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Should we temporarily restart the invite process?

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Should the invite process be restarted now?
Yes, we should allow invitation threads to be posted (a limited number per day)
  
49% [ 23 ]
No, we should remain closed to new invitations until the constitution is finished and ratified.
  
51% [ 24 ]
Total votes: 47
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Frelga
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Posted: Fri 08 Apr , 2005 6:22 pm
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I didn't vote on this one because I agree with Voronwe (which I usually do except on the Nazgul-over-Osgiliath scene ;)).

As for wanting to hash out the Constitution before opening the board...

I am what they call a programmer/analyst. That means that someone comes to me and says, "Hey, can we get the computer to ..." Then I spend days squeezing information out of them so that we can decide how things should work and look, and come up with a document called user specs. (Hang in there, the point is just ahead.)

The point: it doesn't work that way. Inevitably, the user specs, no matter how well thought through, are no more than a starting point. In reality the process is iterative, as we refine what we know about the problem and come up with the solution that in turn triggers new questions.

Same thing is going to happen here. We (you, I guess, since I am too new to participate :P ) can spend years on every tiny detail. Once the board is open you will inevitably find that there are hundreds of scenarios that have not been foreseen, and the rules will need to be created on the fly. Even the US Constitution had to be amended many times.

If I were here long enough to contribute, I would suggest that the board be open as soon as practical, but the number of new members be limited to X per week, first come first serve. X would be whatever the admins can comfortably process, and as soon as practical would be when the very basic guidelines are in place but details are still being worked out.

What I think will happen in reality is that a few people will rush over because their friends are here and they want to participate. These people will be good citizens and can be absorbed with minimum trouble, especially since their friends who want them here will be eager to help them adjust. It's possible that a few other people will come and make trouble on purpose, although personally I doubt it. If they do, they will be dealt with firmly and politely by the membership, and if necessary by the admins.

It will be months if not years before anybody who is not an avid TORCer would want to join this messageboard out of the blue and by that time we will have all the experience of assimilating newcomers we need to come up with realistic and sensible guidelines.


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Guruthostirn
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Posted: Fri 08 Apr , 2005 6:32 pm
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Speaking of moving (the thread is dead)...did we ever decide whether or not we'd stick with php, or get a better messageboard system which we might have to shell out a few bucks for?

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Alatar
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Posted: Fri 08 Apr , 2005 6:33 pm
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Well spoken Frelga. I for one would welcome your insights and opinions on any subject at any time.

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Fri 08 Apr , 2005 8:37 pm
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I don't think anyone expects a perfect Constitution by the time we open, but (and I think Jn) said something about it: we should have some basic bylaws and a statement of purpose before opening. Something to grab people and make them want to join, and considering the other thread, make them want to be contributing members of the board.

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The Watcher
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Posted: Sat 09 Apr , 2005 2:53 am
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Well, I caught this thread by TED's suggestion, but, I have already posted in so many of these threads that again I ask, what is the point? Will this poll actually mean anything?

I am not being sarcastic, I truly want to know if putting up these threads does anything. This poll seems to just be a sampling, there is no expiration date, it is asking our input again, which is good, but this must be the third time that I have participated in a thread which addresses this issue.

I am all for a constitutional process. But, it seems to me that not EVERYTHING needs to be put on hold until this is effected.

But, with my vote now, I see that this thread is exactly even on the poll.

Just a suggestion, but could an admin put a link into "The Turf" where everyone could see this, if indeed input is the goal of the poll?

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Sat 09 Apr , 2005 3:19 am
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I also think a time limit should be added to this thread, and then the results should be used to whatever they resulted in. Hmm, I hope that was clear.

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Sat 09 Apr , 2005 4:11 am
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This was put up as an advisory poll, because the admins wanted to know whether there was a strong feeling in favor of reopening invites. It isn't a binding poll. There isn't any provision for those as yet.

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Sat 09 Apr , 2005 5:15 am
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Well, let's create one that's binding. Instead of waiting until the Constitution hashes everything out, we can at least try some things.

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Sat 09 Apr , 2005 6:50 am
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The constitution will be in place soon--at least enough of it that we can take action. And many people believe that opening the board completely is more important than beginning, now, an invitation process that will bring in just a few people in the next month, when if we stay focused it shouldn't take much longer for us to open to everyone.

The vote is essentially split half and half between those who want to restart invites and those who, for whatever reason, don't. This just doesn't constitute a clear call for radical action. To do that might divide the board.

I know it's hard to be asked to be patient. I really know. There are people I very much want in here who aren't yet, and can't be yet. That is intensely frustrating to me.

But I also know that the people working on the constitution (I'm one of them) are working hard, and that we're putting a lot of thought into speeding up the process.

And I, personally, hope that the next advisory poll will be to ask whether we should open. That poll might give us a clearer majority.

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Dindraug
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Posted: Sat 09 Apr , 2005 10:28 am
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The Watcher wrote:
I ask, what is the point? Will this poll actually mean anything?

I am not being sarcastic, I truly want to know if putting up these threads does anything. This poll seems to just be a sampling, there is no expiration date, it is asking our input again, which is good, but this must be the third time that I have participated in a thread which addresses this issue.

I am all for a constitutional process. But, it seems to me that not EVERYTHING needs to be put on hold until this is effected.

But, with my vote now, I see that this thread is exactly even on the poll.
No Watcher, all threads like this do is allow people with issues to broach them, and shout and holler.

This is the #th thread of this type since December when the issue of should we open up the board beyon the origional pertitioners was raised. As ever, it will decend into a stalemate between those who wan't friends over' and those who do not want the insuing mass influx because they feel that making the board work is better than firefighting later, again.

The consitution is taking longer than we thought, which if you think about it means that people are putting effort into it. Nobody is suffering because this place is not open, nobody has died because of it, or been commited to life imprisonment. Gravity, for example, still exists and as far as I know the second coming has not been delayed because Board77 is not open to the masses.

I voted No, incase you have not guessed. I would prefer to have controls in place to stop the trolls before they decend. Let the constitution be finished, no matter how long it takes. That is important, but opening the doors so that we can deluged by people who's only interest appears to be to join the site where 'the cool people' are.

We are trying to resolve the invite process so that all those people who feel uncoftable by it don't need to do it again. That is one of the goals. I see no reson to add to the discomfort experienced by people on this board by making people start a process again that they feel unhappy with, and from letting new people feel uncomfatable because they will feel precluded because they will not be able to vote new people in.
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Just a suggestion, but could an admin put a link into "The Turf" where everyone could see this, if indeed input is the goal of the poll?
I wasn't aware that anybody who posts on the board is banned from reading this forum. Can we keep these threads in here and not clog up the more fun and informative forums.

If you really want people make people aware of this thread, put links in your sig. Or PM them.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 2:18 am
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Alert:

This topic has started to be discussed also in the thread entitled: "Members Requesting their Permissions be Changed."

Those who are feeling intense about this issue should read the end of that thread too.

Jn

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 2:34 am
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Its my fault. I posted in the wrong thread, and by the time I realized it, a whole discussion had ensued.


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tinwe
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 2:37 am
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Here’s a link to the exact post in the other thread where the discussion about invites started:

http://www.phpbber.com/phpbb/viewtopic. ... rd77#54738

Since this is the thread about invites I’ll put my comments here, but, to put things in context, I’ll quote Voronwe from the other thread:
Voronwe_the_Faithful wrote:
My thinking has changed again. :roll: I now think that, rather than immediately opening the floodgates, or keeping them keeping them completely shut until the constitution is ratified, we should let everyone on the list of potential invitees at the Invite forum in right away. After all, these are all people that someone here can vouch for; there won't be any trolls in the bunch. Then there will be less pressure to open fully until the constitution is finished, since that is obviously still going to take a significant amount of time. And there will be less negativity about people kept out.

That is my current opinion. I wonder what my next opinion will be. :roll:
I think this is a good idea, but there are some logistical problems.

1. I’m not sure everyone has seen the List of people we may someday want to invite thread, so some people may feel disenfranchised if they are left out of the process, so to speak. We could put an announcement up in each forum alerting people to the thread, but then we run the risk of exponentially increasing the number on the list.

2. The people whose name I put on the list are Manweistas that I know, but whom I have no information on (email addresses, etc). I have no idea how to go about getting this information.

3. Some objections were made in the List of people we may someday want to invite thread to some of the people on the list, including an objection to one of the people I mentioned. Should we simply discount these objections, or have some further discussions on them? I assume that would mean going back to the voting process, something I would not want to see happen.


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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 5:08 am
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Tinwe, you raise good points. :)


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Nin
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 9:49 am
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I ma very strongly opposed to opening the invite process for some -those on the list - but not for others... maybe someone has just forgotten a name, and suddenly finds himself too late... Or someone might not dare to add a name to the list - like me - knowing someone is potentially a conflict provoking person.

Also, I don't like at all at all the idea of a global vote on the list. There are one or two names to which I would oppose, but I would not dare to vote no to a global list for just those ones. In all, I hate the idea, and I think it is one of the worse possible solutions, creating yet another undergroup of members: full members voted in before march 12th, middle members (still counting for the constitution quorum or not? means debate and delay again) and finally, those who will register only when the boards are open and will feel like nobody wanted them...

Strong opposition from me.

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Mon 11 Apr , 2005 6:09 am
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I don't agree to a global vote an entire list (and I haven't even see the full list). I'd rather we deal with each "potential" member separately.

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