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Article 6: Age Restricted Forum: RESULTS POSTED

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Tue 31 May , 2005 1:04 am
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I'm going to go clean up the "Actual document" thread in the Jury Room so that the approved text can be added to the charter when the counting is done.

Jn

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Tue 31 May , 2005 1:20 am
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That's great, Jn. :love:

I'm looking forward to seeing the results too, but I am (hopefully) not going to be the one to count the votes. :)


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Impenitent
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Posted: Tue 31 May , 2005 2:44 am
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Was asleep when the vote closed so thought I could safely leave it until today (and if a few votes snuck under in the mean time, no harm done in my mind).

V, I'd be happy to count them seeing as I caused the work to occur, but don't know how I'd get the data. Is it all together in one thread? I'm willing; just tell me how.

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truehobbit
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Posted: Tue 31 May , 2005 3:17 pm
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Imp, that would be great if you could help - just about everybody else has opted out, and the votes need to be checked for correct counting!

I intend to at least list the results on a spreadsheet tonight, not sure if I have time for actually counting.

If it's possible, you could be given a copy of the thread (not sure if that's feasible, technically :oops: ), or if not, I could send you the spreadsheet, so you could check the count, after someone of the other admins checked the list of results (which I'd hope another admin would be willing to do,if we can't share the thread - it shouldn't be more than 15 minutes' work).

It's not all that much to do, because laureanna did an intermediate count some time ago, so we are already almost half done! :)

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Anthriel
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Posted: Tue 31 May , 2005 8:36 pm
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I know that the voting very recently closed, and ya'll might be just about to get to this, but I just wanted to remind the adminly types that there are still global announcements around which say we are "now voting" on this.

I wish I could help count.. I love doing stuff like that... but I'm leaving tomorrow and will be gone for a few days.

Next time!

:D


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truehobbit
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Posted: Tue 31 May , 2005 10:39 pm
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Well, the counting stuff is done - haven't heard from anybody about whether it's feasible to have Imp help out.

Maybe one of the admins will jump in after all.

Anthy, same here - I don't come up with great plans, my talents are more with such fidgety things, too. :)

Edit: I forgot - according to my count, all the A options won with a clear majority. :)

Someone needs to check on my counting, of course.

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Impenitent
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Posted: Tue 31 May , 2005 11:37 pm
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I feel a little helpless here - would be willing to do my bit but don't seem to have access?

TH, I appreciate the time and dedication you've given to this. :) What can I do? You want to send me the spread sheet? (and hopefully, I'll be able to work out how to read it - I'm a dud with those things :oops: )

I'm absolutely willing!

and Anth, thanks for the reminder - I'll remove the notice where I can.

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truehobbit
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Posted: Tue 31 May , 2005 11:57 pm
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No, of course you can't see it, Imp - it's in the sensitive info forum - so, I don't want to move it to where it's for general viewing, as I guess Prim had her reasons for collecting it there - and I just don't know whether the thread could technically be sent to you somehow.

I'd be happy to send you my spreadsheet, but someone would have to check whether I transferred the data to the sheet correctly, because otherwise counting would be a waste of time.

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Wed 01 Jun , 2005 12:52 am
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Hobby, it's a secret ballot, and your list has everyone's name and how they voted. That's why we can't post it publicly, or the ballots; that's why I collected them there.

I can do a count when I get back from my meeting in a little over three hours.

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Impenitent
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Posted: Wed 01 Jun , 2005 1:51 am
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Okay.

I'll cool my heels.

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Primula_Baggins
Post subject: Re: Article 6: Age Restricted Forum VOTE CLOSED
Posted: Wed 01 Jun , 2005 7:32 am
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RESULTS OF MEMBER VOTE ON ARTICLE 6: AGE RESTRICTED FORUM

These results were independently counted by laureanna, truehobbit, and Primula_Baggins, and our counts agree.

Question 1:
Disclaimer statement - A statement on the front page and on the registration form will state:

“Notice: Adult language is allowed on B77, but generally occurs no more frequently than in real life. We do require that members be at least thirteen years of age before joining. This board also contains an age restricted forum for discussion of topics inappropriate for children. The contents of this forum are not accessible to members who are under the age of eighteen, nor are they immediately accessible to the newest registrants.

All new Board registrations must provide their date of birth and a confirmation email from the member’s registration email address before membership is activated.”


A. I agree with this text: 42 votes (97.7%)
B. I do not agree with this text: 1 vote (2.3%)

This text is ratified and will be added to the Charter.


Question 2. The “Thinking of England” forum header will be visible in the index but access is restricted to those who have specific permission to do so. The forum description will state: "Discussion of topics inappropriate for children; not accessible to those under the age of eighteen."

A. I agree with this text: 39 votes (90.7%)
B. I do not agree with this text: 4 votes (9.3%)

This text is ratified and will be added to the Charter.


Question 3A. A member becomes eligible to access the "Thinking of England" forum after three months and 100 posts. After this time, a member can request access to the forum from an administrator.

OR ALTERNATIVE TEXT

Question 3B A member becomes eligible to apply to an administrator for access the "Thinking of England" forum after three months and 100 posts. Before permission is activated, two (or more) current “Thinking of England” posters must sponsor the new applicant. The sponsorship will be in confidence and will take the form of PM to the administrator handling the permissions, stating “I am willing to sponsor [name of applicant]” and will be in response to a notifying post in that forum stating “[name of applicant] seeks sponsorship to this forum”.

A. I agree with the text in 3A: 24 votes (55.8%)
B. I agree with the text in 3B: 13 votes (30.2%)
C. I do not agree with either text: 5 votes (11.6%)
Invalid votes: 1 (2.3%)

No option on this question received the needed two-thirds supermajority, so none of these options will be added to the Charter. This question will be reopened for discussion and a new vote, because more than a two-thirds supermajority of the membership did vote for some restrictions on eligibility.


4Question 4. Before permission is activated, an email with the “Thinking of England” forum sticky note information will be forwarded to the new member, who will be required to agree to the terms of participation in that forum as outlined in that sticky by return email.

A. I agree with this text: 42 votes (97.7%)
B. I do not agree with this text: 1 vote (2.3%)

This text is ratified and will be added to the Charter.


Question 5. Posters, when in the “Thinking of England” forum, must be even more alert to abusive or exploitive behaviour (especially taking advantage of another’s emotional vulnerability, youth, or inexperience in adult environments) than in other forums. Posters are encouraged to act on conscience when they witness such behaviour and to report any violation of the by-laws to the Administrators.

A. I agree with this text: 41 votes (95.3%)
B. I do not agree with this text: 2 votes (4.7%)

This text is ratified and will be added to the Charter.


Question 6. In addition to the criteria for jury eligibility outlined elsewhere, jurors for “Thinking of England”- related hearings are required to be ToE posters in good standing.

A. I agree with this text: 27 votes (62.8%)
B. I do not agree with this text: 16 votes (37.2%)

This text did not receive the required two-thirds supermajority, so it will not be added to the Charter.


Question 7. As a courtesy, new posters to the 'Thinking of England' forum are encouraged to make their arrival known to existing posters in a Courtesy Introduction thread created for this purpose in that forum.

A. I agree with this text: 34 votes (79.1%)
B. I do not agree with this text: 9 votes (10.9%)

This text is ratified and will be added to the Charter.


Question 8. It is the intention of the membership to stay abreast of any changes in the law that would affect their responsibilities toward the public where this forum is concerned.

A. I agree with this text: 37 votes (86.0%)
B. I do not agree with this text: 6 votes (14.0%)

This text is ratified and will be added to the Charter.


Thank you all for your participation in the discussion, and for your votes! (Prim here) I think this is momentous: this is the membership directly making decisions that affect us all. This is how it's done. When it needs to be done again, this is the model. :)


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truehobbit
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Posted: Wed 01 Jun , 2005 10:23 am
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Thanks for counting, laureanna and Prim, and thanks for posting the result! :) Sorry I said above that A had the majority everywhere, I didn't know we needed a 2/3 majority. :oops:

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*Alandriel*
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Posted: Wed 01 Jun , 2005 5:14 pm
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Just asking: eligibility for access to TOE will be re-discussed then and revoted on? I mean.... we kind of can't just simply leave it out of the constitution...
Like TH, I didn't really realize that a 2/3 super-majority would be needed on every single item.

Thanks to all those that have put so much work into this :)

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Wed 01 Jun , 2005 5:20 pm
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Alandriel, if we leave it out then there will be no restrictions (other than age) on who can join ToE and when. A troll could get in on the day he registered. People no one here knows could sign up for B77 simply to lurk on ToE.

Yet of the 43 votes, 37 were cast for some form of restriction, and that was certainly favored in the discussions leading up to the vote.

We need a different ballot this time, perhaps with different choices—just revoting the old one would probably still not get the supermajority needed. This means we do need a new discussion.

I think what we really need is to arrive at a single proposal and vote on it, yes or no.

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Axordil
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Posted: Wed 01 Jun , 2005 7:41 pm
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We should probably propose 3A then, since it got the most votes.


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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Wed 01 Jun , 2005 7:44 pm
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Unfortunately it's got to be two-thirds, Ax, and 3A did not get two-thirds.

Honestly I think the only way we'll get two-thirds is if there are only two choices. I would personally be happy just to put 3A up for a yes-or-no poll vote. But if this is to be part of the charter, we have to follow our own procedures and discuss it first, agree on a ballot, then vote.

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laureanna
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Posted: Wed 01 Jun , 2005 7:49 pm
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Question 3A. A member becomes eligible to access the "Thinking of England" forum after three months and 100 posts. After this time, a member can request access to the forum from an administrator. 24 votes (55.8%) of agreement.

Question 3B A member becomes eligible to apply to an administrator for access the "Thinking of England" forum after three months and 100 posts. ... plus more restrictions. 13 votes (30.2%) of agreement.

It is quite clear to me that the 3-month-100-post minimum requirement is agreed upon by a super majority (86%), and should be added to the Charter. The additional restrictions (sponsorship) listed in Question 3B failed to get more than 30.2%, and should not be added to the Charter.

I really don't think we need another vote on this.


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truehobbit
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Posted: Wed 01 Jun , 2005 8:44 pm
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Good point - plus, come to think of it, the invalid vote wasn't really invalid, as the person said they'd be fine with each of the three options. They didn't want to prefer any, which is not the same as opposing any, so it shouldn't be counted as such.

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Axordil
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Posted: Wed 01 Jun , 2005 8:49 pm
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Prim--right...I was proposing 3A be the one put up for the yes/no vote because it was the most popular....but...as Laureanna notes, if the choice was really for A or A+B or nothing, and the first two options got a supermajority between them...then logically A is it.

The vote wasn't presented in that way, but we have done that sort of thing before...the opening conditions poll being the most recent example.


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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Wed 01 Jun , 2005 8:54 pm
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We can't bend rules to save time or make things go the way we want them to.

If we told the members, "Look, we added A and B and got more than 67%, and so we took what was in common and put it in the charter"— anyone who objected to this result could and would cry foul. That is not the procedure.

The charter needs to have the full support of the membership and to be put in place by the rules we agreed on. That's why the two-thirds majority is required—a provision needs to have not just support, but strong support, or it shouldn't be in the charter.

The vote indicates strong support for an eligibility requirement for ToE. But that's just an indication, not a binding vote. We need to get the binding vote.

Edit: Ax, actually we are following the vote in the poll for opening. We are not opening until the board ownership provisions are settled—the provision that got 94%, not the one that got 79.7%. There was a lot of discussion, but that was the outcome: we're going to follow the rules laid out before the vote.

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