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VOTING OVER: Presenting Mission Statement to Membership

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Please choose between the following options:
I think we should present to the membership a yes or no poll on the text that is approved in the interim Mission Statement vote
  
75% [ 9 ]
I think we should present to the membership an IRV vote done by PM with the choices described in the first post of this thread.
  
25% [ 3 ]
Total votes: 12
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Mon 06 Jun , 2005 8:55 pm
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With 12 votes in we have a comfortable majority. I'm going to go ahead and start the ratification discussion thread since doing so today will enable us to open a day earlier then if I wait until tomorrow. :)


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Alatar
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Posted: Mon 06 Jun , 2005 10:57 pm
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I'm a little disappointed that these votes all seem to have been completed in the 36 hours I was missing. I've worked like hell to keep up with the vast number of threads on the mission statement issue. At Voronwe's request I stayed on when I wanted to walk away from it and now I wonder why I bothered.

I posted to say that I would be unavailable till tonight. I received mail stating that the votes would stay open for 36 hours or until everyone had voted. Now I find that the most contentious discussion so far was voted in my absence and closed and locked before I could vote. Furthermore I feel that this final vote has been structured in such a way as to be unsupportable by even those who requested it. I cannot in all conscience vote for something that I fully believe will not recieve a quorum vote and the version offered here will undoubtedly fail to do so.

What was requested was an A or B choice between either Sass's version or the Committee version. What is being offered is a 4 way IRV.

I'm very disappointed with this.

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Cerin
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Posted: Mon 06 Jun , 2005 11:30 pm
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Alatar

It was a three-way IRV. The reason for that was that it would have been unfair and very divisive to offer the committe compromise MS and a Tolkien MS and no non-Tolkien MS.


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Impenitent
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Posted: Tue 07 Jun , 2005 2:53 am
Try to stay perky
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Alatar, I understand your disappointment.

I also have reservations about the situation we're dealing with - MS we've ended up with is a lowest-common denominator compromise, the three-way IRV options are not terribly attractive either, and the possibility of getting a quorum with either option is not high, IMO.

I supported the desire to proceed though, because I really do want to get it over with and whatever the outcome, I think I can live with it. It's just words, when you come right down to it, and we will function perfectly well with the ones we've come to.

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Jnyusa
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Posted: Tue 07 Jun , 2005 5:12 am
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Alatar,

It has been a challenge from the beginning to balance the internet time of the committee members against the need to move efficiently through the work.

There have been some votes where people were excluded by the timing, and other votes where we waited and waited and people just never bothered to vote.

Neither Voronwe nor I has ever closed a vote when that last member's vote could potentially alter the results. In this case, we were down to the wire here, and if we didn't close the votes after 32-36 hours we would have delayed ratification by an entire week, delayed the opening to mid-July, and made a much larger number of people unhappy.

Cerin is right about MS options available to us for the design of the ratification vote. There is as much opposition to a Tolkien-centered MS as there is support for it. We could not possibly have offered the members only two options, and if three then four because there has to be a none-of-the-above.

Looking at the statement we ended up with, it is not a horse designed by a committee. It is quite nice, in my opinion, even though it is not the combo I voted for. :) We would unnecessarily jeopardize the quorum if we held a PM vote, and jeopardize the 2/3 needed if we offered alternate texts to the members. Then we would really have an angry mob on our hands.

If you look at the discussion thread in the B-forum, I am finding it possible to take suggestions from the members as long as they improve the sense without changing it. As long as everyone behaves reasonably, and we are careful in the kind of variations we give rein to, I think that the members will feel that we are ending up with the best possible compromise under the circumstances.

I am fond of chiding my closet-Stalinist friends that what is necessary for democracy is not people who are willing to hold elections but people who are willing to lose elections. Honoring the majority without trampling on the minority often means that the only thing you can distribute with absolute fairness is dissatisfaction. :)

Jn

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Tue 07 Jun , 2005 6:53 am
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Alatar, I'm really sorry that this has worked out this way, particularly after I encouraged you to stick with the committee.
Quote:
What was requested was an A or B choice between either Sass's version or the Committee version. What is being offered is a 4 way IRV.
Al, even setting aside the question of the need to have included a non-Tolkien-centric alternative if we had offered the membership Sassy suggestion, we still would have need to go with a 3 way IRV. We couldn't give the members an either or choice between two options without also giving them the opportunity to reject both of them.

I know you're disappointed by how this has worked out, and you have a right to be. But try to remember that we really are trying to do our best to balance competing concerns.


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Alatar
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Posted: Tue 07 Jun , 2005 8:22 am
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The only person who should be apologising here is me. I should never post when I'm tired or cranky. I know that the vote was complete and that my input would not have changed things, otherwise it would have been held open till I voted. I was being unreasonable and I apologise unreservedly.

I am guilty of exactly the motivations that I was previously accusing others of, namely, getting lost in the process and losing sight of the goal.

We have a Mission statement, key principles, goals, a structure for hearings and for running the board. We should be celebrating, not fighting.

Well Done Everyone!

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*Alandriel*
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Posted: Tue 07 Jun , 2005 10:57 am
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:D indeed! :clap:

Alandriel who suffered from a terrible bout of RL-itis
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truehobbit
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Posted: Tue 07 Jun , 2005 11:26 am
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Alatar - :hug: :love:

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
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Posted: Tue 07 Jun , 2005 6:17 pm
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Last edited by Voronwe_the_Faithful on Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:15 am; edited 40 times in total

I wonder if this is a record?

*click*


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