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¶10: The Archive Forum: VOTING CLOSED

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Vote for the Version you prefer:
Poll ended at Fri 13 May , 2005 12:33 pm
First Draft
  
7% [ 1 ]
TORN's Simpler Version
  
36% [ 5 ]
Cerin's Addition to TORN's Version
  
57% [ 8 ]
Total votes: 14
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Jnyusa
Post subject: ¶10: The Archive Forum: VOTING CLOSED
Posted: Sun 08 May , 2005 8:25 pm
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APPROVED TEXT

¶10 The Archive Forum

• The Archive is a Read Only Forum for all members.

• The threads in this forum contain parts of discussions or decisions that Jurors from previous Hearings thought might be useful to Jurors in future Hearings. Bike Racks threads may also be summarized and placed in the Archives if a Mediator or Administrator feels that aspects of the discussion might help future members learn the culture of the board.

• Names of all participants are deleted. Summaries may be posted without the permission of participants.
[approved May 12, 2005]

Last edited by Jnyusa on Thu 12 May , 2005 2:54 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sun 08 May , 2005 8:34 pm
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No objections here.


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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Sun 08 May , 2005 9:09 pm
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This looks fine to me, Jn. Of course admins can always post in the Archives—only a juror would have to be enabled and disenabled—but I don't think that needs to be said.

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Cerin
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Posted: Sun 08 May , 2005 10:58 pm
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Looks good to me.


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IdylleSeethes
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Posted: Sun 08 May , 2005 11:08 pm
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Let me first say that I can accept this.

I do have some questions about summarization. Since it takes effort to summarize, why is it worth the expense? It seems to me a simple index would do, if it connected you to the original detail. If the summary is written, is the intent to destroy the original detail? My questions stem from a background where summaries and abstracts can be handy, but when you really want to understand, you go to the source.

If this takes too much time to respond to, ignore it. It's just an Idylle question.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sun 08 May , 2005 11:19 pm
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It seems to me a simple index would do, if it connected you to the original detail.

Participants may request that the thread be deleted at the end of the Hearing/Discussion.

Since the majority of members who first considered this issue insisted that all threads be deleted, I suspect that most people who find themselves in the Bike Racks or Jury Room will end up wanting their trail erased.

Jn

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laureanna
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 1:17 am
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If we are going to have summaries in the archives, I suppose we could have one historical thread in the archives, that only an admin could write in, that has a post for each altercation, with the general gist of it, with or without names attached. It might be interesting in the distant future. If the bikeracks thread is also saved, this historical thread could serve as a chronological index as well, with a link to the full thread in the same post as the summary.

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Impenitent
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 1:47 am
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I'm still not sure what the benefit of the summaries is. In what way will it assist new members to learn the culture of the board?

Just ruminating here...don't actually expect (or desire) an answer. :D I'm not agin it.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 2:26 am
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laureanna: that only an admin could write in

I'd rather the jury member do it because they're already familiar with the case and know what elements they think important. Reading and summarizing an unfamiliar thread is an extra job for admins that is more easily done by someone else.

I'd also prefer that each issue or principle have its own thread, otherwise whoever uses the Archive in the future will have to read through pages and page to find what they want. This way the thread titles function as the index.

There's more in the sticky than there is in the Charter about how the forum is actually organized. Take a look at the Sticky in the Archives forum.

Cerin: If you think how many times we have referred in committe to threads in the Symposium or Bike Racks as examples of what we're talking about, and how many times we refer back to our experiences on TORC, I think that people do rely very heavily on past experience to evaluate current circumstances. The Archive is a concise way of given juries access to our 'past' without their having to rummage through dozens of threads in multiple forums.

Jn

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Impenitent
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 4:21 am
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True. :)

Though it does seem like a deal of work - and I wonder whether in practice it will be done? The novelty can wear off on thankless tasks.

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 4:27 am
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Well, the admins cycle through pretty fast—I think we'll be able to benefit from that, in that for many the novelty really won't wear off before they have to leave.

<looks around to see what else she can play with that she hasn't played with yet>

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TORN
Post subject: Re: ¶10: The Archive Forum
Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 4:33 am
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Although I opposed the archives, if they are going to exist, I think they can be defined much more simply in that I don't see why the mechanical information needs to be included. Below I propose a much shortened version:

¶10 The Archive Forum

The threads in this forum contain parts of discussions or decisions that Jurors from previous Hearings thought might be useful to Jurors in future Hearings. Bike Racks threads may also be summarized and placed in the Archives if a Mediator or Administrator feels that aspects of the discussion might help future members learn the culture of the board. Names of all participants are deleted. Summaries may be posted without the permission of participants.

*****

BTW -- IN CASE ANYONE CARES (WHICH I DOUBT :x :x :x) I WILL HAVE VERY SPORADIC ACCESS TO THIS BOARD BEGINNING TUESDAY OF THIS WEEK THROUGH FRIDAY MORNING -- AFTER THAT, I MAY HAVE NO ACCESS THROUGH THE WEEK-END. MUCH TO YOUR CHAGRIN, I SHOULD BE BACK FULL FORCE ON THE FOLLOWING MONDAY.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 4:52 am
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TORN - you're going to miss a bunch of votes! Would you like me to send you absentee ballots by email? That's worked pretty well for other members.

Regarding your text, I like it much better!

If others feel that minimum specification is acceptable I will happily change it.

Jn

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IdylleSeethes
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 5:44 am
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If the original is intended to be destroyed, a summary makes sense. An historian would cry.

I agree with Torn's wording.


What's wrong with having a disenfranchised attorney?

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Nin
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 6:28 am
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Summaries are better than nothing, but it is better to have access to everything - the historian in me knows how biased summaries can be...

Other than that I agree.

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*Alandriel*
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 1:09 pm
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The simpler version is fine for me - no problem at all :)

Jny - perhaps you need to use :pray: more. Coming from you, immagine what could be accomplished ;)

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 1:55 pm
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I like TORN's version, too.

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Cerin
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 2:19 pm
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I like TORN's version with the addition of

• The Archive is a Read Only Forum for all members.

and added bulleted divisions, thus:

  • The Archive is a Read Only Forum for all members.
  • The threads in this forum contain parts of discussions or decisions that Jurors from previous Hearings thought might be useful to Jurors in future Hearings. Bike Racks threads may also be summarized and placed in the Archives if a Mediator or Administrator feels that aspects of the discussion might help future members learn the culture of the board.
  • Names of all participants are deleted. Summaries may be posted without the permission of participants.
If forced to choose between TORN's version and the original, I think a HAL type of situation might develop.
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Eruname
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Posted: Mon 09 May , 2005 6:47 pm
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I'm fine with TORN's simpified version.

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Holbytla
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 1:10 am
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The simpler the better for me.

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