board77

TH - Although for this it would be necessary to impress on the admins that they need to face criticism calmly and not take it personally.

I'll make this point #6

Jn

TH - I just got a chance to read your second post.

I think you can insert your suggestion into my two points. It does clarify things. I took the liberty of making the transition between all three statements smoother:

......- The member affected by the action contact the admin by PM or email and requests that the action be reviewed
......- If the poster and the admin can reach an agreement between them, nothing else need be done. If the poster and the admin cannot agree, the poster can ask for an independent review
......- Two other admins and one jury member will review the action and either uphold it or overturn it.

Regarding the more serious issues:
In more serious cases, like a poster feeling treated unjustly when having their posting rights restricted, it could be a more formal case from the outset.

I'm pretty sure things like restrictions of posting rights, bans, etc. will all be covered under member rights because they will involve more offficial procedures.

What you've got in green and blue looks good. If you don't mind the incorporation that I did above, we could put all the green and blue text in a ballot at this point.

Jn

Thanks, Jny!
(I have a feeling that I'm letting you do a big chunk of the work. )

I tried to compose a provisional ballot - please check first post! - if anyone has any objections to it, please say so!

From how the discussion went it seems we don't need a special class of arbitration for disputes involving admins (as asked about in the second post)?

TH - I have a feeling that I'm letting you do a big chunk of the work

Not at all. The hard work is thinking about what others have said and trying to figure out how it fits together. I didn't have to do that here, and that really takes the pressure off.

Everything that you have there for the ballot is fine with me. From the point of view of how I will transfer the text into the charter, allow me to suggest re-arranging the items, because I will put the general statement first, then the things that are not covered by this procedure, and then this procedure itself.

***** Order, and addition of some words for clarity

1. All admin decisions may be contested.

2. Disputes of a personal nature involving an admin can be resolved at the Bike Racks or by regular Arbitration

3. In more serious cases, like bannings, or a poster feeling treated unjustly when having their posting rights restricted, etc. there is a more formal case from the outset and the procedures are described in the article on Member Rights.

4. Members may contest in the following way any admin decisions made while excercising the routine powers of admins, such as edits, moving threads, etc.

- The member affected by the action contacts the admin by PM or email and requests that the action be reviewed

- If the poster and the admin can reach an agreement between them, nothing else need be done. If the poster and the admin cannot agree, the poster can ask for an independent review

- [Two other admins and one jury member] will review the action and either uphold it or overturn it.

**** Suggestion for how to organize the ballot.

After each clause:

Question 1: I accept this provision
1. All admin decisions may be contested.
A. Yes
B. No

and for the last one, break it into two parts:

Question 4: I accept these first two parts of the provision
4. Members may contest in the following way
- The member affected by the action contacts the admin by PM or email and requests that the action be reviewed
- If the poster and the admin can reach an agreement between them, nothing else need be done. If the poster and the admin cannot agree, the poster can ask for an independent review
A. Yes
B. No

Question 5: for the last part of this provision:
Fill in each option and give it a capital letter.

Rank your choices:
A.
B.
etc.

Should I then turn it into a ballot already?
I thought we'd have to wait a bit for people to make objections, if they feel it's necessary.

Guess I'll make the ready-for-voting-ballot tomorrow first thing.

Go ahead a post a ballot, TH. This thread has been around all week long. I think we have to assume that if people had something to say they would have said it.

Jn

PLEASE SEE BALLOT IN FIRST POST, EVERYBODY!

Jny, I had a problem with splitting up the last provision the way you said, because I thought merely ranking the choices for the last part meant you can't say "no" on this part at all.

So, I kept the whole provision together for a yes/no-vote, and stole the possibility to not accept single steps from Faramond's ballot ( ), then gave the ranking of the choices in an extra question.
I'm not sure whether that's ok - if it is, should I send out a "ballot is up"-mail or do you do that?

If anyone else should happen to peek in here, please also post any comments you have on the ballot!

TH - that looks fine! And good catch on the last question.

One suggestion to make it clearer.
On part c, where you've got all the choices in blue and members have to vote on them in the subsequent question:

[Two other admins and one jury member/ Two other admins and one jury member/Two other admins and the mayor/ One admin, one mayor, one jury member of the poster's choice/One admin, one jury member of the poster's choice, and the mayor gets to break a tie ]

You can take all this out and just say:

"The independent review will decide to overturn or uphold the decision." and then add in blue you will vote on who should do the review in the next question

The last question then becomes:
Independent Review will be done by ... and list the choices. That last past will need a question number, too.

When I adapt the text for the charter, I will incorporate the answer to the last question into the text so that it is not two separate items.

I will add this ballot to the sticky thread on Voting Schedule and send a copy of that notice to everyone because I can do it with one click.

Jn

Ok, done - yes, looks better that way!

BALLOT

1. A. Yes

2. A. Yes

3. A. Yes

4. A. Yes

5.
#1 = D
#2 = C
#3 = A
#4 = B

We haven't actually begun voting yet - but good to see you've got no objections, Alatar!

I suppose if there aren't any objections by the time the voting starts (Saturday, 5 AM GMT) your vote can stand, otherwise, if there are changes, you'd have to vote again.

Doh!

Well, if you don't get another vote from me, use this one where possible.

Alatar

No objection her hounour.

1. All admin decisions may be contested.

B. No

2. Disputes of a personal nature involving an admin can be resolved at the Bike Racks or by regular Arbitration
A. Yes

3. In more serious cases, like bannings, or a poster feeling treated unjustly when having their posting rights restricted, etc. there is a more formal case from the outset and the procedures are described in the article on Member Rights.
A. Yes

4. Members may contest in the following way any admin decisions made while excercising the routine powers of admins, such as edits, moving threads, etc.

A. Yes

5. The Independent Review will be done by:

Please rank your choices:

A: Two other admins and one jury member
B: Two other admins and the mayor
C: One admin, one mayor, one jury member of the poster's choice
D: One admin, one jury member of the poster's choice, and the mayor gets to break a tie

#1 = A
#2 = B
#3 =
#4 =

(I refuse to even list any choice that includes the poster chosing a jury member. That concept is a complete anathema to me)

BALLOT

1. All admin decisions may be contested.

I accept this provision
A. Yes


2. Disputes of a personal nature involving an admin can be resolved at the Bike Racks or by regular Arbitration

I accept this provision
A. Yes

3. In more serious cases, like bannings, or a poster feeling treated unjustly when having their posting rights restricted, etc. there is a more formal case from the outset and the procedures are described in the article on Member Rights.

I accept this provision
A. Yes

4. Members may contest in the following way any admin decisions made while excercising the routine powers of admins, such as edits, moving threads, etc.

a. The member affected by the action contacts the admin by PM or email and requests that the action be reviewed

b. If the poster and the admin can reach an agreement between them, nothing else need be done. If the poster and the admin cannot agree, the poster can ask for an independent review.

c. The independent review will decide to overturn or uphold the decision.
(You vote on who should do the review in the next question.)

I accept all three steps of this provision:

A. Yes

5. The Independent Review will be done by:

Please rank your choices:

A: Two other admins and one jury member
B: Two other admins and the mayor
C: One admin, one mayor, one jury member of the poster's choice
D: One admin, one jury member of the poster's choice, and the mayor gets to break a tie

#1 = D
#2 = C
#3 = B
#4 =A

1=A

2=A

3=A

4 =A

5= The Independent Review will be done by: (very tough this one)
#1 =A
#2 =D
#3 =C
#4 =B
_______________
Resident witch

1.

A. Yes

2.

A. Yes

3.

A. Yes

4.

A. Yes


5. The Independent Review will be done by:


#1 =C
#2 =A
#3 =B
#4 =D

1.
A. Yes


2.
A. Yes


3.
A. Yes


4. I accept all three steps of this provision:

A. Yes


5. The Independent Review will be done by:

#1 = C
#2 = A
#3 = B
#4 = D

BALLOT

1. All admin decisions may be contested.

I accept this provision
A. Yes


2. Disputes of a personal nature involving an admin can be resolved at the Bike Racks or by regular Arbitration

I accept this provision
A. Yes


3. In more serious cases, like bannings, or a poster feeling treated unjustly when having their posting rights restricted, etc. there is a more formal case from the outset and the procedures are described in the article on Member Rights.

I accept this provision
A. Yes


4. Members may contest in the following way any admin decisions made while excercising the routine powers of admins, such as edits, moving threads, etc.

a. The member affected by the action contacts the admin by PM or email and requests that the action be reviewed

b. If the poster and the admin can reach an agreement between them, nothing else need be done. If the poster and the admin cannot agree, the poster can ask for an independent review.

c. The independent review will decide to overturn or uphold the decision.
(You vote on who should do the review in the next question.)

I accept all three steps of this provision:

A. Yes


5. The Independent Review will be done by:

Please rank your choices:

A: Two other admins and one jury member
B: Two other admins and the mayor
C: One admin, one mayor, one jury member of the poster's choice
D: One admin, one jury member of the poster's choice, and the mayor gets to break a tie

#1 =A
#2 =D
#3 =C
#4 =B

_________________