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Inviting the whole "someday" list at once

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 12:00 am
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My thinking has changed again. :roll: I now think that, rather than immediately opening the floodgates, or keeping them keeping them completely shut until the constitution is ratified, we should let everyone on the list of potential invitees at the Invite forum in right away. After all, these are all people that someone here can vouch for; there won't be any trolls in the bunch. Then there will be less pressure to open fully until the constitution is finished, since that is obviously still going to take a significant amount of time. And there will be less negativity about people kept out.

That is my current opinion. I wonder what my next opinion will be. :roll:


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Sassafras
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 12:40 am
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What Voronwe said.

Err, the last time.
Invite everyone on the list.

How many are there?

69.

:D

I count 69 names.

How would we do this without overwhelming the admins?
Let 20 or so in each week? Or more? Or less?

Is it feasible?

All I know is that there are several names I'd really like to see on our memberlist.


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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 12:49 am
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Do we really want to continue that process? I know people have expressed disdain for it. Otherwise, I say we put it up to a vote (since that's the way things seem to happen here). "Should we invite the rest of the invite list?" Yes or No. Then do whatever the people will.

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 12:56 am
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TED, that's exactly what I would like to see happen. But only if the poll is binding. And I would be happy to volunteer for temporary duty solely to process new accounts. And I bet I wouldn't be the only one.


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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 12:56 am
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<trembles very much>

I counted 70, and there are several other names mentioned since I last updated the list on Monday. We would have to track down email contact information for many of them, then email invitations, handle responses and questions, and then for those who decide to register, activate all their permissions and so forth. This is a lot of time. And (potentially) 70 new members is quite a lot at once, especially when we haven't even finished defining admin powers. . . .

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 12:58 am
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Holds Prim's hand. :love:

:Wooper:


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Sassafras
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 1:06 am
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Voronwe_the_Faithful wrote:
TED, that's exactly what I would like to see happen. But only if the poll is binding. And I would be happy to volunteer for temporary duty solely to process new accounts. And I bet I wouldn't be the only one.
*raises hand*

I volunteer.

For however long it will take.


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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 1:15 am
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Maybe not right this second. ;) But maybe as soon as the convention has at least provided guidelines for admin conduct (and perhaps dispute resolution). I say guidelines because of course nothing is binding until the whole thing is ratified by the membership. But that going to be quite a while from now, as there is still a lot of work to be done, then the comment period, then more revisions, then voting.


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laureanna
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 1:56 am
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What Voronwe said which is what I said a little while ago

To start things off, let me do something we will probably have to do, anyway. I'll let you know how many contacts I have, and who I still need them from. I have a list of several hundred emails. Don't ask me how I got them. :cool: I'll put up a list of "have" and "have-not". If you have a contact that I lack, send me a PM. You don't even have to send me the contact at this point. Then we'll have a better idea of the work involved.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 2:07 am
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Voronwe,

let me just remind everyone that when we have the article on Administrators done, I believe we will put that for a ratification vote immediately. Same for the article on dispute resolution.

This is why I didn't mind asking people to be patient - because I was thinking in terms of one month, not three. But if the members want to restart the invites, then we'll deal, I suppose.

Are we sure that all those 70 people are acceptable to the membership? Are we going to do away with the votes? The vetoes? Even if this poll is made binding, there are still a few decisions that have to be made by the members.

I'm guessing that by the time those issues are resolved, the Admin Article will be ready for ratification, so maybe it makes sense to ask all these questions simultaneously.

Jn

edit: and I just realized what thread we're in when I left and tried to find it again. With everyone's permission, I'm going to put an alert in the thread about re-opening invites that this discussion is taking place here as well.

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Anthriel
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 2:29 am
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Quote:
Don't ask me how I got them.
So... how did you get them, laureanna?

<feels ridiculously proud to know that my name is on her list>

Impy (using your nick because I'm too lazy to look up how to spell your name :P)... I, for one, am very glad that you "vent". Your views are always well presented and organized. You make sense.

It is very brave to post a view that you know is not the majority view. Many people, like me, I'm afraid, are often simply quiet when opinions are running against their own beliefs. It takes a good bit of character to stand against the tide. I am impressed.

Don't go anywhere, dammit! I want to get to know you better!

I am personally quite in the middle, emotionally, about TORC; I can absolutely sympathize with your thoughts. And I will defend your right to express them.


<Ahem>

:)


The only time I defended a friend here (in a perhaps "anti-Torc" moment) is when I thought her feelings were being attacked... she was characterized as being "melodramatic" for simply, in my view, posting what she felt.

That should be allowed. By whoever feels whatever they feel. Politely, of course.. and I have seen lots of politeness here. And a few moments of unpoliteness. :roll: But, I suppose, stuff happens.




I have a lot of hope for b77... I like the fact that people really TRY to mend rifts here. Even though the rifts seem to keep on comin'... :scratch

As to the actual question posed here: again, I think we are in a very volatile, very temporary situation here. There are LOTS of growing pains.

Bound to be. Completely expected, that. Bad case of the normals!

Perhaps we should just shelve any new rules made to address this recent phenom of people asking to be banned... we know that it may not persist after we're an open board.

No drastic measures, right now; no voluntary bannings, no rules about NOT voluntary banning, nothing like that... not right now.

We can hang in there for the very short while until we open up, I think.

We really are okay.

:D


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Holbytla
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 2:33 am
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It isn't who or how many, it is the process.
Either we open the doors or we don't.
Who is going to be left behind?
We open the doors in whatever time, there is sure to be someone that is going to be hurt because they were not part of this latest surge of posters admitted.
It isn't worth it. We either open to all or we wait until we are ready to open.
We have made it this far, let us be a bit more patient. We onlt stopped the invites a short time ago. It has only been 11 days since the last invite.
I beg that we don't go through this again.

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 2:40 am
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Jnyusa wrote:
Voronwe,

let me just remind everyone that when we have the article on Administrators done, I believe we will put that for a ratification vote immediately. Same for the article on dispute resolution.
Jn, for some reason I did not understand that. I thought there wasn't going to be a vote of the full membership until the whole constitution is finished. I must admit I am not quite confused about how this is supposed work. Of course they may have something to do with the fact that I am still at my office at 7:41 on a Saturday. ;)


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tinwe
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 2:55 am
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But Holby, if I understand correctly, V isn’t talking about starting the voting process again, just letting all the people on the list in. It’s an interesting compromise. It allows us to remain closed until such time as the structure is in place, but it solves the problem of those of us who are still missing friends from there. All without having to revisit the painful process of voting on people.

As for people still “left behind”, I’m not really sure who that would be. It’s not as if we are going to be putting up a huge banner on TORC saying “Your friends are going to B77, but you’re not!” Who’s going to know?

Ok, so perhaps that’s not the best thought out argument I’ve ever made, but this is an idea worth discussing. But perhaps it should be done in the other thread.

Edit to add: If hashing out this idea is going to take a month, and the structure issues are going to be sufficiently resolved in a month to fully open, then maybe it’s not worth it. I don’t want to do anything to slow down the process, but the time issue is ... well, an issue.


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WampusCat
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 3:10 am
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I wasn't here for the invites (latecomer!), but I'm assuming they were individual threads. What if there is a group invite thread? List all 70 (or 20 at a time, if you want to make it easier), and simply ask if anyone has strong objections to anyone on the list. If there's an objection within, say, a week's time, break that name out to a separate discussion and vote. Otherwise, all are passed by default.

This way you can discover any major problems but save at least a little time. And I suspect all would be approved.

This doesn't help with the extra load on admins, though.

(By the way, I'm not desperately looking for anyone else to join the board, just trying to find an easier way to accomplish what so many others want.)

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laureanna
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 3:22 am
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:bang: I only have an email or IM for a few people, and they aren't the ones we are looking for. If you are paranoid that I have lots of email addresses, don't send me chain letters. And don't let your friends send chain letters with your email on it for all to see.:D

EDITED: to remove the actual names.

Last edited by laureanna on Sun 12 Jun , 2005 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 3:40 am
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I have Jsav. Queen B has TheWagner I believe.

Jn

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 3:52 am
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I want to point out some issues here.

First, if we want to let this batch of people in, we really, really must first have a vote on it. This would be a big change and really has to have the board behind it.

Second, if we do this, I think Holby is exactly right that we are going to have a lot of people hurt, in exactly the same ways as during the individual invite process. More people feeling excluded, and in addition, people on B77 hurt because they didn't happen to know about this unofficial list or thought, because it was prominently billed as unofficial, that it didn't matter whether their friends were on it or not.

Third, we can do as Jnyusa has suggested and put the admin and dispute resolution sections of the charter up for ratification as soon as they're ready (and Jn has already taken steps to speed up the committee process). Then we would be ready to vote on opening. Ratifying and opening, rather than just extending yet another invite, would mean:
  • no hurt feelings on or off B77 because of exclusion
  • a relief to those on B77 with strong reservations about a closed board
  • moving closer to what I really think is most members' vision for the board
  • settling a contentious board issue
  • making important visible progress toward our charter
  • making sure there is a support structure for the work of the admins as we absorb the new people.

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 4:19 am
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I strenuously object to completely opening the board before we have a mission statement in place. There are a number of issues that I have been waiting to raise once we start discussing that critical portion of the constitution. But if we are thinking of opening to the general public before that is in place, then I need to raise them right away, particularly if opening means incorporating as well, as we have discussed. But we certainly cannot incorporate until we have a mission statement. So does that mean we are going to open before we move to the new board? It makes so much more sense to me to let in all the people that the people here want to be here, which primarily involves all of our friends left from TORC, as soon as we have at least guidelines for performance of admin duties (that becomes more important to me not that I've offered to become one ;)), but not open to the general public until we are really ready. I think that would at least reduce the negative energy that one can feel building up as board77 remains a closed society.

I'm so confused. :Q


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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Sun 10 Apr , 2005 6:45 am
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Arrggghhhhhhh!

(That scream was meant to imply frustration at the complexity of the issues we are all doing our best to face. ;) As far as the individuals involved, all I can say is :grouphug: .)

Would it help to draw up a timeline? A qualitative one--a "this has to happen before this" kind of thing, without specific deadlines?

We have, IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER, the charter, ratification of the charter, the possible admission of people who've been waiting (and, I still say, a vote to authorize this), drawing up a mission statement, incorporating, moving, and opening.

Arrrgggghhhhhhh!!!!

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