if anything, to say or teach to the theatre goers. It's like the Radio City Musical Hall Christmas show. You know the story, but you go to see pretty dances, fancy costumes, glittering lights and feel good at the end. This isn't a bad thing. The purpose is just different: to be entertained rather than learn anything.

Les Miserables is a different story. That's theatre canon.

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