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Inviting the whole "someday" list at once

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Frelga
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 6:59 am
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If I were not so clueless maybe I wouldn't be so confused... It seems to me that the mission statement should be the very first thing to define. Once that is in place, it would become the golden standard against which every other rule and guideline should be measured.

In a way, I see this happening already, when decisions are checked against the guiding values of member-governance and honest communication. IMO, a mission statement that formalizes those values is about 60% of what this board needs before it opens.

P.S.: If there IS a flood of new people, I would also be willing to volunteer to help with assimilation. I'm a n00bie, but I'm also a techie.


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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 7:09 am
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Frelga, you make me feel better. Member governance and honest communication. Yup.

I screamed earlier because I have been through the mission statement thing before (months! years!)--but I was forgetting that here we have a group of people who honestly do want to figure out the purpose of their organization. And who honestly care what it is. And who are more interested in figuring it out than in scuffling for brownie points.

Huge difference. :grouphug:

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 7:45 am
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Usually a mission statement comes first. But if you look further up in this thread (or maybe it's in the other thread where this is also being discussed) someone wanted to know whether we had prioritized things needed to reopen the invites or open the board or whatever, and said that if we hadn't we should do it now.

:help:

We can't do a hundred things simulataneously. We had to chose.

I prioritized those necessary things - like administrators - that were already nearly completed by votes of the membership before the convention convened. Finishing the basic governance structure will allow us to absorb new members more easily.

Then we move to the mission statement, and related items.

Then we go back and finish the less crucial by-laws.

Down in the Bike Racks there is a thread giving links and an outline for members following the convention. Because it is in the Bike Racks, everyone can ask questions there. At the top of the convention discussion thread there is also an outline and an agenda.

Jn

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laureanna
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 8:13 am
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Thanks Jn! I didn't know we could stand outside the Jury Room and voice our opinions. I will go there post haste.

EDIT: Never mind. The Bike Racks just has people smoking and flirting. I'll go look in the Business Room.

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Nin
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 9:50 am
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Copied from the restart invite discussion thread:

I ma very strongly opposed to opening the invite process for some -those on the list - but not for others... maybe someone has just forgotten a name, and suddenly finds himself too late... Or someone might not dare to add a name to the list - like me - knowing someone is potentially a conflict provoking person.

Also, I don't like at all at all the idea of a global vote on the list. There are one or two names to which I would oppose, but I would not dare to vote no to a global list for just those ones. In all, I hate the idea, and I think it is one of the worse possible solutions, creating yet another undergroup of members: full members voted in before march 12th, middle members (still counting for the constitution quorum or not? means debate and delay again) and finally, those who will register only when the boards are open and will feel like nobody wanted them...

Strong opposition from me.

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Rodia
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 10:31 am
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Yes, I don't see where the idea of inviting that whole list suddenly came from...Holby is right, and Nin is right, we should get everything sorted, and then open up. That list was supposed to be an 'I wish', shall I go add ten more names there because I want them in ASAP? Nah...let's not come up with new ideas like that, let's just get the board ready for opening. Please.


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wilko185
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 3:47 pm
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[post moved to other thread]

Last edited by wilko185 on Sun 10 Apr , 2005 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 3:53 pm
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I wonder if I could get a friendly admin to move the discussion that I sparked about inviting the people on the list out of this thread where it does not belong and into either the existing thread regarding restarting the invite process or into a new thread. It was a complete accident that I posted in this thread, and the unfortunate result was that it completely redirected the discussion in an inappropriate way.

Thanks, and sorry for my ineptitude.


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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 4:14 pm
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Well, that was fun. :D

Voronwe, please retitle the thread as you see fit--it's yours. I had to supply a title to split it.

Wilko, I missed your on-topic (for the old thread) post when I split this one--I'm very sorry. (Maybe you can tell I haven't been at this very long. :roll: ) I can't move your post back where it belongs, but you might want to repost it in the correct thread yourself.

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truehobbit
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 4:35 pm
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I don't think it's a good idea to get all the batch of people in for several reasons. Apart from other aspects already mentioned against it, we'd have to explain to all those new people what we are doing and either convince them that they are not being treated like second-class citizens for not getting to vote on the constitution and all (yeah, like anyone will believe that! :roll:) or we'll have to re-discuss and make some changes to the process for membership voting on the constitution (and of course impress on the newbies the need to catch up with all they have missed so far) - it all sounds like a needless load of work and trouble to me, I'm afraid.

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 5:13 pm
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Quote:
IMO, a mission statement that formalizes those values is about 60% of what this board needs before it opens.
Exactly, precisely my feelings, Frelga. It is because we are still a long way from that goal that I suggested this as a stopgap action to reduce some of the negative vibes that are buidling up because of our closed nature. I disagree with those who say that this would just create more negative vibes, but I respect their opinion.


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Pippin4242
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 8:17 pm
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Don't know what I think about this. Going away to think. Meanwhile, I have contacts for Stupid_Orcs and The Mary. :)

*~Pips~*

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Berhael
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 8:54 pm
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What Hobby said. :)

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Rodia
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 8:59 pm
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You know one of the main reasons inviting that whole 'someday' list is a bad idea? It's a list that was compiled without such a mass invite in mind. Nothing prohibits me from going there and adding several names that I know people don't want to see here (yet). And I could do that just to sway the vote to a 'no'.

I'm against inviting anyone more until we get the business stuff sorted (I say we, although I don't do much in that direction at all....but there are excellent people at work there) But if we must talk about inviting some large group of people, let's try and be less random. Maybe let it be all those who have unresolved invite threads. Maybe those who registered without being invited. If this is supposed to do us any good it has to make some sort of sense, or else we risk doing more damage than good. Someone here made a valid point, forgive me for not remembering who....we have the list, and what of those left off of it? It's not true that they won't find out. They will. And they will not understand why they were not in that large invited group.


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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 9:10 pm
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I am the person who kept the list we're talking about. Some members objected to its existence, and I was only able to justify it by pointing out, and repeatedly insisting, that it was an unofficial list, "not a queue for invitation" (I said that several times), just a brainstorming list, etc., etc.

If that list is used now as an exclusive list, let's invite these and no others, then I have been in a false position for a long time. I added names to the list under a completely different understanding of its purpose. There are definitely controversial names on that list. There are also some names that were proposed that I left off because other people said, "I'm certain that this person would decline if invited."

I feel very unhappy about being in this position, especially if it becomes known that it was I who maintained the list. Those who aren't on it might well blame me personally. :(

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Rodia
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 9:16 pm
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Prim, :hug: I can't speak for the whole board (who can?) but I can say I'm 100% sure if anything is done with that list everyone will want to make sure you are not held responsible.

And you just explained one of the reasons I don't think this is a good idea at all, better than I could. :)


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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 9:47 pm
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Ro, thanks.

On rereading my post, though, I think I also need to emphasize that I do agree that being closed is bad for us, and that I like the fact that we are actively discussing near-term solutions. I honestly don't know what the best thing to do would be. At the moment I would probably choose finishing and ratifying the essential sections of the charter, and then voting on opening.

I think, whatever we do, there needs to be demonstrated wide support from the board, and the solution needs to be, not just fair, but perceived as fair.

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Sassafras
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 9:47 pm
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Prim wrote:
Quote:
I feel very unhappy about being in this position, especially if it becomes known that it was I who maintained the list. Those who aren't on it might well blame me personally.
:(

I withdraw my "yes" vote.
I would never, ever, want you feel as though your integrity was compromised.

I'm sorry. I didn't even consider how inviting the entire list might effect you. I'm an idiot. A selfish idiot.

:oops: :oops:


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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 9:51 pm
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Oh, Sass, don't! Honestly, that aspect of it only just occurred to me. How on Earth could I expect anyone else to notice if I don't?

And it's not unsolveable, I'm sure. If people want to use some version of the list, there might be some way to fix it first.

I don't want us to lose our focus here. This is a side issue.

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Rodia
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 9:57 pm
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Well, side issue- yes, and no. Even forgetting what trouble it would cause you, the list was still created as a spontaneous wish-list of maybes, not a plan on who to include in a mass invitation. As long as we're still closed, we have to abide by some sort of system- that's why the invites existed. I mean, I don't like the invites and I don't like being closed, but that doesn't mean inviting people from a list that wasn't thought through is a good idea. How does it fit in with the rest of the invite system? It doesn't at all!

I understand where the idea came from but I don't understand at all why it took on this form...it sounds like the only reason this list was suggested is that it happens to exist...is that a correct impression?


Edit: Though Sass of course thinks less than half as much of herself as she deserves, and what she thinks of herself is still more than half as much as most people are.


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