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Discussion Article 2: Member Rights

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sat 21 May , 2005 9:51 pm
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Cerin, this structure is pleasing to me as well.

I haven't had chance to check that 100% of the text is there -- I'm not even sure yet that my rework of Voronwe captured 100% of the text and we'll all have to go clause by clause to make sure nothing has fallen through the cracks. But as a general approach, I am very happy with this.

Also:

Some rights and responsibilities are enforceable by procedures and penalties outlined in the Charter; others rest on the determination of all members to observe them. All are essential to our purpose of building a vibrant, diverse, supportive community where both conversation and signature pictures reflect our personalities, our humor, our genuine opinions, our artistic appreciation, our creativity, and above all our mutual friendship.

This is a very nice integration, Cerin! I’d like to use this no matter what else we choose.

But for this:

one or more secondary screen names if admins are informed at the time of registration that the screen name belongs to you, and if the screen name ends with an asterisk (*) so that other members will know it is not a primary name.

Could we pleae not keep putting secondary names into the charter until we’ve actually voted to change the existing rule. I am not yet convinced that more than 1/130 of our membership actually want multiple screen names and I know of 3/130 that do not.

Jn

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Holbytla
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Posted: Sat 21 May , 2005 9:56 pm
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I have one problem with your post Cerin.
It is too damn small !!!
I haven't had to pull out reading glasses in ages until now.
I'll get back to you on my take on your thoughts when my eyes recover. :P

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Sat 21 May , 2005 10:20 pm
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Cerin, Holby - I also get fed up reading long text in this 12 point font.

You can set the size you want, you know. I put the ratified charter articles in size=11

See if that makes it easier to read without people having to scroll to doomsday.

Jn

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Cerin
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Posted: Sun 22 May , 2005 12:03 am
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Jnyusa wrote:
I haven't had chance to check that 100% of the text is there -- I'm not even sure yet that my rework of Voronwe captured 100% of the text and we'll all have to go clause by clause to make sure nothing has fallen through the cracks.
Yes, I copied and pasted very quickly, so we must definitely go through it clause by clause.

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Could we pleae not keep putting secondary names into the charter until we’ve actually voted to change the existing rule.
Sorry about that! That was due to me copying Voronwe's text, but not taking the time to adjust the colors to show what was proposed only text.

I'm so glad you like the modified intro paragraph. It was your last suggested addition to that section that was the catalyst for my attempt. :)


Sorry, Holby. I've adjusted to 11 pt. as Jn suggested. That's easier to read while still being easier to see in its entirety than in 12 pt.


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truehobbit
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Posted: Sun 22 May , 2005 3:36 pm
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I like it, too - let's vote! :D

(Ok, ok, some bits depending on the outcome of the current vote - but otherwise I think it's perfect! :love: )

And I haven't had time to say thanks to Jny for incorporating the bit about personal attacks! :)

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sun 22 May , 2005 6:10 pm
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Quote:
I haven't had chance to check that 100% of the text is there -- I'm not even sure yet that my rework of Voronwe captured 100% of the text and we'll all have to go clause by clause to make sure nothing has fallen through the cracks.
I want to get the structure nailed down first. Its looking like Cerin may have found a formula that will work for most if not all, by combining the different approaches that we were advocating. :love: I'd still like to hear from Prim and others who strongly preferred having the rights and responsibilities together in the same statements.

If there is general agreement that Cerin's suggested structure, we can make sure that the substantive language is what we have agreed upon (including incorporating the results of the multiple IDs vote, and making sure that the enforceable rights matches the offenses that merit a penalty). Then we can decide whether there are specific substantive issues that we need to vote on, or whether we can just do a straight up or down vote on the whole text.


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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Sun 22 May , 2005 6:14 pm
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Well, I'm not so married to my point that I can't appreciate Cerin's beautifully clear formulation. If everyone else is happy with it, I can set aside my Primly or perhaps Protestant need to couple the Fun Bits with the Bits Where You Pay for Your Fun. :)

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Sun 22 May , 2005 6:17 pm
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I posted this in the Offenses that Merit Penalties thread.
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I know that I said before that I thought the rights and responsibilities article should be voted on first, but now I am thinking that this one should be voted on first so that we know exactly what the enforceable rights are.


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Cerin
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Posted: Sun 22 May , 2005 8:51 pm
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Voronwe, it strikes me as the reverse. I don't think the Penalties section inclusively determines what the enforceable rights are; I think what we choose to make enforceable is what should determine the inclusive list of penalties.

So I would suggest we make sure we have everything listed that we want in Rights and Responsibilities, make sure we think everything is in the right place (i.e., should it be enforceable), and then make sure everything we've deemed enforceable has a penalty in Penalties.

Edit

At this point, would it be possible to start another thread so that we don't have to keep jumping back and forth between Penalties and Rights?


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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Mon 23 May , 2005 12:02 am
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I have in fact started a new pre-ballot discussion thread on members rights and responsibilities, and I would like to lock this one to avoid parallel discussions, if Jn gives her okay. But we still may need to consult the penalties thread and see if there is anything there that we have left out of the enforceable rights or responsibilities.

Here is the new thread:

http://www.phpbber.com/phpbb/viewtopic. ... um=board77


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Jnyusa
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Posted: Mon 23 May , 2005 12:46 am
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Yes, that's fine, V.

I thought we would vote on both Penalties and Rights at the same time. Once they're both nailed down and mutually consistent we can vote on both.

Jn

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