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VOTE ON WHEN TO OPEN THE BOARD - RESOLVED!

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Assuming that all issues regarding HOW to open are resolved separately, I would like to see board77 open (please note that the total votes for each of the first six choices will carry over to the next choice):
Poll ended at Tue 17 May , 2005 12:11 am
1. As soon as the charter provisions regarding the admins are ratified;
  
22% [ 15 ]
2. As soon as the charter provisions regarding dispute resolution are ratified;
  
4% [ 3 ]
3. As soon as the charter provisions regarding members rights and responsibilities are ratified;
  
35% [ 24 ]
4. As soon as the charter provisions regarding the mission statement, purpose and goals are ratified;
  
16% [ 11 ]
5. As soon as the charter provisions regarding the office of the Mayor are ratified;
  
3% [ 2 ]
6. As soon as the charter provisions regarding the ownership of the board are ratified;
  
14% [ 10 ]
7. I do not want board77 to open in the foreseeable future.
  
6% [ 4 ]
Total votes: 69
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Faramond
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Posted: Fri 20 May , 2005 1:52 am
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I'd like to apologize to Voronwe, Prim, and Jn for insulting their integrity, and to them and everyone else for wasting everyone's time on a triviality.

By the way, I think this serves as an example of how much trouble and time wasted one poster can make by himself under our system. A weakness, though I see no way of fixing it.


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Jnyusa
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Posted: Fri 20 May , 2005 2:51 am
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Faramond, you're always worth our time. :)

Jn

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Cerin
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Posted: Fri 20 May , 2005 4:00 am
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Nicely done, Faramond. :)

(I don't think it was a waste of time or a triviality; just the emotions involved made it problematic.)


Btw, it makes me inexpressibly sad to think that Prim might never again serve as admin.

Another weakness in our system, perhaps. :(


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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Fri 20 May , 2005 4:35 am
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Don't worry Faramond, some of us from Manwe are used to arguing with one poster on a triviality. :D

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IdylleSeethes
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Posted: Fri 20 May , 2005 4:43 am
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Some of us spend time in a world where there are absolutes and where things that seem trivial to most of the world are important. I spent 20 hours earlier this month on a problem caused by baseline dither of 0.0000002% that was outside of my control. That is equivalent to about one second in a day. It is sometimes difficult to accept that the rest of the world doesn't have the same perspective on the significance of numbers and their relationships. For most people, for most situations, "almost" is good enough.

I'm glad things are better now.


Cerin,

In one of the convention threads, I asked that we add an amendment to the admin section to make Prim a permanent admin. I need someone to second it. :D


Wow! No wonder they think Gore and Kerry won.

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Fri 20 May , 2005 4:54 am
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No way. Next thing you know she'll dismantle our galactic republic and show her true form as the Sith lord we've been hunting!


Wait... oh, sorry... I've just been to see the new Star Wars movie. I've gotta bring myself back to reality.

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Fri 20 May , 2005 5:18 am
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Yeeeeeesssss, my young apprentice.

Yeeeeessssss.

:D

(Just got back myself!)

Faramond, I can only echo Jn: you are always worth our time.

And Idylle, you have no idea what a monster I could be, if I ever held unchecked power. So let's get all those rules locked down and dump me out ASAP!

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Griffon64
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Posted: Fri 20 May , 2005 5:26 am
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Also experienced this whole thing through a Star Wars filter :D ( went to see the movie just after my post ) :D

Oh, what geeks we are! What glorious geeks :)

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Fri 20 May , 2005 5:30 am
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:grouphug: :D

(Pssst! Whadja think? I liked it. . . .)

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Griffon64
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Posted: Fri 20 May , 2005 6:02 am
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I liked it too. The best of the three prequels, without a doubt. Some awkward dialogue, especially in the beginning, and some wooden acting too in the beginning, especially from Obi Wan, but I liked it quite a lot. It was a fun movie to watch. And Anakin destroying himself and what he loves because he loves too much, cares too much, is an important lesson for life in general. That was cool, too.

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Fri 20 May , 2005 6:06 am
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I don't think it's that he loves too much, it's that he loves selfishly. He can't let someone go even to death because it takes the person away from him.

I wrote a little about it in Films.

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Griffon64
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Posted: Fri 20 May , 2005 6:15 am
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Ah. You may be right. In fact, I'm quite sure you are! I'll go squizz at Films and stop derailing the thread here. Very interesting perspective!

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Fri 20 May , 2005 6:51 am
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Faramond, your apology is more then gladly accepted, and I also apologize for my initial over-reaction to your initial objection. As for wasting time on a triviality, I disagree. I think that in the end board77 will be a better, stronger place for having had this discussion, since we all will be able to learn from it. And that is definitely not trivial.

:)


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Dindraug
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Posted: Fri 20 May , 2005 7:16 am
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Wow, everybody had an interesting time yesterday.

Just to add a query on this though, as much for resolving future issues as anything else.

Do we round up or round down, and who makes that decision?

Sorry, I had to say it because it did bother me. I am with both Faramond and Jny (and everybody else) on this as all opinions are valid here, but do we round up or down?

In this instatance, there is a bit of a faint acumpli (sorry bad spelling), as the isue really does not change that much, but it is possible in the future that a vote may.

Can we therefore have a discussion on weather, in principle, that we round up or down when we reach this situation again.

Personally I don't feel happy if it is in the hands of an individual who tots up the scores, it should be accross the board.

To use this example, if Veronwe who wants the board open counts, we round down to shorten the period. If it was me counting we would round up to lengthen. Not a massive issue as I said on the results we have, but what if it had been 0.005% either way on the board never opening? There would be hell to pay if the counters were the same and depending on the decision there would be a mas exodus from here.

So, can we discuss this? I really don't want to send this thread into a spin, and fights, and I really don't want to insult anybody or get anybody angry, butv I think it's important. If we need to start a new thread, let me know and I will, or if people think it should be something dicussed in the convention let me know.

Isn't democracy great.

.....

And on a personal note, I once had a job smashing up pentium processors when they had their dot point matrix error (it was 0.000001 apparently). I had to smash, with a hammer and chisel approximatley £3,000,000 (approximatly $15,000,000 or a small jet to our American readers) worth of the damn things a day for a couple of months. :rage:

I hate rounding, it leads to sore wrists and splinters of silica imbedded in your shoe...and dodgy body searches by overzealous security guards :Q

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TheEllipticalDisillusion
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Posted: Fri 20 May , 2005 7:41 am
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The standard in rounding, as I've understood it, is if it is 4 or less, round down, but if it is 5 or more, round up. How doesn this translate for what we do in the future, I don't know. I'd hope we can avoid this kind of argument again.



I liked this Star Wars, way better than the first two, but not as good as Empire. I said more in the movies forum.

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*Alandriel*
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Posted: Fri 20 May , 2005 8:11 am
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I'm very glad to see this settled :) and yes, I do hope we won't have to do something similar like this again. The point Din brings up is important though.

I have the same impression than TED though on the 5 mark I'm not sure but it makes me uncomfortable to just plain say 5 is rounded up. The way I thought if would go is then going to the next decimal (and then the next and so on) but since I'm not a math freak I'm not sure if that's practical or even do-able here.

Having said that I have no problem making a 'general principle' here that says 5 and more is rounded up, 4 and less is rounded down so long as the majority here agrees to that.

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truehobbit
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Posted: Fri 20 May , 2005 11:52 am
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It's less a majority agreement than a math rule, I think! ;)

You round up from .5 or higher and down from .4, like TED said.

One question that arises is whether to round mathematically or "kaufmännisch"- not sure what's it in English, maybe something like "bookkeeping-style"?
If I'm not mistaken, rounding mathematically means considering all digits, while "kaufmännisch" ignores everything from the fourth digit on.

So, 2.4448746 mathematically rounds to 2.45 but 'kaufmännisch' it rounds to 2.44.
On further rounding this would mean 2.45 becomes 2.5 and finally 3, while 2.44 becomes 2.4 and finally 2.
So, yes, better be careful when rounding to full numbers.

(Btw, I often have to round when giving marks - I usually twist it so that the rounding gets me to the better mark. ;) )

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yovargas
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Posted: Fri 20 May , 2005 1:01 pm
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In the end, I think Faramond's suggestion is best - no rounding, take the number for what it is.


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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Fri 20 May , 2005 4:04 pm
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I agree, yov, and I have thought of a circumstance where it could come up again. In a vote to ratify a portion of the constitution, we need two-thirds of the total votes to be yes votes. In the first ratification, it was certainly a complete moot point, since the vote was so overwhelmingly in favor. But if the vote were closer, this same type of issue could come up. If 66.6662 % of voters voted in favor of ratifying the section, that would be less then 2/3 and therefore would constitute a failure to ratify.

Fortunately the likelihood of that occurring is very small.


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Griffon64
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Posted: Fri 20 May , 2005 4:13 pm
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We should still decide what to do when we strike the bum luck of hitting that small probability, though ;)

*looks around for Murphy*

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