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Interim Vote on New Office: VOTING CLOSED

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Jnyusa
Post subject: Interim Vote on New Office: VOTING CLOSED
Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 3:46 am
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BALLOT
Interim Vote on Creation of New Office
[Note: this is not actual Charter Text - we are voting on the idea]

Question 1:
We will create an office whose function is to oversee hearings and ensure that proper procedure is followed. This person will be a resource for juries and all other participants in a Hearing. It will be their resonsibility to be familiar with all aspects of the charter concerning the Outside Forum, Member Rights and Responsibilities, Powers of the Admins and any other issues affecting Hearings.

PLEASE SELECT ONE:
A. I agree to the creation of this Office
B. I do not agree to the creation of this Office

Question 2: This office would be an elected office, similar in nature and duration to the office of Mayor but with a different area of responsibility.

PLEASE SELECT ONE:
A. I agree with this statement
B. I do not agree with this statement

Question 3: The title of this office will be:

A. Bounder
B. Counselor
C. Hearing Facilitator
D. Loremaster
E. Monitor
F. Proctor
G. Watcher

PLEASE RANK YOUR CHOICES with #1 being most preferred.
#1=
#2=
#3=
#4=
#5=
#6=
#7=

Last edited by Jnyusa on Fri 13 May , 2005 3:06 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 3:46 am
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Other titles are suggested.

Ax suggested 'Provost' in the other thread, "Assembling Hearings in Full." (Sorry, but the links are not working,) I have not added it yet because I would like to hear others' opinions about the connotation.

In our U., the provost is the chief financial officer. In the military, provost refers to the person who is in charge when the soldiers are not on their home base, or something like that ... a sort of subsidiary commander.

This is my take on the connotations of the various titles.

Proctor, Monitor and Watcher are synonymous functions, imo. They imply an overseer without decision power other than to say that something is going right or wrong.

Counselor and Facilitator imply a more pro-active role, but one of helping and giving advice rather than deciding.

Provost implies power to make decisions.

Bounder is from JRRT without modern meaning that applies to this office.

As I said in the ballot, judge and jury foreperson were removed because of their implication that the person is part of the jury or hearing process, which he/she would not be.

Jn

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Impenitent
Post subject: Re: Interim Vote on New Office: DRAFT BALLOT
Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 4:22 am
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Quote:
This office would be an elected office, similar in nature and duration to the office of Mayor but with a different area of responsibility.
I'm sorry to be a nuisance but could someone point me to where exactly in the charter the nature and duration of office of the Mayor can be found? I admit myself ignorant...I keep clicking on threads but can't seem to find the references in my skimming. :oops:

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 4:34 am
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Imp, we haven't discussed that yet. It comes after this bit (Dispute Resolution) and after Member Rights and Responsibilities.

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Impenitent
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 4:40 am
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See? Ignorant. :oops:

But in that case, what we are effectively doing is agreeing, without discussing details or permutations or implications, that this office and that of the 'Mayor', terms etc, will be decided when we discuss the mayoral office - and that whatever we decide THEN will retroactively apply to THIS office.

Is that right? We won't discuss terms and election procedure now?

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 4:41 am
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Imp,

Nature of the office of the Mayor, as it is defined so far, is in the paragraphs of Article 3 (Admins) that refer to the record-keeping functions of the Mayor.

Keeping track of admin terms of office is likely not the only thing the Mayor will do. He/she will also keep track of entry into the jury pool, it seems, and if the article about appeals (discussed in the full Assembly thread) is approved, then the Mayor will also sit on the appeals panel. Voronwe would like the Mayor to be the spokesperson for the board as well, but we have not discussed that yet at all.

There has not yet been a formal vote on the length of the Mayor's term, but a general consensus among the last committee that it needs to be longer than the 3-month admin terms, because the main purpose of having a mayor is to have someone who spans many admin terms and can keep track of who's coming and who's going among the admins. Also it was generally agreed that a longer term is appropriate for someone who: 1. must be very familiar with the charter 2. has no enforcement power and therefore cannot become an entrenched power.

When we draft the article on the Office of the Mayor (Article 4) we will specify a term of office, how he/she will be voted in, and how he/she might be removed if necessary. All those things will also be presented to the members for ratification.

What the members are ratifying right now is that the Mayor's office exists and that its primary function is record keeping.

The New office considered here is like the Mayor's office in those respects. The office would exist and its power would be advisory in the context of hearings. There would be no enforcement power associated with the office, but the person would have to know the charter very well, even better than the Mayor probably, and they would not be called upon to do anything very often (we hope - because we hope there will be few hearings) so a longer term of office would be appropriate. I believe that most people are thinking in terms of either six months or a year. These are the terms that were mentioned when we discussed the existence of a mayor.

I believe that most committee members are also thinking of these offices as elected offices, that is, the membership at large would vote on them. But those details will be ironed out when we write the Article on the Office of the Mayor/Elected Officials, and that is coming up soon.

We did not yet vote that the Mayor would be an elected office, so it might not be appropriate to specify something like that in this ballot, but I would like to include some statement that this office would be similar to the Mayor's office in all important respects except the arena in which they function, because I believe people are thinking about it in those terms, but I won't know until we actually vote.

Jn

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Impenitent
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 4:55 am
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Thank you.

I am very behind and I can't foresee any opportunity to cover it all.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 5:02 am
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Right now we are only creating the skeleton of these offices, as we perceive functions like this to be needed.

There will be an Article that goes into the details of each office, and you'll still be around when we start that article (I hope).

We probably should have had an orientation thread for the new committee members, because it is true that we are carrying forward from the last committee things that could not be fully resolved at that time, either because they were not a priority or because we didn't have enough foundation to work with. But you don't have to read all of the old committee threads. I've got on my hard drive summaries of the ideas that had to be carried from one committee to the next and I don't mind outlining this issues for new committee members.

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 5:04 am
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I have to say that I was thinking of at least a year for the terms of these offices. Six months is only two admin terms, meaning the mayor would know no more than the admins for half of his/her term and the "wisdom" gained would be available only for one further term. Entrenched knowledge is good for the board.

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Cerin
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 5:23 am
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Question 2: This office would be an elected office, similar in nature and duration to the office of Mayor but with a different area of responsibility

I'm wondering if 'nature and' is necessary or correct here. Would 'similar in duration' suffice, since we have already specified that it is an elected office?


None of the titles for procedural expert seems completely satisfactory, somehow.

We will create an office whose function is to oversee hearings and ensure that proper procedure is followed.

I wonder if we have erred in trying to fit a name to the function? I mean, the sentence above perfectly describes the role that will be filled. If we had tried in the same way to fit a name to the functions we've established for the office of Mayor, would we have come up with Mayor?

I would like to propose adding 'Shirriff' to the mix of possible titles.

Edit

I also think 'Second Mayor'* would work (in the tradition of 'second breakfast'), but you don't have to add that to the list (unless someone seconds it) :D

* though mindful of the vociferous objections recently raised against the idea


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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 6:08 am
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Quote:
Imp, we haven't discussed that yet. It comes after this bit (Dispute Resolution) and after Member Rights and Responsibilities.
And after the Mission Statement, Purpose and Goals. Those got moved up to after Member's Rights and Responsibilities at my request to accommodate my when to open the board poll. :)


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IdylleSeethes
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 6:33 am
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Cerin,

I toyed with the variations of shiriff too, but it is more in line with the office of admin and therefore inappropriate.

The difficulty in naming comes from the denial of common title for a person in that role, at least in the US. I'm not complaining, it's just that it does create an obstacle to picking a name.

Steward doesn't work since it implies a more active role in governance. It also conjures up the image of Denethor.

Edit:

Jnyusa,


Sorry I forgot to say thank you and I like it.

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*Alandriel*
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 6:48 am
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Draft Ballot looks good to me - and thanks Jny for the recap. It helps streamline brainwaves even to those who have been here since the beginning :)

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 7:31 am
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Sorry, Voronwe! I'm hopelessly out of date! :D But we knew that.

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truehobbit
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 10:22 am
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IIRC, we were going for a year for the term of office for the Mayor, too.

So far, I don't see any difference between the new office and that of the Mayor. Given that I doubt we need a "spokesperson" (so that would be one burden the less on the Mayor), I don't see why we need a new office in the first place.

I admit I haven't read the other thread, where arguments for this were probably brought forth. I just dislike the idea of so many offices in general.

Plus, I really doubt we'd find people who'd volunteer to be elected for such an office. We'll be lucky if we keep finding Mayors - now we'd have to find even more volunteers. Having to know the charter inside out, but not called upon to do much, and yet having to be at the disposal of the board for a long time - who would be willing to make such a commitment?

As for titles, the only one that is "nice" IMO is "bounder", but as this is someone who patrols the borders, it doesn't fit either, I think.

I'd also suggest Second Mayor, like Cerin said, or Vice Mayor. (These would imply that the person could take over from the Mayor, in case he or she leaves in mid-term and is needed suddenly.)

Hmmh, might try to think of some more names.

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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 1:00 pm
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How about "Loremaster" It's from Tolkien and fits the description.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 2:10 pm
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re Lenth of term: I too was thinking in terms of one year

Cerin: I'm wondering if 'nature and' is necessary ...etc

This will not be charter text, Cerin. I just want to see if there is agreement to create the office. It is similar ‘in nature’ to the Mayor in that there is no admin control panel that goes with it.

Second Mayor' ... though mindful of the vociferous objections

I don’t know how widely-held Maria’s objections are. Deputy Mayor would probably be less controversial, but (opinion here) the office does not have the same duties as mayor, so this title is misleading in the same way that Jury Foreman is misleading. We can say in the Article that this person helps with the Mayor’s workload, but their title should reflect their primary duty.

TH: I admit I haven't read the other thread ... I just dislike the idea of so many offices in general.

Summary of Pros and Cons:
Pros:
• There are two kinds of hearings where the Mayor cannot oversee - his own removal/curtailment of powers, and Appeals. A second functionary will be needed sometimes, and without preparation no one else knows the Charter well enough.
• Separation of judge and jury functions are complete, which is very desirable. • ‘Proctor’ can help Mayor with emergency workload, avoiding need to appoint admins.
• ‘Proctor’ and Mayor would each oversee any hearing involving the other.

Cons:
• We only need one elected official. The Mayor already knows the Charter. We are perhaps unnecessarily complicating the Charter.
• Hearings will not happen so often that we need someone other than the Mayor just to oversee them.

My own opinion: Two offices is not too many. Might be a lot of fun to have a once-a-year election for two people who keep all procedures smooth and tidy.

Alatar: "Loremaster"

I love that title! It also suggests some other service functions they might perform ... it sounds silly to talk about updating stickies, but we will have stickes and FAQ’s that will require updating and comparison to charter or charter amendments. We might also ask this person to keep their pulse on the Archive as it grows, so that they can point juries to correct thread when reference is needed. And ... The Annual Lutefisk Festival

I think there can be ways to make these offices fun and mildly prestigious for the people who hold them.

Jn

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Axordil
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 2:25 pm
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Love Loremaster. Loveitloveitloveit. :love:

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 2:25 pm
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I like "Loremaster" too! And I like the idea of making the offices fun. They are positions of service, not power, so there certainly ought to be some fun involved to attract people to them. Dividing the work will also help with that.

But which one presides over the Lutefisk Festival?

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Tue 10 May , 2005 2:34 pm
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I think we have a winner, folks. [but all suggestions for which there were no objections as to meaning are included on the list]

Well, there are plenty of ceremonial jobs to go around ... bestowing the Sacred Hazmat Suit on the First Bearer (who will certainly be you, Prim), bestowing the Salmon of Corrrection on the First Bearer (who will certainly be Sass), digging up the Lutefisk and escorting it to the ceremony, counting the number of people still in a state of profane sobriety, and when that number is zero, releasing the racoons ... :)

We'll think of more, I'm sure.


Jn

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