I apologize for this at the outset. Words are to me what math is to Faramond, so I am compelled to work things out until they make sense to me.
We are formulating a list of rights, rather than rules, for the same reason I assume, that we preferred to reference a hearing on a community disruption (rather than a hearing on a violation of by-laws) -- because the rules are to serve the community; the rules are to protect the rights of the members, and it's the community and the members, not the rules and the rights that we wish to emphasize?
This would be a rule: you may not speak discourteously to another member.
We aren't establishing that rule, because we have decided we can't enforce that rule. It isn't a rule, it is a hope and expectation for a standard of behavior.
Yet we say we have a right to be treated with courtesy and respect. If we can't enforce a right, what sense does it make to refer to it as a right on a messageboard?
right - 2 : something to which one has a just claim b : a power, privilege or condition of existence to which one has a natural claim of enjoyment or possession
d (1) : a power or privilege vested in a person by the law to demand action or forbearance at the hands of another : a legally enforceable claim against another that the other will do or will not do a given act : a capacity or privilege the enjoyment of which is secured to a person by law
Lumping all the member rights together bothers me, because it seems to me we are talking about two different meanings of the word 'right'. Lumping them all together isn't accurate, and it doesn't reflect the reality of the board, IMO. It is misleading.
Some of the rights are guaranteed, and allow for redress if they are violated. Others are not guaranteed, and there is no mechanism for redress if they are violated. I simply don't understand the objection to laying out these rights in a way that reflects their nature.
I think that the moving away from including a distinction in this article of what rights are enforceable and what are not would actually remove the need to resolve the questions that have been raised about which section certain rights/responsibilities would find themselves.
We are just postponing that decision, then, until an actual dispute arises. Much better to grapple with the questions here, IMO, and give a clear indication of which offenses are enforceable, and which are not.
That's not correct, Cerin. The decision is not being postponed until an actual dispute arises. It is being made in the other discussion that we are currently having in the "Offenses that Merit Penalties" thread.
Thank you. As far as I can tell, assigning a certain action a penalty in the Offenses section means we are saying an enforceable right has been violated.
You seem to be saying, it's too hard to say what is an enforceable right in the Member's Rights section, but it's not a problem to say what is enforceable in the Penalties section. I simply don't see the difficulty in determining what is enforceable and non-enforceable in Members' Rights, since that is exactly what we are doing by defining in Penalties what offenses merit a penalty.
We could easily add a statement to the Member's Rights and Responsibilities article that said something like: "for a comprehensive list of what offenses merit penalties and what the maximum penalties for those offenses, see Article x, section y." That should remove any confusion, without requiring that we repeat the same information in two different sections of the Charter. If we list the "enforceable rights" here why do we even need to have a section on "Offenses that Merit Penalties"?
We are not repeating information. The penalties arise from what we determine are rights we can and should guarantee our members (i.e., rules we can enforce), they are not the rights themselves.
What I would suggest, if you are for some reason opposed to differentiating between enforceable and non-enforceable rights in the Members' Rights section, is to simply eliminate all the enforceable rights as rights (I feel it is somewhat contrived to refer to them as rights anyway), and refer to them as rules (the breaking of which is subject to penalty).
To illustrate what I mean, I have copied (with some changes of wording I think, I didn't keep track) the enforceable rules from Jn's first draft, and the non-enforceable rights and responsibilities from Voronwe's proposal. (I see no reason to separate those Rights and Responsibilities into two lists.)
Article 2: Board Rules, Member Rights and Responsibilities
¶1: B77 Rules
1. You may post under one primary registered screen name if you are 13 years of age or older, and you may post under one or more secondary screen names if admins are informed who the screen name belongs to at the time of registration. Secondary screen names will end with an asterisk (*) so that other members will know they are not a primary screen name.
2. You may create and register characters for use in the There and Back Again forum (a role-play forum) as long as they first record them in the RP Character Registry. LINK It is also your responsibility to post there in a way that does not prevent other characters from participating nor unnecessarily stifle the creative options of other posters.
3. You may post in languages other than English in your threads, ranks or signature texts, as long as the foreign language is not being used to conceal an insult against other posters or a violation of board rules. Posts in foreign languages should be translated upon request, preferably by several members, and the translations of posters should be trusted.
4. When posting in the Thinking of England forum (a forum restricted to those who are 18 years of age or older) it is your responsibility to post prudently and not expose yourself to unnecessary harm, to keep that forum free of ridicule, provocation, or demeaning posts, and to report violations of our by-laws to the administrators. You may not irresponsibly or maliciously reveal information from this forum in other forums or outside Board77
5. You may not engage in personal attacks or intentional insults that target another poster's nationality, ethnicity, religion, native language, gender, age or sexual orientation.
6. You may not post advertising spam, pornographic pictures, sexually explicit conversation outside of the age-restricted forum, and pictures or conversations of an offensively violent or distasteful nature. You have a responsibility to use good judgment in your own posts and keep them free of gratuitous advertising, spam that would annoy any reasonable person, and pictures that would disgust or dismay any reasonable person.
7. Your own computer should be free of internet viruses and you may not deliberately inflict damage on the board or the internet access of its members by hacking or deliberate introduction of viruses.
8. You may not use PM capability to harrass other members of the board. PM capability is a privilege and it can be turned off if it is abused.
• You may not use the board to solicit or encourage the participation of members in illegal activities. (Note: This shall not impinge on a member's right to speak freely regarding the shortcomings, ethical or practical, of any given law.)
9. You may not make threats of real life violence or other criminal acts against any other member.
A violation of these rules will be subject to the procedures and penalties outlined in the Charter.
¶2: Member Rights and Responsibilities (kept old numbers for the most part)
We strive to create a culture and atmosphere that will ensure the following rights and responsibilities for all members of Board77:
2. You have the
RIGHT to be treated with courtesy and respect by all posters regardless of their status; you have the
RESPONSIBILITY to treat other posters in the same way.
3. You have the
RIGHT to express your thoughts on any topic, no matter how controversial; you have the
RESPONSIBILITY to show respect, forbearance and consideration for the context of the post, the feelings of others, and the value of contrasting viewpoints, when expressing one’s thoughts on any topic, no matter how controversial, as this is necessary for worthwhile conversation among adults.
4. You have the
RIGHT to use adult language that is generally acceptable in written media; you have the
RESPONSIBILITY to refrain from unnecessary cursing or obscenities. We encourage everyone to use language that is clear and contributory (not spam or netspeak) without our having to restrict the expressions that are generally found in adult conversation.
5. You have the
RIGHT to post free of disruptions caused by the personal disputes of others; you have the
RESPONSIBILITY to resolve your own personal disputes in a productive fashion, and not to interfere with the resolution of other members personal disputes.
6. You have the
RIGHT to serve as an administrator, mediator or juror and to run for elected office; you have the
RESPONSIBILITY to participate in the governance of the board whether simply by voting when a quorum is needed, or by serving in some official capacity.
Again, I don't really grasp the significance of telling people they have rights on a messageboard when they aren't guaranteed redress if those rights are violated. That's why I included the wording Jn used to introduce her non-enforceables.
Thank you for your patience.