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Admin Code of Conduct: Voting Closed

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truehobbit
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Posted: Thu 14 Apr , 2005 3:36 pm
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A. I accept all 19 points in the Code of Conduct

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Axordil
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Posted: Thu 14 Apr , 2005 3:56 pm
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Please Select A or B:

A. I accept all 19 points in the Code of Conduct

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Thu 14 Apr , 2005 4:03 pm
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A. I accept all 19 points in the Code of Conduct.

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Thu 14 Apr , 2005 5:27 pm
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A. I accept all 19 points in the Code of Conduct.


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Jnyusa
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Posted: Thu 14 Apr , 2005 5:56 pm
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I almost forgot to vote myself. :D

A. I accept all 19 points

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Faramond
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Posted: Thu 14 Apr , 2005 6:44 pm
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B.

I reject point (1) and accept all the others.


Reason: How do I know "the admin that person wants everyone else to be" is a good thing? What if that person wants admins who grant him or her favoratism? Just something that bugs me.


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Eruname
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Posted: Thu 14 Apr , 2005 7:04 pm
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B. I reject point 12 and accept all others.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Thu 14 Apr , 2005 8:38 pm
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People, just a quick comment ...

On these votes where we say what we want to exclude, I know it's probably frustrating because everyone dislikes something a bit different so it's unlikely that there will be a majority rejection of any one provision. If the majority had opposed it in the thread, it wouldn't be on the ballot to begin with.

But I do keep your specific objections recorded along with the vote tally, because when we get to the ratification process and the members are discussing what they don't like, if I know that a convention member has objected to something too, it gives more weight to the objection and the provision will be pulled from the charter more readily for later discussion.

I'm thinking especially of something like Eru's objection, where no one has come forward to explain it and I can't remember who proposed it. If members raise questions, that provision will be forced back into discussion without any argument (from me at least) and it will have to be defended or else thrown away.

So your individual votes do count, even if they don't appear to carry much weight at this time.

Jn

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Nin
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Posted: Thu 14 Apr , 2005 8:41 pm
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A - I accept all 19 points.

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Holbytla
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Posted: Thu 14 Apr , 2005 11:22 pm
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A. I accept all 19 points in the Code of Conduct

Although I am not crazy about the wording of this, specifically the bold text;
Quote:
You will not boast on the board about criminal activities or encourage other posters to engage in them, such as use of illicit substances, activities forbidden to minors, obtaining bootleg films or CDs or other violations copyright law.
This suggests to me that it is ok to discuss these things as long as you are not boasting. So if I state matter of factly that I have all sorts of ill gotten movies I am within the bounds fo this rule?

This is a nitpick, which is why I voted to accept all.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Thu 14 Apr , 2005 11:34 pm
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Holby,

I modified that provision somewhat because it originally read ... ah, I don't remember the exact wording, but it implied that admins should not talk about the stuff they do off the board if it is illegal. People objected tothat formulation (and I think you were one of them) and I understand the objection, because I don't think an admin should be forbidden to confess to having smoked grass in college in the course of a conversation.

But I wouldn't like them to brag about current use of illegal substances, or tell people where to get it, or how to skip out on download charges, and so forth.

If you can think of a better way to word this, so that ... conscionable conversation is allowed but ringleading is not - I would be happy to adjust the language. Can't really do that in the middle of a vote, but we could run a quickie amendment afterwards.

Jn

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Holbytla
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Posted: Thu 14 Apr , 2005 11:46 pm
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Quote:
conscionable conversation is allowed but ringleading is not
That works. :)

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Fri 15 Apr , 2005 12:12 am
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I had a feeling that would be your answer. :D

'Conscientious' probably would have been better ... I need my dictionary.

Jn

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*Alandriel*
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Posted: Fri 15 Apr , 2005 7:05 am
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A. I accept all 19 points in the Code of Conduct

Wording is even better now :D
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Nin
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Posted: Fri 15 Apr , 2005 9:45 am
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Holbyltla - also keep in mind that illegal behaviour might vary from one country to the other - just think of the Dutch that are here.....

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Alatar
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Posted: Fri 15 Apr , 2005 10:13 am
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I vote to exclude point 18. I'm happy with the others. The following is what I take issue with:
Quote:
• You will not boast on the board about criminal activities or encourage other posters to engage in them, such as use of illicit substances, activities forbidden to minors, obtaining bootleg films or CDs or other violations copyright law.
I strongly disagree with this. Criminal activities vary from country to country and one countries morality should not be imposed on all members of the board. I really, really think this should be removed. I think it may be a dealbreaker for many of the members here, myself included. I would not vote to ratify the charter with this stipulation present.

Alatar

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Leoba
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Posted: Fri 15 Apr , 2005 12:57 pm
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I would also like to exclude point 18, for the same reasons as Alatar has expressed.

I am content with the rest, subject to the following grammatical mistakes being rectified:

#2 – remove apostrophe in “agendas”.

#3 – add apostrophe to “administrators’ handbook”


In addition, if we retain point 18:

#18 last bullet point – should it read “violations of copyright law”?

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Fri 15 Apr , 2005 1:11 pm
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Leoba - I made those edits. Thank you.

Nin said, "Holbyltla - also keep in mind that illegal behaviour might vary from one country to the other - just think of the Dutch that are here....

And Alatar and Leoba objected to this point because of the differenes in laws between countries ....

We can check with one of our attornies here on the board, but I am fairly certain that it would not get us into trouble if someone in Germany encouraged someone else in Germany to do in Germany things that are not illegal in Germany, even if they are illegal here. The laws we have to worry about are the ones in the U.S., and the acts we have to worry about are the ones committed in the U.S. And yes - an admin should be aware of what it would be illegal to encourage people to do here, because having a board where illegal activities are planned could get us shut down.

Jn

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Fri 15 Apr , 2005 5:01 pm
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Alatar wrote:
I vote to exclude point 18. I'm happy with the others. The following is what I take issue with:
Quote:
• You will not boast on the board about criminal activities or encourage other posters to engage in them, such as use of illicit substances, activities forbidden to minors, obtaining bootleg films or CDs or other violations copyright law.
I strongly disagree with this. Criminal activities vary from country to country and one countries morality should not be imposed on all members of the board. I really, really think this should be removed. I think it may be a dealbreaker for many of the members here, myself included. I would not vote to ratify the charter with this stipulation present.

Alatar
I've tried all morning to draft a response to this. I can't do it. :( I literally cannot comprehend why this would be a problem. Why would anyone, acting as an admin, want to boast about or encourage conduct that is illegal in any country? There is such a disconnect here that I fear it can not be bridged. :(


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Alatar
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Posted: Fri 15 Apr , 2005 6:19 pm
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Voronwe,

Can we take this to either the symposium or the Business room? I would suggest that point 18 be temporarily removed to allow the charter to go ahead. It can always be added back in afterwards if the membership are in agreement.


As I said, I believe this to be a potential dealbreaker and as such it should be dropped until such time as it can be fully discussed by the full membership. I would hate to see the charter rejected over this.

Alatar

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