board77

DRAFT BALLOT #26

Please read the ballot carefully. We will vote on each section of this Article separately. Where clauses or parts of clauses are shown in blue, you will have a question concerning the inclusion and/or wording. After you have voted on the items shown in blue, you will be asked to either approve the rest of the clauses in their entirety, or to state which clauses you wish to have removed.

Question 1: Approval of opening text.

TEXT:
Article 2: Member Rights and Responsibilities
Some rights and responsibilities are enforceable by procedures and penalties outlined in the Charter; others rest on the determination of all members to observe them. All are essential to our purpose of building a vibrant, diverse, supportive community where both conversation and signature pictures reflect our personalities, our humor, our genuine opinions, our artistic appreciation, our creativity, and above all our mutual friendship.

PLEASE SELECT ONE:
A. I approve the opening text
B. I do not approve the opening text

PLEASE READ THE TEXT OF ¶1, A. Rights. below, and answer the questions that follow.

¶1: Rights and responsibilities enforceable by procedures and penalties outlined in the Charter

A. You have the right:

1. To post under one registered screen name if you are 13 years of age or older.

2. To create and register characters for use in the There and Back Again forum (a role-play forum). They must be recorded in the RP Character Registry. LINK

3. To post in our Thinking of England forum (a forum restricted to those who are 18 years of age or older) once you have met the eligibility requirements

4. To address personal disputes in the Bike Racks forum, and in other forums to post free of disruptions caused by the personal disputes of others.

5. To post in languages other than English in threads, ranks or signature texts.

6. To post without confronting advertising spam, pornographic pictures, sexually explicit conversation outside of the age-restricted forum, and pictures or conversations of an offensively violent or distasteful nature.

7. To a Hearing if you are accused of violating the by-laws; to appeal a Hearing under certain circumstances; to petition for the reversal of a ban under certain circumstances. You must abide by the decisions of our juries and use proper procedure when contesting the decisions of administrators or jurors. Refer to Article 4 of our Charter for a full explanation of your rights under any dispute procedure.

8. To petition the administrators for redress if you believe that your other rights have been violated.

Question 2: Concerning 4. To address personal disputes in the Bike Racks forum, and in other forums to post free of disruptions caused by the personal disputes of others. This right is also listed in the unenforceable section (#21 below). There is a question of where it should appear, whether in enforceables, in unenforceables or in both sections, because admins have the power to split argumentative threads and send them to the Bike Racks, but we cannot force members to participate in a Bike Racks thread.

PLEASE CHOOSE ONE:

A. I want this right to be included here (under enforceable rights).

B. I do not want this right to be included here (under enforceable rights).

Question 3: Concerning the inclusion of 8. To petition the administrators for redress if you believe that your other rights have been violated.

PLEASE SELECT ONE:
A. I want this clause to appear in the Charter.
B. This clause is unnecessary and should be removed.

Question 4: Concerning the other clauses of ¶1, A. Rights

PLEASE SELECT ONE:
A. I approve of all the remaining clauses
B. I wish to remove clause [#] (list by number all clauses you wish to remove)

PLEASE READ THE TEXT OF ¶1, B. Responsibilities below, and answer the question that follow.

B. You have the Responsibility:

9. To provide a valid email address and to state truthfully your age for board access or entry into any forum with age restrictions.

10. To refrain from personal attacks or intentional insults that target another member's nationality, ethnicity, religion, native language, gender, age or sexual orientation, to remove any unintentional insults of this nature upon request, and to refrain from using a foreign language to conceal insults of this nature.

11. To role-play within the guidelines set by the story originator, and in a way that does not prevent other characters from participating or unnecessarily stifle the creative options of other posters.

12. To post prudently in the Thinking of England forum and not expose yourself to unnecessary harm. That forum should be free of ridicule, provocation, or demeaning posts and you should report violations to the administrators. You must also refrain from maliciously spreading information posted by others in that forum.

13. To keep your posts free of gratuitous advertising, spam that would annoy any reasonable person, and pictures that would disgust or dismay any reasonable person.

14. To refrain from inflicting damage on the board or the internet access of its members, either deliberately or through negligence, by hacking or introducing viruses.

15. To refrain from using PM capability to harrass other members of the board.

16. To refrain from soliciting or encouraging the participation of members in illegal activities; but this does not impinge on your right to speak
freely about the shortcomings, ethical or practical, of any given law.

17. To refrain from threatening real life violence or other criminal acts against other members.

Question 5: Concerning 10. To refrain from personal attacks or intentional insults that target another member's nationality, ethnicity, religion, native language, gender, age or sexual orientation, to remove any unintentional insults of this nature upon request, and to refrain from using a foreign language to conceal insults of this nature.


PLEASE RANK YOUR CHOICES with #1 being most preferred:

A. I want the text in blue to appear as it does now.

B. I want the phrase personal attacks to be removed but wish to retain the phrase , to remove any unintentional insults of this nature upon request.

C. I want the phrase , to remove any unintentional insults of this nature upon request, to be removed but wish to retain the phrase personal attacks.

D. I want both phrases in blue removed.

#1=
#2=
#3=
#4=

Question 6: Concerning the other clauses of ¶1, B. Responbilities

PLEASE SELECT ONE:
A. I approve all of the other clauses
B. I wish to remove clause [#] (list by number all clauses you wish to
remove)

PLEASE READ THE TEXT OF ¶2 below, and answer the questions that follow.

¶2: Rights and responsibilities that rest on the determination of all members to keep Board77 a pleasant place for all to post but are not enforceable by procedures and penalties outlined in the Charter.

You have the right:

18. To be treated with courtesy and respect by all posters regardless of their status and the responsibility to treat others likewise.

19. To express your thoughts on any topic, as long as you post with respect, forbearance and consideration for the context, the feelings of others, the value of contrasting viewpoints, and without making personal attacks against other posters.

20. To use adult language that is generally acceptable in written media or adult conversation, along with the responsibility to refrain from unnecessary cursing or obscenities. We encourage everyone to use language that is clear and contributory (not spam or netspeak) without our having to restrict the expressions that are generally found in adult conversation.

21. To post free of disruptions caused by the personal disputes of others; and the right to address a personal dispute with another member in the Bike Racks forum if the other member agrees. You are also entitled to mediation. It is your responsibility to resolve your own personal disputes in a productive fashion, and not to interfere with other members who are doing the same.

22. To serve as an administrator, mediator or juror and to run for elected office. It is also your responsibility to participate in the governance of the board whether simply by voting when a quorum is needed, or by serving in some official capacity.

Question 7: Concerning the the title of this paragraph:¶2: Rights and responsibilities that rest on the determination of all members to keep Board77 a pleasant place for all to post but are not enforceable by procedures and penalties outlined in the Charter.

PLEASE SELECT ONE
A. I want the title to include both the text in red and the text in blue.
B. I want the title to include the text in red but not the text in blue.


Question 8: Concerning 21. The right to post free of disruptions caused by the personal disputes of others; and the right to address a personal dispute with another member in the Bike Racks forum if the other member agrees. You are also entitled to mediation. It is your responsibility to resolve your own personal disputes in a productive fashion, and not to interfere with other members who are doing the same.

A. I do not want this clause to to be included here (under unenforceable rights).

B. I want the blue text only to to be included in this section, without the opening sentence shown in green.

C. I want both the opening text shown in green and the rest of the text shown in blue to be included in this section.

PLEASE RANK YOUR CHOICES with #1 being most preferred:

#1=
#2=
#3=

Question 9: Concerning the other clauses in ¶2:

PLEASE SELECT ONE:

A. I approve all of the other clauses
B. I wish to remove clause [#] (list by number all clauses you wish to remove)

Question 10: Concerning the structure of ¶2, do you prefer that the unenforceable rights and responsibilities be coupled together in the same paragraph as above, or do you prefer that they be separated into to sections like ¶1, as such:

Quote:

¶2: Rights and responsibilities that rest on the determination of all members to keep Board77 a pleasant place for all to post but are not enforceable by procedures and penalties outlined in the Charter.

A. You have the right:

18. To be treated with courtesy and respect by all posters regardless of their status.

19. To express your thoughts on any topic.

20. To use adult language that is generally acceptable in written media or adult conversation.

21. To post free of disruptions caused by the personal disputes of others; and the right to address a personal dispute with another member in the Bike Racks forum if the other member agrees. You are also entitled to mediation.

22. To serve as an administrator, mediator or juror and to run for elected office.

B. You have the responsibility:

23. To treat all posters with courtesy and respect regardless of their status.

24. To post with respect, forbearance and consideration for the context, the feelings of others, the value of contrasting viewpoints, and without making personal attacks against other posters.

25. To refrain from unnecessary cursing or obscenities. We encourage everyone to use language that is clear and contributory (not spam or netspeak) without our having to restrict the expressions that are generally found in adult conversation.

26. To resolve your own personal disputes in a productive fashion, and not to interfere with other members who are doing the same.

27. To participate in the governance of the board whether simply by voting when a quorum is needed, or by serving in some official capacity.

PLEASE SELECT ONE
A. I prefer the first structure with the unenforceable rights and responsibilies combined in the same paragraphs.
B. I prefer the second structure with the unenforceable rights and responsibilies separated into separate sub-sections.
[Note that the results of questions 7, 8 or 9 would be applied to the text regardless of which structure is chosen.]

The following is the draft that Cerin proposed, with a few small edits and suggestions by me. Discussion points are in blue. My comments are in green. My thought is that we could vote on these and any other discussion points that are raised, as well as an up or down on the whole text. Please post regarding other discussion points that I have missed or new ones, or to comment on my points.

I would like to do a draft ballot after a couple more days of discussion, and to vote soon after that, if at all possible

_____________

Article 2: Member Rights and Responsibilities

Some rights and responsibilities are enforceable by procedures and penalties outlined in the Charter; others rest on the determination of all members to observe them. All are essential to our purpose of building a vibrant, diverse, supportive community where both conversation and signature pictures reflect our personalities, our humor, our genuine opinions, our artistic appreciation, our creativity, and above all our mutual friendship.

[I love this intro, but we should probably vote on its inclusion]

¶1: Rights and responsibilities enforceable by procedures and penalties outlined in the Charter

A. Rights

1. The right to post under one primary registered screen name if you are 13 years of age or older.

2. The right to create and register characters for use in the There and Back Again forum (a role-play forum). They must be recorded in the RP Character Registry. LINK

3. The right to post in languages other than English in threads, ranks or signature texts. .

[The question was raised as to whether it was necessary to be this specific, or whether it could be assumed that it is meant to cover these things, so we should vote on it.]

4. The right to post in the Thinking of England forum (a forum restricted to those who are 18 years of age or older) without fear that information will be revealed irresponsibly or maliciously in other forums or outside Board77, and to be free of ridicule, provocation, or demeaning posts in that forum.

5. The right to post without fear of personal attacks or intentional insults that target your nationality, ethnicity, religion, native language, gender, age or sexual orientation

.[There was enough discussion about both these words that we should definitely vote on their inclusion.]

6. The right to post without confronting advertising spam, pornographic pictures, sexually explicit conversation outside of the age-restricted forum, and pictures or conversations of an offensively violent or distasteful nature.

7. The right to post without fearing threats of real life violence or other criminal acts

8. The right to a Hearing if you are accused of violating the by-laws, the right to appeal a Hearing under certain circumstances, and the right to petition for the reversal of a ban under certain circumstances.

9. The right to petition the administrators for redress if you believe that your other rights have been violated.

[I think we should vote as to whether this should be included here, in the unenforceable section, or not at all]

B. Responsibilities

1. The responsibility to state truthfully your age for board access or entry into any forum with age restrictions.

2. The responsibility, if posting in the There and Back Again role-play forum, to do so in a way that does not prevent other characters from participating or unnecessarily stifles the creative options of other posters.



3. The responsibility not to use foreign language to conceal an insult against other posters or a violation of board rules. Posts in foreign languages should be translated upon request, preferably by several members, and the translations of posters should be trusted.

[I think there was enough discussion about the inclusion of both of these phrases that they should be voted on.]

4. The responsibility not to reveal information from the Thinking of England forum irresponsibly or maliciously in other forums or outside Board77, and if posting in the Thinking of England forum, the responsibility to post prudently and not expose yourself to unnecessary harm, to keep that forum free of ridicule, provocation, or demeaning posts and to report violations of our by-laws to the administrators.

[I think this part should be voted on as to whether it is enforceable.]

5. The responsibility not to engage in personal attacks or post intentional insults that target another member's nationality, ethnicity, religion, native language, gender, age or sexual orientation and to agree to remove an unintentional insult that targets another member's nationality, ethnicity, religion, native language, gender, age or sexual orientation.

[the first two blue words mirror the equivalent words in the corresponding rights paragraph. However, it is my feeling that the word intentional could be left out of the rights paragraph, but included in the responsibilities paragraph along with the additional language that I have added. We should also vote on whether this should be enforceable].

6. The responsibility to use good judgment in your own posts and keep them free of pornographic pictures, sexually explicit conversation outside of the age-restricted forum, gratuitous advertising, spam that would annoy any reasonable person, and pictures that would disgust or dismay any reasonable person

[is the highlighted language enforceable? Should it even be included? I think we need to vote on this].

7. The responsibility not to make threats of real life violence or other criminal acts against any other member.

8. The responsibility to take reasonable steps to ensure that your own computer is free of internet viruses and to not deliberately inflict damage on the board or the internet access of its members by hacking or deliberate introduction of viruses.

[Surely the highlighted language should either be moved to the unenforceables or eliminated entirely?]

9. The responsibility to not use the board to solicit or encourage the participation of members in illegal activities.

10. The responsibility not to use PM or email to harass other members of the board.


¶2: Rights and responsibilities that rest on the determination of all members to keep Board77 a pleasant place for all to post but are not enforceable by procedures and penalties outlined in the Charter

[my suggested addition to make it extra clear that we are not trying to enforce unenforceables ].

A. Rights

10. The right to be treated with courtesy and respect by all posters regardless of their status.

11. The right to express one’s thoughts on any topic, no matter how controversial.

12. The right to use adult language that is generally acceptable in written media.

13. The right to post free of disruptions caused by the personal disputes of others.

[can this be considered enforceable due to the bike racks forum?]

14. The right to serve as an administrator, mediator or juror and to run for elected office

[this is surely enforceable, isn't it?].

15. The right to address a personal dispute with another member in the Bike Racks forum, if the other member agrees.

B. Responsibilities

11. The responsibility to treat all posters with courtesy and respect, regardless of their status.

12. The responsibility to show respect, forbearance and consideration for the context of a post, the feelings of others, and the value of contrasting viewpoints, when expressing one’s thoughts on any topic, no matter how controversial, as this is necessary for worthwhile conversation among adults.

[Is the highlighted text necessary?]

13. The responsibility to refrain from unnecessary cursing or obscenities. We encourage everyone to use language that is clear and contributory (not spam or netspeak) without our having to restrict the expressions that are generally found in adult conversation.

14. The responsibility to resolve your own personal disputes in a productive fashion, and not to interfere with the resolution of other members personal disputes.

15. The responsibility to participate in the governance of the board whether simply by voting when a quorum is needed, or by serving in some official capacity.

Voronwe, I was wondering if it would make things easier (for reference purposes), if the current draft for Offenses That Merit a Penalty were posted directly below your second post in this thread. If you think so, please just delete this post so that it doesn't intervene between the two drafts.

Cerin, I can do anything. Bwahahahaha! You're all going to... no, wait, ahem, now where was I? Oh yeah, I just edited it into your post so that you could edit it yourself if you wanted or needed to.

¶9 Offenses That Merit a Penalty

The following penalties are available to juries:
• Disabling PM privileges
• Temporary Suspension of posting rights in a specific forum
• Permanent Suspension of posting rights in a specific forum
• Temporary Confinement to the Bike Racks (a suspension of board-wide posting rights)
• Temporary Ban
• Immediate or Indefinite Ban (per Article 3, poster must appeal for reversal no sooner than one month after the ban is executed, and Administrators may wait an additional two months before convening a hearing)

There are no permanent, irreversible bans on Board77. But when a hearing is held to petition the reversal of a ban, the jury is permitted to uphold the ban and specify a duration.

General Guidelines for imposing penalties:
• The jury generally has discretion to impose the penalty it considers appropriate as long as the maximum penalties specified below are not exceeded.
• If this is a first offense and the jury feels that the time already restricted to the Bike Racks or the Jury Room is sufficient, or if they feel confident that because of the circumstances in which the error took place it is very unlikely to be repeated, they are not obligated to impose a penalty.
• If the offense is restricted to a single forum (e.g. There and Back Again or Thinking of England) the penalty may also be restricted to that forum (e.g. temporary or permanent suspension of posting rights).
• The penalty ought to relate as closely as possible to the offense; for example, if abusive use of PM’s is the offense, then PM privileges may be disenabled.
• Penalties may be greater for second, third or multiple offenses than they are for first offenses.
• If juries are in doubt as to an appropriate penalty, they should review penalties imposed for similar problems in the past and try to be consistent.

Offenses for which the maximum penalty for a first offense is an immediate ban:
• Spamming the board with ads
[per Article 3, people registered less than 7 days are immediately banned, and must petition to reverse]

• Spamming the board with pornography
[per Article 3, people registered less than 7 days are immediately banned, and must petition to reverse]

• Hacking the board
[per Article 3, people registered less than 7 days are immediately banned, and must petition to reverse]

• Refusing to abide by the Decision of the Jury in a Hearing
[per Article 3, Immediate ban. Maximum penalty is mandatory and executed by Administrators. Poster must petition to reverse]

• Threats of real life violence or other criminal acts against members
[per Article 3, Immediate ban. Hearing is held, but if the charges are credible, the maximum penalty is mandatory. Poster must petition to reverse]

• Deliberately introducing a virus to members of the board

Offenses for which the maximum penalty for a first offense is temporary restriction to the BikeRacks:
• In the Jury Room, any interference with a Hearing.
[per Article 3: poster is immediately confined to Bike Racks for duration of the hearing]
At the termination of the Hearing in which the poster interfered, a Hearing for that poster is held to determine any penalty

Offenses for which the maximum penalty is a temporary ban if this is not the first offense and the problem appears to be persistent:

• Persistent posting of objectionable content:
•• abusive language toward another poster
•• attacks of a personal nature
•• defamatory remarks targetting nationality, ethnicity, native language, religion, gender, sexual orientation or age
•• advertisement of products for self-aggrandizement

• Persistent posting of offensive pictures:
•• pictures a reasonable person would find pornographic
•• pictures a reasonable person would find gratuitously violent or distasteful, that is, designed to shock and/or dismay other posters

• Using the board to solicit the participation of members in illegal activities

• Repeatedly exposing the members to viruses through negligence.

• In the Bike Racks, repeated interference with other members’ thread

• Use of PM or Email to:
•• harrass another member
•• make defamatory remarks targetting nationality, ethnicity, native language, religion, gender, sexual orientation or age

Offenses for which the maximum penalty is permanent suspension of access to a particular forum:
• In the There and Back Again forum, repeatedly posting in a manner that prevents another character(s) from participating or greatly circumscribes their activity
[per Article 3: more than one complaint must be received; admin suspends posting rights and convenes a hearing to determine duration]

• In the Thinking of England Forum, posting in a manner that ridicules, demeans or threatens other posters
[per Article 3: more than one complaint must be received; admin suspends posting rights and convenes a hearing to determine duration]
Last edited by Jnyusa on Sat May 21, 2005 7:33 am

Voila!

The Force is strong with this one.

And this is a lot of text. Preliminary comments:

Voronwe_the_Faithful wrote:

3. The right to post in languages other than English in threads, ranks or signature texts. .

[The question was raised as to whether it was necessary to be this specific, or whether it could be assumed that it is meant to cover these things, so we should vote on it.]

I'd just cut it now. . . .

Voronwe wrote:

5. The right to post without fear of personal attacks or intentional insults that target your nationality, ethnicity, religion, native language, gender, age or sexual orientation

.[There was enough discussion about both these words that we should definitely vote on their inclusion.]

There was discussion leading to their addition, but has anyone objected to their inclusion?

Voronwe wrote:

8. The responsibility to take reasonable steps to ensure that your own computer is free of internet viruses and to not deliberately inflict damage on the board or the internet access of its members by hacking or deliberate introduction of viruses.

[Surely the highlighted language should either be moved to the unenforceables or eliminated entirely?]

I think "deliberate" covers it.

Voronwe wrote:

12. The responsibility to show respect, forbearance and consideration for the context of a post, the feelings of others, and the value of contrasting viewpoints, when expressing one’s thoughts on any topic, no matter how controversial, as this is necessary for worthwhile conversation among adults.

[Is the highlighted text necessary?]

I don't think so. . . .

Those are just a few points where I don't think we really need to vote on a specific change.

Generally, if we're going to use this structure, we should review the text in all clauses, because things that make sense in one context may be redundant in another.

I'll try to go through all of this during the next half-hour or so and make sure that everything is there and that it is not too redundant.

Re the positioning of enforceable/unenforceable clauses comments:

(1)
2. The responsibility, if posting in the There and Back Again role-play forum, to do so in a way that does not prevent other characters from participating or unnecessarily stifles the creative options of other posters.



4. The responsibility not to reveal information from the Thinking of England forum irresponsibly or maliciously in other forums or outside Board77, and if posting in the Thinking of England forum, the responsibility to post prudently and not expose yourself to unnecessary harm, to keep that forum free of ridicule, provocation, or demeaning posts and to report violations of our by-laws to the administrators.

[I think this part should be voted on as to whether it is enforceable.]

These are both from Article 3. They have to be in the enforceable section, but we don't have to use this exact text.

I would in fact simplify it a bit:
2. The responsibility to role-play in a way that does not prevent other characters from participating or unnecessarily stifle the creative options of other posters.

I think that when I went through the text the second time I found a better wording for #4 and I'll go look for it in a moment.

(2)
3. The responsibility not to use foreign language to conceal an insult against other posters or a violation of board rules. Posts in foreign languages should be translated upon request, preferably by several members, and the translations of posters should be trusted.

[I think there was enough discussion about the inclusion of both of these phrases that they should be voted on.]

5. The responsibility not to engage in personal attacks or post intentional insults that target another member's nationality, ethnicity, religion, native language, gender, age or sexual orientation and to agree to remove an unintentional insult that targets another member's nationality, ethnicity, religion, native language, gender, age or sexual orientation.

[the first two blue words mirror the equivalent words in the corresponding rights paragraph. However, it is my feeling that the word intentional could be left out of the rights paragraph, but included in the responsibilities paragraph along with the additional language that I have added. We should also vote on whether this should be enforceable].

Generally, because of the redundancy necessitated by this structure, I prefer to keep each clause short and I am willing to give up having an exhaustive clause in order to keep this Article from looking like the list in the girl's dorm. The blue language added to the bottom of #5 is unnecessary, imo. I also agree with Prim that we don't need to vote on "intentional" and "personal attacks" in #3. And I am thinking that these two clauses can even be combined, thus:

The responsibility not to refrain from personal attacks or post intentional insults that target another member's nationality, ethnicity, religion, native language, gender, age or sexual orientation and to refrain from using a foreign language to conceal insults of this nature.

(3)
13. The right to post free of disruptions caused by the personal disputes of others.

[can this be considered enforceable due to the bike racks forum?]

15. The right to address a personal dispute with another member in the Bike Racks forum, if the other member agrees.

Yes, #13 is enforceable and should be combined with #15, thus:

The right to address personal disputes in the Bike Racks forum, and in other forums to post free of disruptions caused by the personal disputes of others.

(4)
14. The right to serve as an administrator, mediator or juror and to run for elected office

[this is surely enforceable, isn't it?].

In my opinion it does not belong in the enforceable section because members can object to a particular admin and the potential admin cannot demand a Hearing in reponse. Potential admins have to satisfy the expectations of members so it is a provisional right.

Regarding text refinement:

6. The responsibility to use good judgment in your own posts and keep them free of pornographic pictures, sexually explicit conversation outside of the age-restricted forum, gratuitous advertising, spam that would annoy any reasonable person, and pictures that would disgust or dismay any reasonable person

[is the highlighted language enforceable? Should it even be included? I think we need to vote on this].

For my part you can take it out. This was created to be consistent with the 'tone' of the original structure.

Jn

Per Prim's post, I agree that perhaps we can eliminate a number of potential votes through discussion.

(1)
3. The right to post in languages other than English in threads, ranks or signature texts. .
[The question was raised as to whether it was necessary to be this specific, or whether it could be assumed that it is meant to cover these things, so we should vote on it.]

I don't mind this addition; it isn't long or cumbersome, and does add clarification.


5. The right to post without fear of personal attacks or intentional insults that target your nationality, ethnicity, religion, native language, gender, age or sexual orientation
[There was enough discussion about both these words that we should definitely vote on their inclusion.]

I agree that your adjustment in responsibilities eliminates the need for 'intentional' here.


9. The right to petition the administrators for redress if you believe that your other rights have been violated.
[I think we should vote as to whether this should be included here, in the unenforceable section, or not at all]

I don't see why this wouldn't be in enforceables. There is an abundance of procedure for redress in Article 3.


2. The responsibility, if posting in the There and Back Again role-play forum, to do so in a way that does not prevent other characters from participating or unnecessarily stifles the creative options of other posters.


I think this is enforceable. It is specifically mentioned in Penalties.

In addition, I think it reads better to begin with, "If Posting in the There and Back AGain role-play forum, the responsibility, etc." I like Jn's simplification, but I think mentioning the forum might be helpful to the uninitiated.


4. The responsibility not to reveal information from the Thinking of England forum irresponsibly or maliciously in other forums or outside Board77, and if posting in the Thinking of England forum, the responsibility to post prudently and not expose yourself to unnecessary harm, to keep that forum free of ridicule, provocation, or demeaning posts and to report violations of our by-laws to the administrators.

I would suggest a rearrangement (starting with the positive and ending with the negative), and changing 'irresponsibly' to 'carelessly' (since a responsibility not to irresponsibly do something seemed awkward when more closely juxtaposed).

4. If posting in the Thinking of England forum, the responsibility to post prudently and not expose yourself to unnecessary harm, to keep that forum free of ridicule, provocation, or demeaning posts, to report violations of our by-laws to the administrators, and the responsibility not to carelessly or maliciously reveal information from this forum in other forums or outside Board77.


5. The responsibility not to engage in personal attacks or post intentional insults that target another member's nationality, ethnicity, religion, native language, gender, age or sexual orientation and to agree to remove an unintentional insult that targets another member's nationality, ethnicity, religion, native language, gender, age or sexual orientation.

I would suggest a reduction and clarification

5. The responsibility not to engage in personal attacks or post intentional insults that target another member's nationality, ethnicity, religion, native language, gender, age or sexual orientation, and to remove such insults that have been inadvertently posted, when they are pointed out by another member.


9. The responsibility to not use the board to solicit or encourage the participation of members in illegal activities.

For these constructions, I think 'not to' is preferrable, i.e., 'The responsibility not to use the board, etc.' and as that has been used elsewhere, it is better to be consistent.


(2)
¶2: Rights and responsibilities that rest on the determination of all members to keep Board77 a pleasant place for all to post but are not enforceable by procedures and penalties outlined in the Charter

I don't think that addition is necessary.


13. The right to post free of disruptions caused by the personal disputes of others.
[can this be considered enforceable due to the bike racks forum?]

I think this should be removed altogether. Even if these sorts of disruptions are regularly moved to Bike Racks, there will nonetheless be occurring (so people aren't going to be posting free of them), and there was considerable discussion about the fact that we can't compel the resolution of personal disputes.


12. The responsibility to show respect, forbearance and consideration for the context of a post, the feelings of others, and the value of contrasting viewpoints, when expressing one’s thoughts on any topic, no matter how controversial, as this is necessary for worthwhile conversation among adults.
[Is the highlighted text necessary?]

I would also eliminate 'no matter how controversial' (as this is mentioned in rights).


Edit

6. The responsibility to use good judgment in your own posts and keep them free of pornographic pictures, sexually explicit conversation outside of the age-restricted forum, gratuitous advertising, spam that would annoy any reasonable person, and pictures that would disgust or dismay any reasonable person
[is the highlighted language enforceable? Should it even be included? I think we need to vote on this].

I agree that can be taken out.


8. The responsibility to take reasonable steps to ensure that your own computer is free of internet viruses and to not deliberately inflict damage on the board or the internet access of its members by hacking or deliberate introduction of viruses.
[Surely the highlighted language should either be moved to the unenforceables or eliminated entirely?]

I agree that should be removed.

I think the addition to the heading for ¶2 is necessary.

[quote]¶2: Rights and responsibilities that rest on the determination of all members to keep Board77 a pleasant place for all to post but are not enforceable by procedures and penalties outlined in the Charter [/quote]

Friends, I am sorry to inflict another long-text option on you, but I find the parallel construction very annoyiinng when each paragraph of the Article is already divided into [A. Rights] and [B. Responsibilities].

(1) The purpose of the parallel construction was to make this linkage clear, but some items are more right-focused and others more responsibility-focused, and we can separate them within this structure.

Accordingly, I have culled the original draft (with subsequent suggestions) to remove the artificial repetition, and that means I have to repost the entire Article so that you can see how items have been redistributed.

(2) I do not think that the second paragraph (¶2) has to be subdivided this way. It does not contain enough points to justify this, and because they are unenforceable there is no reason to phrase them in a way that the relationship to penalites is obvious.

(3) I have tried to capture the debatable phrases in blue.

(4) The numbering of clauses is sequential from beginning to end so that we can refer to clause numbers without confusion.

*********
Article 2: Member Rights and Responsibilities
Some rights and responsibilities are enforceable by procedures and penalties outlined in the Charter; others rest on the determination of all members to observe them. All are essential to our purpose of building a vibrant, diverse, supportive community where both conversation and signature pictures reflect our personalities, our humor, our genuine opinions, our artistic appreciation, our creativity, and above all our mutual friendship.

¶1: Rights and responsibilities enforceable by procedures and penalties outlined in the Charter

A. Rights or A. You have the right: ... and begin each clause with the word "To" (Prim and Cerin prefer blue)
1. The right to post under one registered screen name if you are 13 years of age or older.

2. The right to create and register characters for use in the There and Back Again forum (a role-play forum). They must be recorded in the RP Character Registry. LINK

3. The right to post in our Thinking of England forum (a forum restricted to those who are 18 years of age or older) once you have met the eligibility requirements

4. The right to address personal disputes in the Bike Racks forum, and in other forums to post free of disruptions caused by the personal disputes of others. [Voronwe suggested enforceable; Cerin, Prim suggest unenforceable; item appears both places for now]

5. The right to post in languages other than English in threads, ranks or signature texts.

6. The right to post without confronting advertising spam, pornographic pictures, sexually explicit conversation outside of the age-restricted forum, and pictures or conversations of an offensively violent or distasteful nature.

7. The right to a Hearing if you are accused of violating the by-laws, the right to appeal a Hearing under certain circumstances, and the right to petition for the reversal of a ban under certain circumstances. You must abide by the decisions of our juries and use proper procedure when contesting the decisions of administrators or jurors. Refer to Article 4 of our Charter for a full explanation of your rights under any dispute procedure.

8. The right to petition the administrators for redress if you believe that your other rights have been violated. [Voronwe, Cerin suggest vote on inclusion and placement; Prim likes it here]

B. Responsibilities or B. You have the responsibility: ... and begin each clause with the word "To"(Prim and Cerin prefer blue)

9. The responsibility to provide a valid email address and to state truthfully your age for board access or entry into any forum with age restrictions.

10. The responsibility to refrain from personal attacks, intentional insults that target another member's nationality, ethnicity, religion, native language, gender, age or sexual orientation and to refrain from using a foreign language to conceal insults of this nature.

11. The responsibility to role-play in a way that does not prevent other characters from participating or unnecessarily stifle the creative options of other posters.

12. The responsibility to post prudently in the Thinking of England forum and not expose yourself to unnecessary harm. That forum should be free of ridicule, provocation, or demeaning posts and you should report violations to the administrators. You must also refrain from maliciously spreading information posted by others in that forum.

13. The responsibility to keep your posts free of gratuitous advertising, spam that would annoy any reasonable person, and pictures that would disgust or dismay any reasonable person.

14. The responsibility to take reasonable steps to ensure that your own computer is free of internet viruses. You may not deliberately or through negligence inflict damage on the board or the internet access of its members by hacking or deliberate introduction of viruses. [Voronwe, Prim suggest removal of first sentence; adding 'thru negligence' replaces 1st sentence]

15. PM capability should not be used to harrass other members of the board.

16. The board cannot be used to solicit or encourage the participation of members in illegal activities, but this does not impinge on your right to speak freely about the shortcomings, ethical or practical, of any given law.

17. You may not threaten real life violence or other criminal acts against other members.

¶2: Rights and responsibilities that rest on the determination of all members to keep Board77 a pleasant place for all to post but are not enforceable by procedures and penalties outlined in the Charter

18. The right to be treated with courtesy and respect by all posters regardless of their status, and the responsibility to treat others likewise.

19. The right to express your thoughts on any topic, no matter how controversial. All members should strive to Post with respect, forbearance and consideration for the context, the feelings of others, the value of contrasting viewpoints, and without making personal attacks against other posters. This is necessary for worthwhile conversation among adults. [several members want to remove phrae in first sentece and entire last sentence]

20. The right to use adult language that is generally acceptable in written media, along with the responsibility to refrain from unnecessary cursing or obscenities. We encourage everyone to use language that is clear and contributory (not spam or netspeak) without our having to restrict the expressions that are generally found in adult conversation.

21. The right to post free of disruptions caused by the personal disputes of others; and the right to address a personal dispute with another member in the Bike Racks forum if the other member agrees. You are also entitled to mediation. It is your responsibility to resolve your own personal disputes in a productive fashion, and not to interfere with other members who are doing the same. [enforceable or unenforceable? appears both places for now; Cerin suggests removal of phrase in blue]

22. The right to serve as an administrator, mediator or juror and to run for elected office. It is also your responsibility to participate in the governance of the board whether simply by voting when a quorum is needed, or by serving in some official capacity.

IdylleSeethes wrote:

I think the addition to the heading for ¶2 is necessary.

I withdraw my objection.

Jn, I was finding the structure annoying as well, perhaps because of the repetition.

Would it help to start it like this:

¶1: Rights and responsibilities enforceable by procedures and penalties outlined in the Charter

A. You have the right ...

1. ... to post under one registered screen name if you are 13 years of age or older.

2. ... to create and register characters for use in the There and Back Again forum (a role-play forum). They must be recorded in the RP Character Registry. LINK

3. ... to post in our Thinking of England forum (a forum restricted to those who are 18 years of age or older) once you have met the eligibility requirements


Also on 1 A 4, I think I suggested just the final clause be removed, not the whole item.

1 A 8, I did not suggest that this removed, it was text in a different #8 that I thought should be removed.

Sorry, Cerin! I did fix those two to reflect the suggestion you actually made.

I think there is other text that needs to be in blue because of suggestions that others have made. I'm perusing these threads right now to look for comments.

Jn

Jn, on further review, I DO think 4 should be completely removed from section A. I would also remove that first part from this provision as it appears in non-enforceables, thus omitting the highlighted portion:


21. The right to post free of disruptions caused by the personal disputes of others; and the right to address a personal dispute with another member in the Bike Racks forum if the other member agrees. You are also entitled to mediation. It is your responsibility to resolve your own personal disputes in a productive fashion, and not to interfere with other members who are doing the same. [enforceable or unenforceable? appears both places for now]


Having read through your draft more thoroughly, I really like the various simplifications you've proposed, and the re-numbering helps tremendously. It reads much better now, I think.

Thanks, Cerin. I'm putting your highlighted text in blue ... and still searching the other threads.

Jn

What about a rewording on the final three items to make them flow with the alternate suggested wording of the header (if that is approved). (No need, I think, to try and show this in the draft unless that alternate suggestion is approved, as that would be messy):


15. To refrain from using PM capability to harrass other members of the board.

16. To refrain from soliciting or encouraging the participation of members in illegal activities, but this does not impinge on your right to speak freely about the shortcomings, ethical or practical, of any given law.

17. To refrain from threatening real life violence or other criminal acts against other members.

In addition, number 16 should probably read (if this change is implemented) without the ",but", i.e., "To refrain from ... activities; this does not etc."

Let me wait until others comment on which of those two alternate wordings they prefer in general, because it would take too long to color code every clause for the alternate wording.

If people like the "To" construction, I'll change all of them without color coding.

Jn

I like this, too, Jn. I would go with "You have the right:" and "You have the responsibility:" both for brevity and because it places both on the reader, making the whole thing more direct and immediate.

I agree with Cerin on 4: that is an unenforceable unless the "disruption" grows into a violation of an enforceable right.

I suppose we should vote on 8, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to have a "catch-all" like this; there's not much potential for abuse, because it doesn't say the admins must call a hearing. People without legitimate complaints will get a polite brush-off.

I agree with Voronwe about the first sentence of 14. It's not enforceable, and it's not a disruption to the board unless a virus gets loose here. Once is an accident; if the same person causes this repeatedly because of being careless and after being warned and lectured, it could be argued that the introduction of yet another virus was "deliberate." Alternatively, we could say:

Quote:

14. You may not deliberately or through negligence inflict damage on the board or the internet access of its members by hacking or [delete: deliberate] introduction of viruses.

In 19, I would eliminate the words in blue.

I think 21 belongs in the unenforceables, as we don't compel people to carry disputes to the Bike Racks if they prefer another solution.

14. The responsibility to take reasonable steps to ensure that your own computer is free of internet viruses. You may not deliberately inflict damage on the board or the internet access of its members by hacking or deliberate introduction of viruses. [Voronwe suggests removal of first sentence]

I think the first sentence could be a responsibility in unenforceables, if people want to include it.

Possible re-wording for flow if first sentence is removed and alternate header is chosen:

14. To refrain from deliberately inflicting damage, etc.


18. The right to be treated with courtesy and respect by all posters regardless of their status and the responsibility to treat others likewise.

Add comma after 'status'.


19. The right to express one’s thoughts on any topic, no matter how controversial. Post with respect, forbearance and consideration for the context, the feelings of others, the value of contrasting viewpoints, and without making personal attacks against other posters. This is necessary for worthwhile conversation among adults.

The right to express 'your' thoughts, etc.?

Quote:

19. The right to express one’s thoughts on any topic, no matter how controversial. Post with respect, forbearance and consideration for the context, the feelings of others, the value of contrasting viewpoints, and without making personal attacks against other posters. This is necessary for worthwhile conversation among adults.

Possibly

19. ... controversial. You should strive (endeavor, etc.) to post with respect, etc.

or

19. ... controversial. All members should strive to post with respect, etc.

or

19. ... controversial. Endeavor to post with respect, etc.


20. The right to use adult language that is generally acceptable in written media, along with the responsibility to refrain from unnecessary cursing or obscenities. We encourage everyone to use language that is clear and contributory (not spam or netspeak) without our having to restrict the expressions that are generally found in adult conversation.

Possibly

20. The right to use adult language that is generally acceptable in written media or found in adult conversation, along with the responsibility, etc. We encourage ... (not spam or netspeak).

Cerin, I made the grammatical and punctuation changes you suggested.

Prim and Cerin, I personally agree with your opinions (or most of them) - that the "To" construction is more aesthetic, and that #14, 19, 21 should be edited as indicated. But it's only the three of us discussing this tonight, so let me wait to hear from a few more members before making the changes and taking out the color coding.

Let me offer arguments re #4 and #8.

#4 - Admins do have the power to split argumentative posts within a thread and send them to the Bike Racks. We may want to change the text of #4, but some short version of it should appear as enforceable, imo. The longer version does not have to be removed from ¶2 -- I rather like the admonition to handle conflict productively -- but it does not have to be there if you think having the same issue appear twice is redundant.

#8 - I think it rather important that the right to petition for redress appears, because members probably will read all of this article, and this tells them early on that they can lodge complaints, and who to complain to.