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Jnyusa
Post subject: Rotating Discussion Leadership
Posted: Mon 16 May , 2005 6:27 pm
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I don’t know how people want to do this --- either Alandriel takes over, people volunteer, we vote on someone -- it doesn’t matter to me.

I’m posting an updated agenda in the second post of this thread so you can see what’s left to do. The agenda is greatly simplified at this point because we’ve finished all those little detailed paragraphs.

So here’s basically what I do:

• Working from the agenda, I post a discussion thread for the item.

• I’ve been setting aside the first three posts in the thread, but I think now you’ll only need two or even one, because we don’t have prior member decisions to deal with. The first post contains the text as it develops and the second post contains any commentary (agenda, member comments, etc) that the committee needs to consider. One thing I had posted in every discussion thread was an outline of the Charter, but I’ve made that a sticky thread now, so you don’t have to repeat it for every issue.CHARTER OUTLINE

• I update the first post of the thread as member comments are made and options are offered.

• When a draft ballot is ready, I email all the members (and I’ll send the email list to whomever replaces me) and give them the link. I also place a post in the Convention Voting Schedule thread, and if I know when the vote is likely to begin, I post that estimate along with the link.

• When the vote opens, I email all the members with the link and update the Convention Voting Schedule thread, telling when the vote ends.

• If the vote is a full ballot that members paste in the thread, I have three Word files on every vote: a file with the ballot, a file where I’ve copied the vote of every member as a copy&paste from the thread, a spreadsheet where I record the votes and tally them. If the vote is only a poll, then I only have one file with a copy of the ballot and the poll results typed in below it.

• When the vote is done I post the results. Then I update the first post of the thread showing the approved text, and I copy the approved text into the Charter: Actual Document So Far

That’s it. Doesn’t sound like much, but the updating, color coding, and vote counting has been pushing on twenty hours a week. I kept thinking things would get simpler as we got more behind us, but that hasn’t really been the case.

Jn

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Mon 16 May , 2005 6:28 pm
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***** Remaining Agenda *****

PART III: Mission Statement and Key Principles

... A. Mission Statement: this defines the purpose for which the board exists. It allows future members to decide whether their goals and strategies are consistent with the Mission of the board. This statement is usually simple and comprehensive - one or two paragraphs long.

...... 1. Create a list of elements that belong in the Mission Statement (do not write actual text yet)
...... 2. Use these elements as the starting point for the Key Principles

... B. Key Principles: these elaborate on elements of the Mission Statement, to capture our recognition of potential strengths and weaknesses.

...... 1. Identify the strengths and weakness associated with each element
...... 2. Write principles that build on the strengths and minimize the weaknesses

... C. Write Draft of Mission Statement and Key Principles simulataneously

....D. Collect quotations from the country constitutions of our members for inclusion in the Key Principles (something the members expressed a desire to do; not usually part of a charter and not obligatory but not forbidden either)

INTERIM RATIFICATION

.....E. Goals: Our goals for the immediate future of the board. Our ideas about how we will grow and solidify. They should be consistent with the Mission Statement and the analysis of strengths and weakness.

PART IV: Back to By-Laws

... A. Article on the Mayor's Office
....... Complete Article 4, ¶7: Hearings to remove elected officail

... B. Ownership structure

INTERIM RATIFICATION

... C. Develop list of additional categories of By-law that must be created
......1. Amending the charter
......2. Binding Votes: definitions of a quorum
......3. Anything required by ownership structure
......4. Secondary ID's
......5. Anything else that surfaces

... D. Review for consistency: a subcommittee should check that by-laws do not contradict one another, that everything is called by the same name throughout, etc. If changes require a vote, these can be voted on and included as an addendum to the final ratification vote

... E. Any elements removed from the charter during the member discussion because of controversy should be re-opened for discussion here, and attempt made to redraft something consistent with expressed member wishes. These can be included as an addendum to the final ratification vote

FINAL RATIFICATION

PART V: Secondary Documents Drafted

Front Page Statement, FAQs and Stickies, Administrative Handbook, Jury Handbook, and any others that appear to be needed and have not yet been written

Last edited by Jnyusa on Mon 23 May , 2005 3:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Mon 16 May , 2005 6:29 pm
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[Note: this post was edited in to the space reserved for it on May 21, 2005]

I wanted to put a suggested process in this thread so that Voronwe can start his own discussion thread for Mission, etc., and control it from the beginning.

Mission Statement and Key Principles

A Mission Statement is short. One paragraph, two at the most. It answers the questions, “How did we get into this? Why are we here?”

We should not try to perfect the Mission Statement until we have written our Key Principles as well. They belong together.

In a charter for a non-profit or business organization, the Mission Statement would be the first thing to appear. It would be followed by sections entitled Objectives and Strategies. Technically we do not have Objectives and Strategies because members do not join B77 to achieve some goal beyond their own enjoyment of the site. We are not here, for example, to capture the market in Tolkien discussion sites, or to promote a particular software. There are many facets to our community and they all exist for their own sake. So I have translated Objectives and Strategies into Key Principles. These are the aspects of our community which must be preserved in order for the community to be what the Mission Statement says we want to be.

What follows a Mission Statement - whatever it is called - flows from considering the strengths and weaknesses that we possess. These are usually interrelated.

For example, one of our strengths (imo) is the fact that our posters are international. It is very much a part of our character that we live all over the world and contribute ideas and perspectives from many cultures and languages. This brings with it certain weaknesses as well: English is not the primary language for all posters, cultural differences can create misunderstandings, our administrators have to watch multiple time zones, etc.

A Key Principle should reflect this awareness of both the strength and weakness, e.g.:

“We pride ourselves on our international membership and we value our diversity. We are tolerant of cultural differences. We guarantee freedom of expression in other languages and encourage the use of proper English which all posters will be able to read and understand.”

At this point, having decided that internationalism is one of our strengths worthy of being a Key Principle, we go back to the Mission Statement and make sure that it says we are an international community and not just a community.

So, we work back and forth between these two sections of the charter until they express the core of our being. :)

(Internationalism is just an example - you don’t have to put that in the charter unless you want to.)

Why is it easier to do it this way? Because you want all the parts of the charter to be well-connected to one another. A charter that is full of disarticulated ideas will fall apart very, very fast.

Under ordinary circumstances, one would write Mission and Principles first, and then the by-laws as needed would flow from these. But we needed by-laws right away. So we’ll have to make this work to our advantage.

Because so many core ideas have been discussed in the context of by-laws, all of us by now can think of the things that are most important to us without much difficulty. Those are the things that become Principles, and are summarized in very concise form in the Mission Statement.

Last edited by Jnyusa on Sun 22 May , 2005 3:53 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Cerin
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Posted: Mon 16 May , 2005 8:17 pm
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Alandriel, are you agreeable to taking over?


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Impenitent
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Posted: Tue 17 May , 2005 5:36 am
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Jn I read that and sat for a while with my mouth open.

Much as I admire your patience, fortitude, thoroughness and perspective (and sense of humour which has been vital in all of this), I wouldn't touch it with a very long pole! Oi! 20 hours a week!

Thank you for all you've done.

As for who takes over....

How about some hands up?

Alandriel are you willing?

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*Alandriel*
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Posted: Tue 17 May , 2005 2:07 pm
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:Q Yikes..... I totally missed this thread so far.

So sorry!!!!!!!

You know what though.... and yes, I'm going all chicken on you now and even claim non-native speaker of English as an excuse.. but I'd rather NOT be at the forefront of this. I have no problem being a second or just in the crowd :halo: Makes me terribly nervous and uncomfortable. You lot out there are so much better qualified than I am to take on a more active role in this - so please, someone volunteer!
I'm not at all lawyerly nor terribly organized. If no one bites, I'll try and rise to the challenge (no guarantees though) but seriously, I'd rather not.

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Nin
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Posted: Tue 17 May , 2005 4:13 pm
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Could we eventually do something like at the end of the last convention, with one discussion leader for each thread?

Hobby had taken one, and Faramond one, if I remember that right.

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Tue 17 May , 2005 4:57 pm
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No one answered. The noon-bell rang [at least somewhere ;)]. Still no one spoke. Voronwe glanced at all the faces, but they were not turned to him. All the Council sat with downcast eyes, as if in deep thought. A great dread fell on him, as if he was awaiting the pronouncement of some doom that he had long foreseen and vainly hoped might after all never be spoken. An overwhelming longing to rest and remain at peace in the Hall of Fire filled all his heart. At last with an effort he spoke, and wondered to hear his own words, as if some other will was using his small voice.

I will take the role, though I do not know the way.

:roll:

Seriously, though I agree with Nin that hopefully we can have different people lead specific threads, I also think that there needs to be one person directing the overall discussion. No one can replace Jn. I think we are all in agreement to that. But I also think that she has shepherded us through the most difficult parts. I honestly belief that just about everyone else in this committee is better qualified to lead it then I am, but if no one else wants to step forward, and there are no major objections, I would be willing to try my best, at least through the discussion on ownership, which I will likely be deeply involved in any way.


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Primula_Baggins
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Posted: Tue 17 May , 2005 5:03 pm
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I was about to nominate you, Voronwe!

<pouts>

You can count on me for any help I can give.

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Cerin
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Posted: Tue 17 May , 2005 5:33 pm
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I enthusiastically support the idea of Voronwe taking over leadership of the discussion.

Jnyusa, you totally rock! *Jn single-handedly light-sabres charter into submission* :fight:

Thank you for being so unstinting with your time and talents. Do you have any practical suggestions about how we could take more of the work off the shoulders of the discussion leader?


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*Alandriel*
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Posted: Tue 17 May , 2005 6:37 pm
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I'm definitely glad to have you as a volunteer Voronwe :D

And thanks to Jny for ALL you've done. My appreciation goes beyond words :bow: I still hope you will remain a pannel member :)

One thing seems missing though from the agenda (looking back into the second post here and which Voronwe has also mentioned) and I'm not sure just where it would come in: Ownership rights & duties. Right now on this free phpbb board this does not matter all that much (though apparently I've been somewhat cast by the phpbb guys into this role as the originator of this board yet they of course still own this place to all ends and purposes) but it will matter a great deal once we consider moving in earnest.
Would you rather hold off the discussion on this until later? I don't mind either way but I'd like to hear especially Voronwe's suggestion on this for he has implied that he'd be looking into something special.

And if you need a hand with counting/tallying up votes Voronwe, I'll gladly offer to help, though -considering the timezones - I might rather be behind you (as happened many times with Jny - she posted the results as I was still tallying up and when I saw no discrepancies I did not email).

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Last edited by *Alandriel* on Tue 17 May , 2005 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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truehobbit
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Posted: Tue 17 May , 2005 6:40 pm
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If someone is foolhardy enough to volunteer, I - er, I mean, thanks, Voronwe, it's great of you to volunteer! :D

And I'll be happy to be of help any way I can! :)

Jny makes it sound quite easy and straightforward, but I'm in total awe at how she managed to come up with a draft to discuss in the first place!

I led a thread once, and didn't find it easy at all. Sure, there wasn't much text to be created, so maybe it was natural I couldn't think of much, but while thinking about the first post I was very unsure whether I grasped what I should be doing, and during the discussion it was hard to know what was a definite suggestion and to be included, and what was just theory and brainstorming. I asked Jny so many questions that I doubt she had any less work. :oops: Maybe a second time it would be easier, though.

I was also thinking of dividing the work as much as possible.

Especially, with respect to the mission and key principles (I don't even know what they are for! :Q ), unless someone has some good ideas already to just post as a start, maybe we could just begin by brainstorming a bit, everybody saying what they think should be in there, and whoever leads the thread could create the text from that?
(That's because, if I think "mission statement", I must admit my mind is a blank! What is our mission? Um - to have fun chatting and getting to know people, I thought. :oops: )

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IdylleSeethes
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Posted: Tue 17 May , 2005 6:46 pm
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I knew it.

It was inevitable

I saw it coming.

It looks like he has the support of the military


Hail, Imperious Leader


:help:


Where is Brutus when you need him?

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Nin
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Posted: Tue 17 May , 2005 7:21 pm
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Voronwë, I will have less work from the first week of june onwards and from that week on am ready to overview whatever thread you will tell me.


You need people with some intelligence on this mission... quest... thing...

;)

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truehobbit
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Posted: Tue 17 May , 2005 8:08 pm
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Do you want me to provide the rest of the quote, Nin? ;) :P

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Impenitent
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Posted: Tue 17 May , 2005 11:58 pm
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Yay V the Vonderful! :D

Thank you :hug:

And thank you to everyone who has also volunteered to aid and abet...er...assist. :halo: And if Jn still has the patience and goodwill (I say this in the security of knowing the vastness of her goodwill) to poke her nose in and poke us in the right direction when needed, I have no doubt we'll get it done properly.

IS :LMAO:

No, no! I mean, et tu, lutefisk? :salmon:

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Wed 18 May , 2005 12:28 am
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Jn, will you be seeing the existing discussions on Members Rights and Responsibilities and Offenses that Merit Penalties to a conclusion or will you be wanting your replacement to take over those discussions?


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Jnyusa
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Posted: Wed 18 May , 2005 2:54 am
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Voronwe - I think you are an excellent person to take over the leadership!
Thank you.

I really need to end my leadership responsibilities by the end of this week, so I would appreciate it if you would take over the Mission Statement, etc.

I have a few things to say about the approach to that - to make it easier - but you are more than welcome to lead the discussion.

I was sort of hoping that Article 2 and 5 would be done by the end of this week, but I rather doubt that will happen. I saw Imp's comments about re-doing the first two clauses of Member Rights, but I haven't looked in that thread yet.

If people want to throw the first two clauses to the members and approve the rest of Member Rights here, I don't mind taking care of that last tally. I just can't lead a full member vote or a long discussion because I won't have time.

I'll stay on the committee. I should still be able to read and write here every night, but I can't keep sneaking away during the day. :)

No reason why other committees can't lead particular threads. It *was* easier for me when Hobby and Faramond took over threads.

Whatever is the last vote that I post, you can delete the Voting Schedule thread after that and start one of your own to replace it.

Jn

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Wed 18 May , 2005 9:18 pm
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Friends, Jn has asked that I take over leading the discussions regarding Members Rights and Offense that Merit a Penalty and I have agreed. No one has objected to me taking over the overall discussion leadership, so I guess we'll go on from here.

My plan is to try to start preparing a draft ballot on Members Rights and Responsibilities (including secondary ID's) by this weekend, with a vote tentatively scheduled for the middle of next week (although realistically it may not be till the end of the week, depending on what happens with the business room thread on secondary ID's). I'll also start working on a draft ballot for the offenses that merit a penalty discussion, but I'd like to delay a vote on that section until after the member's rights vote is completed, because there is at least one issue in member's rights that will effect the choices on the other one.

Once those two votes are completed, both dispute resolution and member's rights can go to the members for ratification. At that point, following Jn's lead I will give current committee members a chance to take a break and other people a chance to volunteer to join (or rejoin, as the case may be).

The remaining discussions that will be left to be handled are our Mission Statement, our Goals, our Principles [edit: not purpose :roll:], the Mayor position, the ownership issue, and the issues regarding amending the charter. I would like to run the discussions on the Mayor position (since it was my original suggestion), and the ownership question (since I need to do a significant amount of work on the question of creating a non-profit corporation to facillitate member ownership anyway). I would request that anyone who would like to help lead one of the other four discussions PM me. If you can, let me know which discussion you would prefer to lead, and a backup choice. Or if you just want to help out and you don't care which one, let me know that. If we're really lucky, it will work out fairly easily. In any event, I'm sure we'll be able to work it out. :)

Edit: On second thought, maybe volunteers should post here, so that others see who is volunteering for what. Unless you don't want others to know for some reason, in which case, PM me. Are we having fun yet?

Last edited by Voronwë_the_Faithful on Wed 18 May , 2005 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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*Alandriel*
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Posted: Wed 18 May , 2005 10:02 pm
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:love: most excellent and thanks Voronwe for shouldering a big junk :)

I don't want to re-iterate just for what sections you need volunteers as discussion leaders but rather wanted to include Jny's original agenda here for quick and easy reference to those that might come forward:

- Mission Statement & Key Principles: this defines the purpose for which the board exists. It allows future members to decide whether their goals and strategies are consistent with the Mission of the board. This statement is usually simple and comprehensive - one or two paragraphs long.

1. Create a list of elements that belong in the Mission Statement
2. Identify the strengths and weakness associated with each element
3. Create first-draft of the Key Principles
4. Collect quotations from the country constitutions of our members
for inclusion
5. Create a semi-final draft of the Mission Statement and corresponding Principles

- Goals: Our goals for the immediate future of the board. They should be consistent with the Mission Statement and the analysis of strengths and weakness. And they become part of our Front Page Statement. [example: B77dotcom will be non-profit]
A. Develop list of goals that seem to capture the direction the board is
going in
1. compare to draft mission statement and analysis of strengths and
weakness and refine
2. Lay out a plan for the board for the coming year

- Purpose is the same as Key principles? Sorry but it's so easy for a non native English speaker to get terribly confused :help:

- new bylaws:
how to change the constitution
any other possible additons

Hope that helps :)
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