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Temp forum restriction on Wilko185

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Mummpizz
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Posted: Mon 21 Mar , 2005 5:09 pm
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Farawen wrote:
If that's supposed to make those of us who stay here feel bad, I can state that in my case it has worked perfectly.
In mine, it didn't.

We are working towards the openness of the board, and it will be a good open board.

We will have another civil war on the opening when "TORC vigilantes" will sweep over the border, maybe even legal trouble with b77ers recruiting and withdrawing members from TORC, or minors sneaking into England despite the warning, and squeaking like pigs. But probably it'll all work well.

I expect some people to leave. But many have come. So it goes.

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yovargas
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Posted: Mon 21 Mar , 2005 5:19 pm
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I posted this on Business regarding the idea of confidentiality and how we should treat it. I thought it relevant here too:
me wrote:
It seems I have a different take on this then most. I'm surprised there was an expectation of confidentiality and if that was the desire it should have been made very clear upfront upon becoming a member. Since the Invites forum is the only place where confidentiality has been made explicit, I assumed (reasonably so, I think) that the same rule didn't apply elsewhere. Why make a special note of the rule for Invites if that same rule was meant to apply to the whole board?

That said, I think there is a more general way to view this. At first, I was uncomfortable with the "pre-emptive strike" idea as it did somewhat feel like an attempt to curb thought-crime. *shudders* But Lidless has changed my mind and I think he has the right attitude about all of this. Even if there isn't a strict rule of confidentiality to the other forums, it is a simple matter of respect to not go around repeating private discussions to other people without permission. I made that mistake once early on where I sent a thread to Wolfie and Watcher in html format for them to read thinking it was no big deal. It was later pointed out to me that some things were said that some of the posters may not want out in the open. This was a mistake on my part - not the specific idea of sending out a Turf thread to non-members, but the matter of not respecting the members enough to ask for permission before doing so. This is where wilko's threat falls into the "breach of conduct" category. It's not simply threatening to do something stupid, it's the blatant disrespect of the other members who have explicitly stated that they do not want their words made public. In this case, it isn't even just a display of disrespect for some members, it is disrespectful to the board as a whole, imo.

So, yes, I think this sort of action calls for some for of reprimand under the breach of the rule to respect your fellow posters. As to what the formal consequence should be, I would be reluctant to make hardcoded rules since they should be looked at on a case by case basis. I actually sent a thread to others, but it was done without malicious intent and I immediately apologized when I realized the problem. Because of that, no action needed to be taken. This kind of view, one of judging based on a perceived lack of respect, leaves things rather subjective but I can live with that.


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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Mon 21 Mar , 2005 5:20 pm
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I wish we could have a moratorium on threats to leave. Those threats chill exactly the kind of discussion we need to have. They panic people who don't want to see friends go. They give most people (I imagine) a sick feeling. They do not promote anyone's views--they just say, "This is an incredibly painful topic!" in giant red letters, and people turn and run.

There is now a discussion thread on opening the boards in the Business forum: B77: Open or invite-only or what? I hope there will be some calm discussion there.


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Nin
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Posted: Mon 21 Mar , 2005 5:25 pm
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I see underneath all the angst something very positive happening here: Never before has received a thread about the future of board77 such an answer in both, quantity and quality.

Besides the non-constructive threats to leave, many ideas come up and are outspoken - and in the end, almost no post is angry with Wilko... should that not be a positive sign for the future?

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Eruname
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Posted: Mon 21 Mar , 2005 6:09 pm
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Primula_Baggins wrote:
I wish we could have a moratorium on threats to leave. Those threats chill exactly the kind of discussion we need to have. They panic people who don't want to see friends go. They give most people (I imagine) a sick feeling. They do not promote anyone's views--they just say, "This is an incredibly painful topic!" in giant red letters, and people turn and run.
I'm in full agreement with that Prim. I've already asked once in this thread that people not threaten to leave and now I'll add asking for temp bans. It's not helpful at all and as Ax said, it's coercive and distructive.

I'd also like to ask that thoughts on this board opening be taken to the Business forum and that we deal with the situtation that this thread was started for: Wilko's threats to reveal information contained on this board. We're getting sidetracked. Most people have had their say about Wilko so really we just need to wait around and see if he'll appear. If he doesn't appear today maybe one of the admins could email him to see if he plans on returning? If he says no, then we can discuss what to do next.

Also, would it be possible to move his thread to invites so that his permissions to the Turf can be restored?

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Abandon this fleeting world
abandon yourself.
Then the moon and flowers
will guide you along the way.

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Berhael
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Posted: Mon 21 Mar , 2005 6:24 pm
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Done. Wilko now has access to all the usual fora save Invites (that is also temporary until he comes back and takes part in an arbitration process), and his thread has been moved temporarily from the Turf to Invites.

I'm going to have a go at deleting the shadow in the Business room.
EDIT: deleted. Wilko's "My presence in this board" thread is now in Invites and there are no shadows anywhere.

As for me leaving, I hope nobody took it as a threat to flounce out (this time :oops:). I just need time out, for my well being. All this crap happened at crunch time at work, when I had to work extra hours; and I was so distraught that I had to work even longer hours. I don't eat properly, I sleep badly, I'm stressed and ill and weak and at my wits' ends. I need time without internet trouble. If that is selfish, so be it. I'll be around, but not 12h+ a day like it has been the norm lately; I need to restrict myself to 1 or 2h. Therefore, I don't think I can fulfil my admin duties.

Thank you everyone for the hugs and messages of support, they were very needed and are hugely appreciated. :grouphug: :)

Last edited by Berhael on Mon 21 Mar , 2005 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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"The most terrifying day of your life is the day the first one is born [...] Your life, as you know it... is gone. Never to return. But they learn how to walk, and they learn how to talk... and you want to be with them. And they turn out to be the most delightful people you will ever meet in your life."


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Eruname
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Posted: Mon 21 Mar , 2005 6:30 pm
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Health concerns make you exempt Ber. I didn't see you threatening to leave. I see you needing to leave to take care of yourself physically which is perfectly okay. :hug: Go use some of the Lush discontinueds! :D

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Abandon this fleeting world
abandon yourself.
Then the moon and flowers
will guide you along the way.

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Axordil
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Posted: Mon 21 Mar , 2005 6:35 pm
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Yeah, Ber, take a break and get Lushed. :)

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Mon 21 Mar , 2005 6:51 pm
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Ber, I wasn't talking about you! I'm sorry if I thoughtlessly conveyed that.

What you've just gone through is above and beyond, and I know you aren't "flouncing out"--you're getting some rest you badly need. I hope it helps. :hug:


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Axordil
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Posted: Mon 21 Mar , 2005 6:56 pm
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Besides, we know you'll be back, Ber. We took your wallet. :D

Back to the case of Wilko. After thinking about it this morning, I think we don't need to do squat. He knows, if he has looked, how people feel, and that should be enough. Some people here will never trust him again, and that is a steep price to pay for one's personal sense of right and wrong.

I do think, however, that the closed invites threads should be deleted entirely. Any historical use they may have is outweighed by the trouble they are causing.

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Destiny is a rhythm track on which we must improvise.

In some cases, firing the drummer helps.


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Berhael
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Posted: Mon 21 Mar , 2005 6:57 pm
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Thanks. :) Prim, don't worry. I have done the primadonna stamping-of-feet-if-I-don't-get-my-way before, which is why I wanted to make clear that I'm just taking a break now. Consider it a spa break. And I know I can't bring the laptop into the bathroom because of the steam... ;)

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"The most terrifying day of your life is the day the first one is born [...] Your life, as you know it... is gone. Never to return. But they learn how to walk, and they learn how to talk... and you want to be with them. And they turn out to be the most delightful people you will ever meet in your life."


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Eruname
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Posted: Mon 21 Mar , 2005 7:11 pm
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Axordil wrote:
After thinking about it this morning, I think we don't need to do squat. He knows, if he has looked, how people feel, and that should be enough. Some people here will never trust him again, and that is a steep price to pay for one's personal sense of right and wrong.
I'm feeling the same way. But, I do feel that the [non-member screen names deleted] thread in invites should be moved to Deleted Storage and people should think about what they said in his thread and whether they want that out in the public or not.

I don't know Ber, maybe the computer would like to relax as well! Or it may not like steam just like my hair! :P

Ranger edit, 08 Nov 05

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Abandon this fleeting world
abandon yourself.
Then the moon and flowers
will guide you along the way.

-Ryokan

http://wanderingthroughmiddleearth.blogspot.com/


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MariaHobbit
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Posted: Mon 21 Mar , 2005 8:15 pm
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Take care of yourself, Ber! :hug:


Well, I just got through this thread and it took exactly 1.5 hours, :neutral: which is a significant chunk of my available online time today.

I must say that I regularly pass on information about B77 to nonmembers who are TORCers. They all happen to be in my immediate family, but the principle is the same, in a tangental sort of way. WhenEVER I say something on B77 that I think my husband might possibly be offended by, I show him the whole thread- even though I know he has no way of seeing it without my help.

I just feel bad until I show him and give him a response opportunity. I never say things about people that I would not say to their face, and I recommend others do the same!

I can totally sympathize with Wilco wanting to show [non-member screen name deleted] what was said about her- as long as it wasn't something from the Invite forum.

AND, in fact, I just explained the situation going on right now to my Mom on IM, who desperately wants to be on this site someday, (can we get back to inviting people!) and copy-pasted this whole reply of mine to her. (She had asked me how the new board was going, and I told her! )

And if that is an actionable offense, SO BE IT! :rage: Jury me, too!

Ranger edit, 08 Nov 05


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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Mon 21 Mar , 2005 8:23 pm
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The only things that would make me want to leave board77 is if I became convinced that we were not working towards opening as soon as is feasible or that someone had been treated in a completely unfair and unjust matter. As for "l'affair wilko" I think that the current admins have handled the situation about as close to perfectly as I could hope for. :hug: :love:

Fair enough?


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wilko185
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Posted: Mon 21 Mar , 2005 9:43 pm
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Well, sorry for keeping people in suspense :) (I didn't feel up to posting until today, as I had a rather difficult journey home yesterday which ended up taking 5 hours longer than it should have done). However, I have been asked not to discuss things until the arbitration process can take effect.

That said, I don't see where that is supposed to take place (I currently only see 3 Convention threads and a Sticky in the Jury room ?). In the meantime, I will just say that I seem to cause even more trouble here when I'm not online than when I am, which I have to apologise for.

I also need to apologise to Berhael, for putting her in a very difficult situation at the weekend. She coped with it very well, but it would have been far better for me to not have put her through that in the first place.

I have been very fairly treated by everyone in all this, and I have no complaints whatsoever about being banned or restricted. I intend to see what transpires from the arbitration process, and depending on how that goes then I may talk on the open board. Or I may not :).


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Nin
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Posted: Mon 21 Mar , 2005 9:48 pm
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Wilko, come what may, let me tell you that it is good to see you here in order to discuss things in the open and hopefully find a willingness and terrain for dialogue.

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Axordil
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Posted: Mon 21 Mar , 2005 9:57 pm
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wilko--

You should be getting most of your view/post rights back immediately--in fact you may want to go out and come back in again to see if they work...

And for what it is worth, thank you for coming back, from someone who was angry (and is now less so) about the weekend without having been there. I admire your willingness to discuss this, and perhaps when all is said and done we (pardon the imperiousness) will, like Faramir and Frodo, understand each other.

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In some cases, firing the drummer helps.


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Iavas_Saar
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Posted: Mon 21 Mar , 2005 10:03 pm
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[real name deleted], it's impressive that you have come back and posted calmly. If it were me I probably would have called it a day by now.

I would like to apologise on my part for any difficult situation I may have put you in regarding [non-member screen name deleted].

Ranger edit, 07 Nov 05

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Mon 21 Mar , 2005 10:06 pm
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Wilko, I'm glad you're back, too. It is always better to be able to talk things through.


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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Mon 21 Mar , 2005 10:24 pm
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Well, I've already said this privately, but I'll say it publicly as well. I support wilko's participation in this community, and while I am sad that several people (including him) have suffered angst over this situation, I am glad that it has pushed some issues that I think the community needs to address to the forefront, and has stiimulated some very productive discussion.


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