board77

Quote:

Why was the Red Book called the Red Book of Westmarch?

Wasn't it because Sams heirs, who kept the book, were made wardens of the westmarch? and lived there in later years.

That makes perfect sense Toby.

I was thinking may be could work 'webmarch' into our title ... or is that way too cheesy

Jn

Well I wouldn't say cheesy, but it doesn't sound quite right.

(I shouldn't say nothing as I know I don't have any better ideas to offer)

I think "The Red Book of board77" is perfect. Particulaly if we adpt the Shire terminology that I have proposed in the convention.

yeah

There's something so attractive about Tolkien's names, but when you try to line them up with a 21st century internet community, the translation doesn't quite jive.

I've been breaking my head over Voronwe's sheriff's too, but so many of those words have taken on modern meanings - like "bounders" - males of unsavory reputation - and it's hard to figure how Shire functions match to ours, and what the sheriff would be called in the Shire if he had the same functions that our admins have.

Jn

edit: ooops - belated realization that Voronwe posted right above me. The frownie face was for my own cheesy joke, V. I really am breaking my head over your Shire terms ... thinking how to make them fit.

Just my personal thoughts. Red Book is a cool idea but I kinda don't want this to be thought of as a Tolkien board. I don't view it as such and going by the discussions on the board, most people don't either. I know it's our only true common link and all (at least that I can think of), but somehow that connection speaks to me of TORC not of b77.

Just imo. Wouldn't be terribly opposed or anything, just would rather not.

Unless, of course, we could appoint Sam as Sheriff...then you call it whatever you want cuz I'll spend all my time swooning for him (:P)

yovargas wrote:

Just my personal thoughts. Red Book is a cool idea but I kinda don't want this to be thought of as a Tolkien board.

But... calling our charter the Red Book isn't a terrifically obvious Tolkien connection. And I'm having a lot of trouble with "charter" and "constitution" and so forth. Such big, heavy words. I just thought it would be nicer if, when there's a problem to consider, we could say, "Let's consult the Red Book" instead of "Let's consult the Constitution."

I'm open to other suggestions though. What would you like, yovargas?

I like "Red Book." It has comfortable associations, and I like the thought that our charter would have a cozy, timeworn feel to it.

It's not alarming. Although it opens itself to expressions such as "threw the Red Book at him."

And we'll need an emoticon for that!!

Jn

Hehe a little red book flying through the air.

First TheLidlessEyes wrote:

Regarding the legal stuff and liability - when people join, I'll probably have something like:

This site contains adult-oriented and explicit material. When you join you certify the following:

I am an adult as deemed by my community and have the legal right to possess and read adult material.

I understand the standards and laws of the community, site and computer to which I am transporting this material, and am solely responsible for my actions. If I use these services in violation of the above agreement understand I may be in violation of local and/or federal laws and am sole responsible for my actions.

I do not find explicit adult material to be offensive or objectionable.

By becoming a member of this site, I will have released and discharged the providers, owners and creators of this site from any and all liability which might arise.

. . . Then Ethel wrote:

That looks like a good disclaimer, Steve. But... does it not exclude some of our younger members?

. . . and finally TheLidlessEyes wrote:

Ethel, you're right.

We could play the innocence game of not knowing Pippin4242 and co are under 18, but a trawl through the posts will make it obvious we were (I am) aware.

It should be amended to include something about written permission from their parents. It's not like we have pornography per se, just occassionaly adult discussions about adult themes.

No one under the age of 18 would be allowed in the Thinking Of England forum, nor for any adult-themed RP. That has to be a golden rule, I think. Again, I'll have to take legal counsel on it. Thus if I am sued, I can sue the lawyer for crap advice - and being in America, I can add three zeros onto the number for good measure.

I know I'm about 4 or 5 pages late with my thoughts on this, but I offer two of them right now anyways:

1. Deferring for the moment the question of legal protection, I have a bit of a concern regarding including some of this language prominently, particularly in a form that is in any way analogous to the form one might happen to see on certain types of adult websites that I, of course, have never actually seen myself. Unfortunately, I suspect very strongly that this type of language -- while warning away some people and at least putting others who decide to enter on notice of what they might find on the board -- may also serve as a tempting invitation for many who would not otherwise be interested in coming on this board to in fact come here & post certain types of adult content that I, of course, have never actually seen myself. Hopefully this would happen only ocassionally and could be handled fairly easily and expeditiously, but it's also possible that it could result in the need for signficant vigilence and editing and such by the folks then on duty.

As to the legal issue, I certainly don't claim to have any substantive knowledge as to how effective such disclaimers are for purposes of adult content on the internet, but in the securities laws disclaimers are highly disfavored and often have little or no legal effect. Certainly one thing that would be needed for such a disclaimer to have any hope of providing legal protection would be prominence so that the user would be highly likely to see it before entering the site, rather than something buried deep in the website or that is easily clicked through without being read (I, for one, make it a policy NOT to read terms of use and similar disclosures/disclaimers that can easily be clicked through and only ever really paid attention to them when I had to get our outside counsel to write something up for us on our own website). However, that's the kind of prominence that also would tempt the bottom-feeders I referred to in the preceding paragraph.

2. I must admit I'm a bit embarassed to say this, and it is absolutely not meant as a threat, but I think that a prominent disclaimer as described above might very well cause me to seek de-registration from this board. It really surprised me when this thought first popped into my head, and I can't help feeling silly about it, but at this stage in my career I just don't need the complication of possibly having to explain to certain people my registration on a site that has that kind of warning slapping you in the face. I just don't need it. However much I try to reason my way to a different conclusion, I nonetheless return to the conclusion that I just don't need it. Like I said, this really should not be read as a threat -- you have to do what is right to protect yourself from potential liabilities. In any event, as most of you who know me already know, I have always been really just a casual poster in any event (albeit with short bursts of excessive posting), and even if I get past this issue and continue to come to this board I most likely will never be a prolific poster. I offer the thoughts in this specific paragraph not as an argument against using the disclaimer but to be truthful to my friends.

TORN, you make an excellent point. I never go into the England forum. I just don't want to know about the sexual proclivities of my fellow posters, and I am almost pathologically incapable of sharing my own except with someone I deeply love.

Yet I don't wish to be judgmental. Why shouldn't people post about sexual matters if they want to? Well, you have just given an excellent reason why. Could I ever share the URL of a place with that type of disclaimer on the front page with a casual friend? No. I don't think so.

There are really two types of sites on the internet - the sexually explicit and the general interest. Typically there is very little of general interest on the sexually explicit sites, and very little that is sexually explicit on the general interest ones.

Thank you, TORN, for pointing this out. In my wish to be non-judgemental about something that does not personally interest me, I think I missed something important.

What do you think, ladies and gentleman? Will you be happy posting at a site that has a warning on the front page about sexually explicit content?

Well, I wouldn't care, I guess, but I also probably wouldn't participate in threads of that nature (I have little interest in being allowed in the England forum). After six years in the navy, and being bombarded with porn on a near daily basis, when I was on a ship, I've become a bit jaded, the stuff doesn't have any shock value anymore. I come across the stuff online and its like "oh hohum another porn site" <clicks x button>

I am wondering, is simply having forums where the user will need to be granted permission to access, like there is now, not considered a viable solution? Maybe a legal issue or something?

Well, now. I have to say that while I had never thought about it that way, now that you raise the issue, and I think about some, I do have some trepidation about that. I visited the England forum a couple of times when it first opened (and even before it opened participated in one of the threads that ended up going there), but I quickly decided that I too was not interested in hearing about other poster's sexual proclivities or discussing my own. I'm not sure I would want to refer someone to the site knowing that it had such a disclaimer prominently posted. And yet, I also firmly believe that if sexually explicit (at least by some definition) material is here, such a disclaimer does need to be prominently displayed. It is a dilemna.

Maybe Thinking of England should be a completely separate site?

I'm going to be blunt and say that would not break my heart at all. I've never had any wish to prevent other B77ers from discussing whatever they want, and as things are, the England forum has been a satisfactory solution for me.

But when it becomes a difficulty or an embarrassment for those who don't wish to participate, my sympathies are with the abstainers. The England-free content is always going to be the public face, the most important face, of the site.

Would it be possiible simply to leave the England forum here when we move? Still functioning, but only open to those already here who elect to see it.

If it remains at a separate site not owned by Lidless, would that solve his liability problem? It would remove the forum one further step from B77 itself; and it would eliminate the most serious adult content from the site.

Primula_Baggins wrote:

I like "Red Book." It has comfortable associations, and I like the thought that our charter would have a cozy, timeworn feel to it.

It's not alarming. Although it opens itself to expressions such as "threw the Red Book at him."

"Red Book" has such a nice communist ring to it too. Mummpy will be pleased.


Oh and I have no problem with leaving the England forum behind if needs be. But would that mean that threads I originally started in the Turf (there was one that quoted from the BBC website on the 'Bad Sex Writing Awards' and another that contained stories of amusingly hideous sexual expereinces mostly copied off the forum of a UK based soap company ) would be banned? We'd need to ensure that the line was firmly drawn wouldn't we? I confess I find it difficult - TORC was easy - you just kept your conversation to primary school level. But here I was kind of hoping I could be 'me'; not in a rowdy sense but at least as open conversationally as I would be with my work colleagues. And um... that doesn't entirely rule out discussing sex.

Can't the disclaimer appear only upon entry to the England forum? It can't be done on this server but I'm sure we can figure out a way to do it on the new one. I don't want to separate the forum, it's something we created for our convenience...separating it makes it sound so much dirtier than it really is, and encourages it to become less sophisticated.

I barely go there myself, but I haven't got a problem with it being there next to the other forums.

I think pretty much anything could be tweaked once we have our own place .

And I'm a bit like Voronwe and Ethel on this issue. I don't mind having such a forum around for those who want it. Yet I would mind actually (and thanks for bringing that up) having a massive disclaimer of adult content applied to the whole site.

And I like the Red Book ... and demand an appropriate smiley
_______________
Resident witch

If a massive disclaimer is on the first side, it would not pass even my home filter any more.... not even to ask about school.

My question is eventually: Could it be possible that for all persons who do not spontaniously register their birthday and all those who according to their birthday date are minors, the forum is completely invisible? I see when I logg on under my RP IDs not even a trace of the other fora, so it should be possible.

Only persons who ask for it will be enabled to see the forum - would it be possible to send them a disclaimer e-mail which they have to send back, confirming once more they are major, before their access is enabled? And if it makes things to complicated, for the little I post in there, let it go. But I am with Leoba for the line of discussion...

Is there a middle ground between having a massive porn-site-style disclaimer and having a TOS like TORC's?

That is, suppose England is dealt with either by being on a different server or by having the big disclaimer attached just to it and invisible to those who don't ask for privileges there. Would it then be enough disclaimer for the site as a whole to say something like "B77 is a message board for conversation among adults"? (I'd really advise avoiding using "adult" as an adjective--it so totally means "pornographic." )