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¶8: Appeals: VOTING CLOSED

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sat 14 May , 2005 10:05 pm
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Yes. Didn't I do that? I could have sworn I did. If not, I'll do it now.

Jn

edit: Voronwe, on my screen it already says Draft Ballot. Oh, I see. YOu want the word Discussion taken out

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sat 14 May , 2005 10:18 pm
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I didn't see the Draft Ballot, for whatever reason. Not a big deal.


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Cerin
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Posted: Sat 14 May , 2005 11:48 pm
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Their decision must state whether to uphold or overturn the decision of the jury, and whether to void, reduce or uphold the penalty imposed by the jury. Any factors which they took into consideration should be stated honestly in their decision.

Is the part in red really necessary? Can't we limit the appeal to the decision? If the panel upholds the decision, than just uphold the penalty as well? KIS

Voronwe_the_Faithful wrote:
However, consider a situation where the second member just posted a political cartoon that caricatured Scalia being asked by a law student about sodomizing his wife, but was in no way obscene. There is no factual dispute over whether he posted it, just a dispute over whether the image really was obscene. The jury finds that the member should be penalized for posting an obscene image. In a situation like that, I believe the appeals panel should have the right to reverse the jury decision on the grounds that there was insufficient evidence to support the decision.
I believe this would be settled by the admins convening the hearing, and they would conclude that the hearing was not warranted.

Quote:
As I said before, if it is a question of credibility or another issue of disputed fact, the jury's decision should stand.

So could you clarify what it would be a question of? As best I've been able to grasp, it would be a question of the member disagreeing with the jury's opinion/interpretation of any element of evidence.


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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sun 15 May , 2005 12:18 am
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Cerin wrote:
I believe this would be settled by the admins convening the hearing, and they would conclude that the hearing was not warranted.
That is a good point that I had not considered. :)

Quote:
As I said before, if it is a question of credibility or another issue of disputed fact, the jury's decision should stand.

So could you clarify what it would be a question of? As best I've been able to grasp, it would be a question of the member disagreeing with the jury's opinion/interpretation of any element of evidence.[/quote]

No, it would be a question of the jury's interpretation of what the by-law meant. But as you pointed out, there would be a level of protection against hearings on allegations that don't raise to the level of a violation, so this is perhaps less important then I first considered.

See, I'm not THAT stubborn. :blackeye


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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sun 15 May , 2005 12:35 am
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Is the part in red really necessary?

Yes, because half the causes for appeal concern the penalty and not the decision.

Jn

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truehobbit
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Posted: Sun 15 May , 2005 4:12 pm
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I like the ballot - when I first read it, there seemed something missing, but I couldn't put it in words, and I think it's the new paragraph about insufficient evidence that was missing before. :)

Just a very small question, to make sure I don't misunderstand: the appeals panel just re-reads the hearing thread? Or can they ask for new evidence or hear new witnesses, too?
(It seems to me from some clauses that they definitely can consider new evidence, but at first it just says "they review the hearing".)

(Sorry if I missed something, this has been quite difficult to understand. :) )

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sun 15 May , 2005 4:18 pm
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Traditionally, appeals panels don't accept new evidence, but we do have a provision for appealing if new evidence comes to light.

In the U.S. court system, you can get a new trial if new evidence comes to light but I don't think it is the appeals court that makes this decision ... Voronwe or TORN can tell us how this works.

Anyway, I would think that if new evidence were the cause for the appeal. that would be stated in the request for an appeal, and if it were not, only the old evidence would be reviewed.

Jn

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sun 15 May , 2005 4:38 pm
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VOTING IS NOW OPEN

We'll vote for 24 hours until Monday, ~4:30PM GMT

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sun 15 May , 2005 5:23 pm
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Question 1:
A. I accept this way of forming the Appeals Panel

Question 2: :
A. I agree with this statement

Question 3:
A. I agree with this statement

Question 4
A. I agree with the inclusion of this cause for appeal

Question 5:
A. Yes


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Cerin
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Posted: Sun 15 May , 2005 5:30 pm
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BALLOT

Question 1:
A. I accept this way of forming the Appeals Panel


Question 2:
A. I agree with this statement


Question 3:
A. I agree with this statement


Question 4:
B. I do not agree with the inclusion of this cause for appeal


Question 5:
A. Yes


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truehobbit
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Posted: Sun 15 May , 2005 5:42 pm
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Thanks, Jny - hmmmh, I suppose as the paragraph about procedure in case of appeal doesn't expressly forbid considering new evidence, we can trust on the panel to rely on their common sense and use their discretion.
(I really don't much like using the procedures at US courts as precedents for everything we do here, so whatever they do or don't doesn't count for much for me, I'm afraid.)

¶8 Appealing the Decision of a Jury

Question 1:

A. I accept this way of forming the Appeals Panel


Question 2:

A. I agree with this statement

Question 3:

A. I agree with this statement

Question 4:•

A. I agree with the inclusion of this cause for appeal


Question 5:

A. Nes (or even, yes! ;) )

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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Sun 15 May , 2005 7:01 pm
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Question 1:
A. I accept this way of forming the Appeals Panel

Question 2:
A. I agree with this statement

Question 3:
A. I agree with this statement

Question 4:
A. I agree with the inclusion of this cause for appeal

Question 5:
A. Yes

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laureanna
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Posted: Sun 15 May , 2005 7:44 pm
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Question 1:
A. I accept this way of forming the Appeals Panel

Question 2:
A. I agree with this statement (but not the grammer ;))

Question 3:
A. I agree with this statement

Question 4:
A. I agree with the inclusion of this cause for appeal

Question 5:
A. Nes (that's a sorta yes)

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IdylleSeethes
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Posted: Sun 15 May , 2005 8:01 pm
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Question 1:
A. I accept this way of forming the Appeals Panel

Question 2: :
A. I agree with this statement

Question 3:
A. I agree with this statement

Question 4
A. I agree with the inclusion of this cause for appeal

Question 5:
A. Yes

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sun 15 May , 2005 9:17 pm
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Question 1: A.

Question 2: A.

Question 3: A.

Question 4: B.

Question 5: A.


Ah - now I see where you are getting the 'nes' from. Will fix. :oops:

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Holbytla
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Posted: Sun 15 May , 2005 10:39 pm
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Question 1: B

Question 2: B

Question 3: A

Question 4: B

Question 5: A

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Eruname
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Posted: Mon 16 May , 2005 3:53 am
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1. A
2. A
3. A
4. B
5. A

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Impenitent
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Posted: Mon 16 May , 2005 7:09 am
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Question 1:
A. I accept this way of forming the Appeals Panel

Question 2:
A. I agree with this statement

Question 3:
A. I agree with this statement

Question 4:
B. I do not agree with the inclusion of this cause for appeal

Question 5:
A. Yes

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*Alandriel*
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Posted: Mon 16 May , 2005 9:37 am
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Question 1:
A. I accept this way of forming the Appeals Panel

Question 2:
A. I agree with this statement

Question 3:
A. I agree with this statement

Question 4:
A. I agree with the inclusion of this cause for appeal

Question 5:
A. Yes

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Alatar
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Posted: Mon 16 May , 2005 11:42 am
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Question 1:
A. I accept this way of forming the Appeals Panel

Question 2:
A. I agree with this statement

Question 3:
A. I agree with this statement

Question 4:
A. I agree with the inclusion of this cause for appeal

Question 5:
A. Yes

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